Boundaries Of Earthpower

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:32 pm

From the suru-pa-maerl thread, danlo forcibly got me to thinking about where the Earthpower reigned.

I ended up writing this about Earthpower not feeding past Landsdrop : * or not, wasn't Earthpower present in other places in The One Tree? How universal is Earthpower? Also c/f the Sunbane only making it as far as Landsdrop, is there contradiction there? New thread methinks. Will do.

Where does it start? Where does it end? How far does it go? Aren't the Elohim in some way very relevant to Earthpower?

Living forests (eg the ones with Forestals and forestal-predating thought of their own) seemed to only get to Landsrop.

The Sunbane only got to Landsdrop.

The beauty of the Land was only highly nurtured upwards of Landsdrop.

The Giants used Earthpower through their boats and the water, but only uphill from Landsdrop (though the availability of a safe waterway was only existent upwards anyway).

Was Earthpower truly only contained to 'the Land'. Landsdrop to Westron, Northern plains to Southron? What's the story?

Wasn't the One Tree, the Elohim, the Worm, all that, linked with Earthpower?

Perhaps Earthpower was a particular product of the Wurd.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:22 pm

Landwaster wrote:Wasn't the One Tree, the Elohim, the Worm, all that, linked with Earthpower?

I think you just answered your own question. Earthpower was probably everywhere. Is that the source of the hideous strength and abilities of the Sandgorgons?

As for the Land's boundaries, this is from Findail:

In the nigh-unremembered past of the place which you deem the Land, the life was not the life or men and women, but of trees. One wide forest of sentience and passion filled all the region - one mind and heart alive in every leaf and bough of every tree among the many myriad throngs and glory of the woods.

Sounds like the Land is all that the One Forest used to cover. Why Foul is so centered in the Land, so much so that he started his Sunbane there, I couldn't say.

Actually, I suspect Foul was all over the Earth. But he seems to have taken a special interest in the Land. Maybe he hated the One Forest, and wants to defile its corpse as much as he can. Plus make sure it can't come back.

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:30 pm

Hmmm yeah ok so Earthpower is pretty well everywhere, and the Land was more or less what was the reign of the One Forest.

Re Foul in the Land, perhaps it was because it was close to the only folk who bothered to oppose him. Mind you, that's circular. If he'd set up shop near Braithairealm, then they'd probably try to fight him off and the Lords of the Land would sit back sipping champers and wondering why they never had any challenges.

But the Land had Earthpower all through it, while the other examples were different manifestations. Maybe there is a difference between the Land and the rest of the world, maybe Earthpower was in some way more potent, present, accessible or relevant, there.

As you .say, maybe the One Forest was a particularly annoying neighbour for Foul. Maybe that was originally his greatest enemy. Maybe that's the one thing that knew he was a bad guy from Day 1, and the one thing he couldn't subvert through subterfuge.

Maybe the One Forest is another installed hope from the Creator. Perhaps it was translated to the Land in eons gone past, for the express purpose of resisting, and, perhaps, containing, the Despiser.

He paid it a lot of attention, so perhaps it was a particular threat to him. Even the Elohim were desperate to keep Foul's reach from doing damage to the Land (which was the realm of the One Forest).

It seems to me that maybe the Earthpower was closer to physical manifestation in the region of the Land, and perhaps even was tangibly manifested as the One Forest.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:36 pm

Excellent thoughts, Landwaster!! I'm not gonna argue even one of them!

You're on quite a roll tonight!! (OK, Today, for you.

)

But I just found out what "spiders" are yesterday. Now you're throwing "champers" at me???

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:54 pm

Champagne. My wife laughs at how we abbreviate everything. Brickie = bricklayer, bookie = bookmaker, etc.

Yep, its pretty intoxicating, this stuff. (Not the champers, the conversation)

Post by **Infelice** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:00 pm

If the One Forest, the Elohim, the Wurm and The One Tree are all manifestations of Earthpower, what was the idea behind having them all in different locations around the Earth?

Was it a strategic move on the part of the Creator to spread these manifestations around the Earth so they wouldn't all come directly in contact with Foul??

What purposes are served by having the Elohim, the One Tree and the Wurm located where they are??
I can see why the Wurm and The One Tree are isolated. If the Wurm is roused the KABLOOEY!!! thats the end of everything and its a good idea to keep The One Tree under wraps as well to avoid corruption, but why have the Elohim isolated waaaaayyyyy out in the middle of an ocean on a tiny little island. They are incarnations of Earthpower..... what purpose if any do they serve by being located there??

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:02 pm

My only guess re the Elohim is that they exercises their choice to locate themselves, rather than it being a result of a higher power.

They seem to be a spawn of Earthpower + consciousness.

Post by **Infelice** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:18 pm

Holy cow!!!!! How fast can you type!!!! You musta been sitting there hovering or something.

Yeah.... I had a think about it and agree with you about the Elohim exercising choice.

But why were they spawned???? What is their function??? Were they created as sacrificial lambs to be offered up each time the Land had a dire need??? (as in the cases of Findail and the Colossus???)

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:28 pm

I reckon their sacrifices are simply just something that comes with the territory. We have to die one day, too, but that's not our purpose. Still, Elohim are definitely difficult to get a handle on. Very confusing stuff.

I'd say their reasons for being spawned is simply nature, in that how everything that is created serves a purpose somewhere. I'm babbling.

Post by **Infelice** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:37 pm

And I'm pondering your babbling.

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:41 pm

They ARE sort of like Selleys No More Gaps, aren't they ... but they seem wise and joyous or at least contemplative while not being sacrificed for some need, so it seems they have a life until that time ... and not all of them seem to be used, although I suppose they are immortal so in a sense they will all be used eventually.

Post by **danlo** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:50 pm

The Case Against Elemesnedene NOT Being a Tiny Little Island:
(and other, hopefully, pertinent stuff)

Infelice wrote: "...but why have the Elohim isolated waaaaayyyyy out in the middle of an ocean on a tiny little island."

Ok I'll try to pose some answers to that question later. The real bone I have to pick is not against Infelice (who has refered to "The Land of the Elohim" at least twice as an island, btw...) but with everyone and anyone who thinks it's an island. As y'all may know from my "What if the Entire World in TCTC was Connected?" topics, and other various posts, the geography of the Land and it's world is my favorite pet subject. So after seeing Infelice's post I was compelled to speed-read the 1st 200 pages of The One Tree at work today. And no where can I find any instance of Elemesnedene actually described as an island.

I agree that Bareisle is a tiny little island in the middle of nowhere with curious similarities to the Collosus: composed of black stone resembling a "...stark straining fist of a drowner." But Bareisle only marks the boundary of the demense of the Elohim. As Starfare's Gem approaches the "Land of the Elohim" it is described as a "...jutting coast of mountians...(snip)...that spread as far away as the eye could see forming an impassable coast." When you look at the rendering of the entire Land of the Elohim in the front of the book it suggests huge mountians spreading even eastward of Elemesnedene, as well as north and south. The inference of a contigous coastline appears to be maintained all the way south to Bhrathairealm. Not many islands have fiords, but some do, and almost all large islands cannot support the type of huge mountian ranges implied.

I have always imagined Elemesnedene as part of a, for the most part, connected continent somewhat similar to Europe--but that said continent could be shaped completely different. I have always imagined Home
lying somewhere far northeast of Elemesnedene (possibly due to latent images of Vikings, who knows?) and the (alluded to) realms south of Bhrathairealm as somewhat analagous to Africa.

Okay with that off my chest what else have I learned or inferred from my reread? Well first of all there's no doubt that the Elohim are Earthpower incarnate trapped in their own paradox of "Power". And I agree that Elemesnedene may be a portal to a completly new dimension described as "The Center of the Earth." In fact it could be an a dimension within a dimension as Woodenwold itself is speculated to be a "thorp"...But yes the Elohim have decided to locate themselves as remote from the Land as possible and the reasons for this surpass me. My only speculations are that a.) the maidan may be an opening, or a "spring", to The Center of the Earth, as the Isle of The One Tree apprears to be. And b.) that the Land of the Elohim is directely juxtaposed to Andelian. Yes I agree that "b" is farfetched but this goes back to my theory that the Elohim are stars (or the original Children of the Rainbow) and that when they "deep travel" they appear in the Land as wraiths.

Are the Elohim essentially evil? No I think it's paradox all over again as shown by the contrast of Daphin and Chant. The "purity" of the Elohim has definately been compromised. And to take my "wraith" theory to it's extremes I believe that the Elohim who initially sense or lean towards the dark were, as wraiths during the Celebration of Spring, singed or eaten by ur-viles. That should be enough to get y'all chatting!

(for now...)

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:08 pm

I think that the EarthBlood, the One Tree, the Wurm, the One Forest, and the Elohim are all manifestations of Earthpower. Earthpower is not a single-state thing. It has variations, flux, change. Perhaps it can even be thought to evolve, but every new state of its being is contained in all the others, so none are lost.

And aside from mere form, consciousness is one of its variables. My list is perhaps lowest awareness/consciousness to hghest. Of course, there are many other manifestations that could be added, each landing somewhere in the spectrum of consciousness.

I imagine Earthpower's evolution can be self-occurring, or influenced by things outside of itself. The Haruchai may have brought about an entirely new manifestation of Earthpower when they took the Vow. I wonder where the Vow lies between EarthBlood and Elohim on the consciousness spectrum...

Post by **Landwaster** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:31 pm

I always saw Earthpower as being a much more present, prescient, active and powerful form of Mother Nature.

danlo, I agree with you, Elemesnedene is not an island. The home of its portal, Bareisle, IS an island, but the land of the Elohim itself is not.

But I don't think its a translation to another part of the world. I think it might be a little more like being William Hurt in a bathtub ... a conscious state of thought outside the physical confines of the cosmos. Superstring theory might be relevant here; Elemesnedene may simply be a parallel universe. C/f the negative-space-world in the novel "Spares", or even Freddy Krueger's nightmare world for that matter.

Its where we go in our subconscience, based on a hitherto unconfirmed form of measurement.

Elemesnedene may very well have been no more than that single little anthill in the start of the stream.

Maybe the Earthpower lives, breeds, and evolves there, in an other dimension.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:35 pm

Yes, maybe Elemesnedene is the Nexus of all Realities. Maybe it shares the same space with the Immanent Grove, and the swamp in Florida where the Manthing lives.

Post by **Landwaster** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:40 pm

Yeah, what you said

Maybe Elvis is there.

Post by **danlo** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:41 pm

LW I agree w/your conscious state of thought idea! The Elohim talked about it as The Center of the World, and most likely it was their "Center of the World". I could not envision them roaming around in the guts of the Worm.

BTW... Hurt was in an isolation tank not a bathtub theres a huge difference! I'd love to chat about that difference, if you're game...

Post by **Landwaster** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:52 pm

danlo wrote:BTW... Hurt was in an isolation tank not a bathtub theres a huge difference! I'd love to chat about that difference, if you're game...

I know, I just said that for my own personal amusement.

You'll see me deliberately oversimplify things a lot in my posts for personal glee. I often refer to the Tim Hutton movie "Iceman" as "the one about that cold bloke".

I'm a big fan of the Altered States.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:53 pm

*BIG aside*

The last scene in Altered States, where he's walking down the hall, banging on the walls while trying to remain (turn back to) human, was the model for parts of Aha's Take On Me video.

Post by **danlo** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:55 pm

I was left, by mistake, in an isolation tank 4 3 hours while the owners of the shop took one of their tanks to the premier of Altered States....that helps to explain not only my weirdness...but where I'm coming from!

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Boundaries Of Earthpower

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