Fatal Revenant, part 1 Chapter 12 - Transformations

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Fatal Revenant, part 1 Chapter 12 - Transformations

Post by Cameraman Jenn »

We ended the last chapter on a cliffhanger. What was "the truth?" We find out that Thomas Covenant is not actually Thomas Covenant but instead he is Roger Covenant and he has become a mortifying new breed of "halfhand." He has been given Kastenassen's very own right hand in place of his own. We also find that while Jeremiah is actually Jeremiah, he's still a slackjawed autistic but he's been animated by a croyel. Roger can't resist a little bragging and hurting so conversation ensues. Linden states that she realizes why they wouldn't let her touch them, why they refused to go to Andelain and why they wouldn't let her summon the Ranyhyn. Roger laughs and tells her that she brought this trip to the Earthblood upon herself by getting the staff and a statement about keeping her out of Andelain. Linden tries to probe for reasons as to why they don't want her in Andelain but the answer is avoided by Roger and then suddenly she is stabbed in the hand by Jeremiah. Roger then claims that they needed her along to keep the Elohim out of their plans. He then goes on to explain that bringiing her to the Earthblood is a win win situation for him and Lord Foul and that the Earthblood is not accessible in her true present so thus the time travel. He goes on to say that the time travel also opened multiple possibilities for Arch shattering. She risks the arch just by being in the past, they planned to wake the worm if they drank the earthblood first, and by leaving her there she can only get back by summoning a ceasure and that would shatter the Arch. He also tells her that they are gonna kill her anyway and wake the worm. She resolves to fight them. Roger says that Jeremiah is going to make a "door" and take them and Lord Foul into eternity and become gods. The fighting starts and Linden is almost overwhelmed but then sticks the staff in the earthblood and starts using the words of power taught to her by the Theomach and the earthquake that will rend the mountain is brought on prematurely. Roger and Jeremiah manage to get far enough ahead of Linded to open a portal and escape and Linden is washed away in a flood.

Wow. One thing that really bothers me about this chapter and I'm sure I'm being nitpicky is the descriptions of the conditions of Roger and Jeremiah's bodies. I went rounds with SRD on this. Roger's wounds are healed but crusted with blood. Jeremiah's wounds are not. His are festering and still BLEEDING. How can he be walking around the land for a couple of weeks with fatal gunshot wounds above his heart and in his stomach and not have bled out? How can his body NOT have died from gangrene or septic shock or whatever it's called when your stomach acid infects your blood stream? How much power can the croyel have if it's feeding off the life force of a guy who should by all rights be dead?

An important thing about this chapter that I would like to point out is that Jeremiah and Foul's connection has been brought very much into question. Linden wants to believe that Jeremiah has not gone over to the dark side and that he is strictly at the mercy of Foul and could not have consciously made the "pact" with the croyel and is therefore still a candidate for salvation. Roger comments later in the chapter that Jeremiah has been Foul's minion for years otherwise the Croyel could not have gotten access to his memories and abilities. This is what actually sparks off the battle. It will be interesting to see which theory is true.
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Re: Fatal Revenant, part 1 Chapter 12 - Transformations

Post by Menolly »

Nicely done, Jenn.
Cameraman Jenn wrote:Wow. One thing that really bothers me about this chapter and I'm sure I'm being nitpicky is the descriptions of the conditions of Roger and Jeremiah's bodies. I went rounds with SRD on this. Roger's wounds are healed but crusted with blood. Jeremiah's wounds are not. His are festering and still BLEEDING. How can he be walking around the land for a couple of weeks with fatal gunshot wounds above his heart and in his stomach and not have bled out? How can his body NOT have died from gangrene or septic shock or whatever it's called when your stomach acid infects your blood stream? How much power can the croyel have if it's feeding off the life force of a guy who should by all rights be dead?
I have nothing to back up how I have explained this to myself, but...
I have always pictured Jeremiah as still being in "limbo." Not fully materialized either in The Land or in Linden's world. So, perhaps he is also outside of "time" in a different sense, and the wounds remain.
Cameraman Jenn wrote:An important thing about this chapter that I would like to point out is that Jeremiah and Foul's connection has been brought very much into question. Linden wants to believe that Jeremiah has not gone over to the dark side and that he is strictly at the mercy of Foul and could not have consciously made the "pact" with the croyel and is therefore still a candidate for salvation. Roger comments later in the chapter that Jeremiah has been Foul's minion for years otherwise the Croyel could not have gotten access to his memories and abilities. This is what actually sparks off the battle. It will be interesting to see which theory is true.
I am still a member of OPAL. But, I'm with Linden on this. While I know SRD has said many a time that Jeremiah is not autistic, perhaps being the mother of a child on the autism spectrum colors my thoughts. There is an innocence in their outlook of the world. At this point I hionestly believe if Jeremiah made a pact with a croyel willingly, he was not aware of the full implications.
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Post by Cameraman Jenn »

That is a very interesting theory about Jeremiah and his wounds. It opens a whole new realm of possiblities for future events that must be thought about. If that is the case then how did the croyel get into him on another plane of existence? It would give more credence to Roger's story about Jeremiah being Foul's for years, perhaps he built a door for the croyel to enter the alternate plane. Hmmm.... How would that impact the croyel's powers? If his mere shade is that powerful then what is the physical manifestation capable of. Very interesting food for thought, Menolly. Roger mentioned the eternal plane, what if Jeremiah is actually physically already there????? 8O :P
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Post by lurch »

There is still mystery here at the end of the first section of Fatal Revenant,,mystery not solved. The Power of Command strips away Illusion , thus The Truth of the Illusion Masters is exposed, not defeated. More despair is heaped on Linden in their gloating but it comes down to,," we'll just kill you and drink anyway.." There it is plain and simple in its starkness, " we'll just kill you..." Pretty strong stuff. Not just driving her to despair, not mocking her,,not teasing her and f*cking with her mind anymore,,Just straight out,, " we'll just Kill You.." There is the Truth of The Illusion Masters. Be careful with what Illusions you put your faith in.

Yet Linden's reply is just as Strong stuff.." you have forgotten Who I Am.." This is THE, Surreal point. So, what is Linden?,,I ask that question with what, rather than with , who, because the answer is given in context of " what" rather than " who" by the author. At this point I suggest a read of the opening pages to the classic Surreal piece, " Nadja" by Andre Breton. Why The Author answers in the " what" can be found there.Linden is the( her) Staff of Law. Linden is Earthblood . Linden is Her Staff of Law and Earthblood combined. Linden is the 7 Words. Linden IS her Staff of Law, Earthblood and the 7 Words( suggest a review of Theomachs definition of the 7 Words) melded into , as One...in search for the answer to..What Have They Done To My Son? .....

And in so doing, the foundation of herself, the bedrock of Melunkurion Skyweir is torn asunder and rearranged completely. Great metaphor! Its not coincidence that the Skyweir and the Power Word Abatha are connected by the Word Melunkurion.

.Interesting is..that the author leaves the Mystery of Linden still with us by stating, " did not choose to be defeated"..Rather than stating that she chose " to be"..she chose, not to be. That is the Mystery of the 2nd part of FR and left open with the words spoken by the un-dead TC in the last pages. Linden is at ground zero here at the end of " 'lest you prove unable to serve me.." She has cast the Illusion Masters away from her. She has rearranged her foundation. She has chose,, "not to be",,quite the Transformation,, but what..she Is to be..remains a mystery,,A mystery is solved, but an even greater Mystery remains. She has proven unable to serve the despair of the Illusion Masters. But she still has to deal with the, " Victims and Enactors of Despite,,".

In this brutal chapter, the author's word smithy is kept to a minimum. The antique English is sparse. But the Brutal and Stark Truth of the Illusion Masters is sharp as a vipers mouth and Lindens perception altering Rage is at mass and volume any of us can only dream of. Shes rid herself of the Lies and found herself to be a void as a result. The stream is carrying her tho.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Thanks, Jenn!

Menolly, what is OPAL?

This chapter, entitled "Transformations" might have been more appropriately entitled "Revelation" as we learn so much that remained unanswered over the past book and a half. Roger! That explains everything, his nasty attitude and profanity, his disdain for Linden's friends, and his treatment of Anele. But the most brilliant revelation - the coup de grace - was Jeremiah under the control of a croyel. I didn't see that coming AT ALL. I love moments like this, when a story turns my world upside down. And the imagery there - the croyel wrapped around Jeremiah with its teeth in Jeremiahs neck - WOW, what a great description. Hats off to SRD for this great "OH SHIT!" moment.
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Post by Menolly »

dlbpharmd wrote:Menolly, what is OPAL?
~Lyr's "holy order."

OPAL

...perhaps I should add that to my signature as well...
dlbpharmd wrote:But the most brilliant revelation - the coup de grace - was Jeremiah under the control of a croyel. I didn't see that coming AT ALL. I love moments like this, when a story turns my world upside down. And the imagery there - the croyel wrapped around Jeremiah with its teeth in Jeremiahs neck - WOW, what a great description. Hats off to SRD for this great "OH SHIT!" moment.
I had forgotten I had discussed this with Jenn privately, not where others could read it. I told her the exact same thing. I had deduced "TC" was Roger after his first talk with Linden in Revlestone; but I never saw the croyel coming...
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Post by lurch »

I think the close resemblance of the Croyel to a Vampire is metaphoric goodness. In a previous chapter dissect, I suggested Jeremiah as an Artist. The way the author put it was that his talent was building constructs that could transport people..with the cut throat,,and make prisons for the Elohim, thrown in for good social commentary measure. Art is meant to transport people..and the know it all snobs can become imprisoned by it rather than liberated by it. ..So, Jeremiahs open wounds,, the Croyel sucking his lifeblood..reminds me of Bob Dylan's " All Along The Watch Tower.."Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."....Yes, it will be interesting on what kind of Fate the author bestows on the vampirish Croyel. A wooden stake thru its heart?Perhaps the " in shapes as ready as knives" Viles will surgically remove the Croyel?
AAAH!.. an Artist..or the Artist in us all,, as an isolated, in his own world, helpless child...Works for me.
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
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Post by Relayer »

Interesting stuff! The condition of Jeremiah's wounds puzzles me too. And you actually "went rounds" with SRD on this, Jenn!! ;-) I don't understand the significance of the wounds, but I can understand how Jere can survive... the croyel can keep him alive just as it did Kasreyn.

And what a revelation! Many of us knew or suspected Roger, but the croyel came totally out of nowhere.

A few other questions:

- What's the relevance or purpose of the croyel stabbing Linden in the hand? Simply to distract Linden's question about Andelain? It seems to be more than that.

- Roger says "Foul has promised to take us with him.... But even if Foul tries to cheat us..." -- this implies a lot. Somehow, Roger knows enough to not trust Foul. There may come a time when this alliance falls apart; when people may choose new sides. It's quite likely Foul will end up cheating any or all of his allies once they've fulfilled their usefulness.

Gap comment:
Spoiler
(remember the shifting alliances in the Gap series, and how masterfully SRD wove the various characters motivations).
- Roger also says "There's more, of course, but I won't bother you with it." -- echoing what Foul said in ROTE. What other plans do they have, beyond breaking the Arch to get out?

- And: "Then we could Command the Worm to wake up."
Spoiler
Oops, Linden will do it for him. How psyched is he going to be with the events at the end of FR?
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Post by SoulBiter »

Relayer wrote:- What's the relevance or purpose of the croyel stabbing Linden in the hand? Simply to distract Linden's question about Andelain? It seems to be more than that
Perhaps it was a way to show Linden that although he is her 'child' that the croyel has full control and can make him hurt her. Kind of like Kasreyn showed his control over TC and made him hurt Linden just to show that he had full control. Perhaps this is just a croyal trait that they have a 'need' to show total control.
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Post by wayfriend »

Hi Jenn. Hi everyone. Better late than never, right? Right?!?!

I think it's apropos that Jenn got to do these two chapters back to back. The one and the other fit together inextricably.

:!!!: Preparing notes for this chapter, I reread the end of the previous one. And I noticed something important.
With the full force of the Power of Command, she demanded of her companions, "Show me the truth!"
She demanded of her companions. She didn't command the Earth itself, or Truth itself. She commanded her companions. And that is why the only Truth Linden is shown is the truth about Roger and Jeremiah. This has always bugged me, as I thought she should have gotten more for her One Swig. But now I see why she got what she got, no more, no less.

Equally unfortunately, she said "Show" and not "Tell". We can't be sure if anything Roger said is the truth or a lie. It's just the admission of someone caught out, and it's as likely to be covering up further falsehood to limit the damage as it is a caught-in-the-act sort of guilty confession.

(I wonder if this fact MIGHT bear somewhat on the appearance of Jeremiah's wounds. It may be that this is the way that Linden is "shown" that Jeremiah's wounds are still, literally, threatening his life somehow. Then again, if Truth includes Metaphor, then we'd have to interpret everything Linden is shown as a potential metaphor. ... And I'll leave it to lurch to tell me if Truth encompasses Metaphor, or if Metaphor is antithetical to Truth.)

:!!!: Regarding the title of the Chapter:
dlbpharmd wrote:This chapter, entitled "Transformations" might have been more appropriately entitled "Revelation" as we learn so much that remained unanswered over the past book and a half. Roger!
Looking for the inevitable dual purpose to the chapter title, I cannot help but notice that (a) Roger and Jeremiah are visibly transformed as their illusion is dropped; (b) Melenkurion Skyweir is transformed by an earthquake that splits it from pinnacle to root; (c) The Staff of Law is transformed by the battle, it is blackened; (d) Kastenessen, the chapter says, "had turned Roger into an entirely new kind of halfhand," which is transformation.

And finally, (e) Linden has been transformed in this chapter. They have done this to my son! Linden's transformation is described more fully in the next chapter, so I won't say more about it here.

Oh, and yes: Roger, you bastard!

:!!!: Someone now needs to compile a list of all the clues that it was Roger all along, clues that we couldn't really talk about earlier in the dissection. Some of them, looking back on them, were really good.

:!!!: Another mystery is closed.
Cameraman Jenn wrote:We find out that Thomas Covenant is not actually Thomas Covenant but instead he is Roger Covenant and he has become a mortifying new breed of "halfhand."
The answer is: Roger. Yes, Roger is the Halfhand that the Elohim warned everyone about.

How could we have guessed? We had no clues. And a lesson on Donaldson is given to us: when he is faking to the left and faking to the right with ambiguity, leaving us to think we know the choices if not the answer, he surprises us with an attack from left field. Ambiguity as misdirection.

I call it the "Z Factor" - when Donaldson has you wondering if it's A or B, he hits you with Z. Of course I expect him to use it again.

:?: Regarding Jeremiah's "status":
Menolly wrote:I have always pictured Jeremiah as still being in "limbo." Not fully materialized either in The Land or in Linden's world. So, perhaps he is also outside of "time" in a different sense, and the wounds remain.
This chapter makes it clear that Jeremiah died in the real world. He had died in his natural world. Like Linden: like Joan. He would never be
freed from the Land.
Nothing less than the Power of Command has shown us this. He now exists in solely in the Land, but also he is free now to become something larger and more transcendental than he has ever been before.

Again, there is another possibility here for his mysterious leaking wounds. He's not really human any more. He's beyond human, or at least he could become beyond human at some point. Perhaps his leaking wounds are something like Joan's pounding ... an expression of something inside himself, perhaps something that he cannot communicate. His wounds may be a magical manifestation of internal dilemmas.

:!!!: There's a mention of the Runes horserite in this chapter.
In [u]The Runes of the Earth[/u] was wrote:And with that knowledge, they caused her to experience what was being done to her son. ... she saw Jeremiah's plight as Hyn and Hynyn wished her to see it: as if he were simultaneously herself occupied by a Raver and Thomas Covenant lost in the stasis imposed by the Elohim. ... she reached - or would reach - into him with her health-sense, seeking the place where his mind still lived. ... when she reached out to Covenant and Jeremiah, trying to restore them with herself, the Worm of the World's End squirmed from Covenant's mouth, and her son's dear face seemed to break open and become vile, bitter as Despite.
And now the vision in the horserite has come to pass.
Still her son was effectively possessed. The Ranyhyn had done what they could to forewarn her.
We are left gasping with the question, what will come to pass if Linden reaches into Jeremiah to free him?

A clue to this question is contained in one of Rogers assertions:
Foul has promised to take us with him. And he'll keep that promise. He needs your kid. Hell, he owns him. How else do you suppose the croyel got access to everything your kid knows, everything he can do? He's belonged to Foul for years.
Here we are introduced to the idea that Jeremiah may not be an innocent victim of Foul. That he may, in fact, have chosen Foul over Linden. If so, then he may not be willing to be freed from Foul. Linden may unleash who knows what danger if she tries to pry him from Foul's sway.

Donaldson reminds of this recently in the GI.
In the Gradual Interview was wrote:Why do you suppose Linden is so obsessed with whether or not Jeremiah has indeed been "claimed" by the Despiser? Where do his hidden loyalties actually lie? Is he the croyel's victim or the croyel's partner? This is crucial.

(10/11/2008)
:?: Andelain is discussed several times in this chapter.
Relayer wrote:What's the relevance or purpose of the croyel stabbing Linden in the hand? Simply to distract Linden's question about Andelain? It seems to be more than that.
Probably. Andelain is pretty important.
"For one thing, you brought this on yourself. All of it. If you hadn't gone to get that damn Staff - and if you hadn't told Esmer you wanted to visit Andelain - nothing that's happened since would have been necessary. You forced us to intervene. Once you had the Staff, we had to keep you out of Andelain."
This whole trip into the past was provoked because Linden and the Staff arriving in Andelain threatens Roger's and Foul's plans. Roger let's this slip, and then refuses to say anything more about Andelain. When Linden asks, again, "What was so important about keeping me away from Andelain?", Roger stabs her hand. When Linden recovers, Roger changes the subject.

I think I have a good guess what it is that they fear Linden will do.
Spoiler
What we discover at the end of the book that she did do.
At one point, someone wondered what her reason for going to Andelain was. This is the answer. If I was Linden, I'd want to go to Andelain real bad now. If for no other reason than the knowledge that Foul and Roger fear her doing so.
:?: One thing is pounded home in this chapter again and again. It is the croyel that has the volition, not Jeremiah. Roger and the croyel plot. Roger and the croyel act. Not Jeremiah.
... Roger and the croyel had feared her health-sense.

... And then he had counterbalanced his aid by opposing the ur-viles when they had tried to prevent Roger and the croyel from snatching her out of her natural present.

... "I tried to talk you into it. The croyel thinks I should have tried harder.
But I knew you wouldn't do it. You love power too much."

... If she survived Roger's and the croyels intentions, any untainted application of Earthpower would heal her.

... "The croyel and I have other plans. Foul has promised to take us with him."

... Then she drew lightning as pure as charged sunlight from the upraised iron heel of the Staff and hurled it simultaneously at both Roger and the croyel.

... Swift as prescience, the croyel emitted a vehement wall which blocked and dispersed Linden's blow.

... Roger and the croyel did not strike at her now: they fought to preserve
themselves.
It's not just in the expository speach ... in Linden's thoughts, and indeed even in Donaldson's narrative, the croyel does all the thinking and doing. Not Jeremiah.

He may be Foul's, he may not be. But he's certainly a passive passenger in this chapter. He's a body that the croyel rides like a horse.

So we need to ask, then: whose power does the croyel weild? Now, battling Linden ... and earlier, when Jeremiah built the "door".

The croyel, it is noted, can "steal into her sons mind" for information. But can it also steal power? I think the answer lies in lore. Lore is knowledge, and can be stolen. And Jeremiah's power is surely not based in lore, any more than Linden's is. But what about an innate, uncommunicable power?

Can Jeremiah be a helpless bystander and while his possessor weilds power at the same time? Or is the simpler explanation that the croyel has the power, and Jeremiah's power is all a lie? I think the question is a good one because the croyel may not be as versatile at possession as Linden is, or as Ravers are.

:!!!: Anyone notice that Roger makes a classic evil overlord mistake? Instead of killing Linden, he pauses to explain himself to her. And then Linden escapes, and with the knowledge stupidly admitted (e.g. Andelain), uses it against Roger to defeat him.

:!!!: Aiming his fist at her, he unleashed a scend of fire and lava.

scend, noun: the forward impulse imparted by the motion of a sea against a vessel. Related to the words ascend and descend.

Roger unleashed a wave of fire and lava.
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Post by wayfriend »

Forgot to add:
"I'm sure that's fascinating," she said through her teeth. "You'll enjoy it. But there are a few things you don't understand."

His eyes widened in amusement; false surprise. "Like what?"

Linden bowed her head as though she intended to prostrate herself. Past the concealment of her hair, she muttered. "Like who I am."

Then she drew lightning as pure as charged sunlight from the upraised iron heel of the Staff and hurled it simultaneously at both Roger and the croyel.
Great moment. Great line! Now that's a hero. Gotta keep that part in the movie ...
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Post by Mortice Root »

Totally agree, wayfriend. And this reminds me of one of my favorite lines in the Last Chrons so far, also from this chapter. (I'm going from memory here, so forgive me if I screw it up :) )
But she was Linden Avery, and she did not choose to be defeated.

I remember reading this and slowly setting the book down, with a huge smile on my face, and just pausing, thinking, before resuming reading. That line produces an incredible emotional release of all the tension that had been building. It, also, is a great "hero moment", while at the same time, increasing the force in the narrative.

The more I think about it, the more I'm drawn to SRD's use of the word "choose" here. For me, this recalls other works of his (Killing Stroke) where the choice is the important thing. Linden triumphs here not becuase she is stronger in raw power (though she may be) but because she is stronger in character. She refuses to loose. She is beginning to achieve control over herself, more knoweldge of herself (more earned knoweldge) with which she is able to achieve her immeadiate goal.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Roger is the Halfhand that the Elohim warned everyone about.


I disagree. The Elohim began to warn the Ramen and the people of the Land about the halfhand years before Linden and Roger came to the Land, before Kastenessen gave his hand to Roger. I think the halfhand is either Jeremiah or the one true Thomas Covenant.

Also, it's hard for me to understand how a whole Elohim hand, exchanged for Roger's, is a "halfhand."
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Post by Relayer »

dlbpharmd wrote:
Roger is the Halfhand that the Elohim warned everyone about.

I disagree. The Elohim began to warn the Ramen and the people of the Land about the halfhand years before Linden and Roger came to the Land, before Kastenessen gave his hand to Roger. I think the halfhand is either Jeremiah or the one true Thomas Covenant.

Also, it's hard for me to understand how a whole Elohim hand, exchanged for Roger's, is a "halfhand."
I'm ambivalent about this one. On the one hand (pun intended), Roger is a halfhand via his impersonation of TC.

On the other hand, the fact that the Elohim make it so cryptic leaves it open to interpretation. They could've said "beware of one who says he's Thomas Covenant" or "one who looks like a teenager" or "the arrogant Haruchai" but they didn't. Of course, this really means: Donaldson is intentionally creating misdirection again. It could be as simple as he meant Roger... or not. As Wayfriend said, "the Z factor."
Linden bowed her head as though she intended to prostrate herself. Past the concealment of her hair, she muttered. "Like who I am."
Yep, great moment! And, yep, major evil overlord mistake ;)
Foul has promised to take us with him. And he'll keep that promise. He needs your kid. Hell, he owns him. How else do you suppose the croyel got access to everything your kid knows, everything he can do? He's belonged to Foul for years.
Here we are introduced to the idea that Jeremiah may not be an innocent victim of Foul. That he may, in fact, have chosen Foul over Linden. If so, then he may not be willing to be freed from Foul. Linden may unleash who knows what danger if she tries to pry him from Foul's sway.
Again, too many factors at play. Did Jeremiah fall to Foul during his time at the Community of Retribution? (before the events of TWL). Did he know Roger? Did he fall in with the Communities' teachings, or reject them? He could be a willing partner, or it could be that Foul has "owned him" without his approval. To me, "owned" implies a lack of choice on Jere's part... or more precisely, a choice made unwillingly. Maybe Foul had some leverage on Jeremiah thru his mother or Linden or something.
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Post by Cameraman Jenn »

Interesting points everyone. This is certainly a pivital chapter and gives us a lot to think about. Wayfriend, it's Jeremiah who does the stabbing of Linden's hand. I think it is important because it shows to a slight degree that her guard is down with Jeremiah even though he's got a croyel riding him. SHE still thinks of him as Jeremiah.
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Post by wayfriend »

dlbpharmd wrote:
Roger is the Halfhand that the Elohim warned everyone about.
I disagree. The Elohim began to warn the Ramen and the people of the Land about the halfhand years before Linden and Roger came to the Land, before Kastenessen gave his hand to Roger. I think the halfhand is either Jeremiah or the one true Thomas Covenant.

Also, it's hard for me to understand how a whole Elohim hand, exchanged for Roger's, is a "halfhand."
I would not naturally conclude that Roger is a half-hand, except Donaldson has gone out of his way to tell us so.
In [u]Fatal Revenant[/u] was wrote:Kastenessen had severed his own right hand and given it to Roger Covenant. He had granted Roger the magic to conceal himself from her percipience; had turned Roger into an entirely new kind of halfhand.

... "But even if that doesn't work - if we can't kill you, which doesn't seem very plausible under the circumstances, you're still stuck here." His halfhand blazed, casting familiar embers into his eyes.

[In the next chapter]
Spoiler
"Ah." The Mahdoubt nodded in recognition. "Assuredly. That chicane arose from the halfhand's portion of the nature of the Elohim. The Elohim are not hampered by mortal distastes. With the cursed gift of such a hand, your betrayer received both the power of glamour, of seeming, and the capacity to set aside his revulsion for the goodly health of the Land.

.. "We keep coming back to the Theomach and the Elohim," Linden said at once. An Elohim had given warning of the croyel as well as the halfhand.
Certainly we are to think of Roger as a halfhand. And I can only conclude that we are meant to believe that this is the answer to the Elohims' warnings. But I admit this could also be a red herring on top of a red herring.
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Post by Aleksandr »

I have always pictured Jeremiah as still being in "limbo." Not fully materialized either in The Land or in Linden's world. So, perhaps he is also outside of "time" in a different sense, and the wounds remain.
Like Jean I found Jeremiah's wounds troubling. How has he stayed alive, why has no one healed him as Roger has been healed? Your suggestion has some merit in expalining this. He's stuck between worlds somehow. His mind is partly missing in the Real World, and his body is not fully engaged in the Land.
Another secondary issue here: why is Linden not far more frantic about those injuries? Granted the croyel is a huge shock, but those wounds are directly life-threatening and her physicians training should be fully aroused by their presence.
Spoiler
Even later in the story she wastes no thoughts on her son's physical wounds.
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Re: Fatal Revenant, part 1 Chapter 12 - Transformations

Post by thewormoftheworld'send »

Cameraman Jenn wrote:We ended the last chapter on a cliffhanger. What was "the truth?" We find out that Thomas Covenant is not actually Thomas Covenant but instead he is Roger Covenant and he has become a mortifying new breed of "halfhand." He has been given Kastenassen's very own right hand in place of his own. We also find that while Jeremiah is actually Jeremiah, he's still a slackjawed autistic but he's been animated by a croyel. Roger can't resist a little bragging and hurting so conversation ensues.
It's not quite so simple. While I'm certain Roger could be considered a braggart on his best days and a hurtful person on his worst, his goal was to allow Linden to build up her power again after the first attack failed against the two. The goal is always to manipulate Linden (or TC in past chrons) into using more power.
When is it not?
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Post by thewormoftheworld'send »

Cameraman Jenn wrote:Interesting points everyone. This is certainly a pivital chapter and gives us a lot to think about. Wayfriend, it's Jeremiah who does the stabbing of Linden's hand. I think it is important because it shows to a slight degree that her guard is down with Jeremiah even though he's got a croyel riding him. SHE still thinks of him as Jeremiah.
So Jeremiah would be the logical choice to do the hand stabbing, but it doesn't tell why stab Linden's hand and why stab that particular hand - the one wielding the SoL. You realize of course that Linden was, for a short time after, unable to let go of the SoL. And by the time she had healed her hand with Earthpower it was too late, her use of power had increased so significantly that there was no turning away from it. Linden is welded to the use of her power, and this is exactly what LF wants.
Tales of a Warrior-Prophet has gone Live on Amazon KDP Vella! I'm very excited to offer the first three chapters for free. Please comment, review and rate, and of course Follow to receive more episodes. Two hundred free tokens may be available for purchases. https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/episode/B09YQQYMKH

Read my Whachichun Tatanka (White Buffalo) Blog: https://www.blogger.com/blog/posts/8175040473578337186
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Post by wayfriend »

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:How has he stayed alive, why has no one healed him as Roger has been healed?
For the effect that it would have on Linden.
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:Linden is welded to the use of her power, and this is exactly what LF wants.
That could not be helped. Just as Covenant is the white gold, Linden is the Staff. Intimacy and use make it so.

Hey.

Covenant is the white gold, and white gold is wild magic, and wild magic is the keystone of the Arch: Covenant has become the keystone of the Arch.

Linden is the Staff of Law, the Staff of Law is Law and Earthpower, and Law and Earthpower are the foundations of the Earth: Can Linden become the foundation of the Earth?
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