The original Fatal Revenant

[shadowbinding shoe]

The plot resolution for the Demondim in Fatal Revenant makes me think Donaldson changed directions while he wrote the book. It was built into a big deal in the previous book and then resolved off screen in 10 seconds to introduce a new character which belong to a new race we never heard of before.

What was Donaldson's original plan for Fatal Revenant? A deeper exploration of the viles and the demondim?

[wayfriend]

If you look at Reading Runes: There’s No Sex in Your Violence and other threads, you can see that no one thought that the Demondim in Runes were really ever much of a threat.

I have a feeling that the history is critical to the story. But not so much their appearing.

It seems rather clear that Linden will be heading into the Lost Deeps to recover Jeremiah. Everything about the Viles and the Demondim will come into play then.

I'm also hoping that there's salvation for the ur-viles somewhere ahead.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I'm also hoping that there's salvation for the ur-viles somewhere ahead.

I'm thinking that once their manacles have been put into use (Ravers) the ur-Viles will have completed their Wuird (sp?) and validated their existence.

Vain was their achievement of perfection.
The Manacles are the righting of all past wrongs done by their kind.
Then they will be redeemed and free.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

I think the manacles are intended for Kasty, not the Ravers.

dw

[High Lord Tolkien]

I think the manacles are intended for Kasty, not the Ravers.

dw

It's possible but they have a longer history with the Ravers.
It seems odd to me that they would be involved with him.
Also, what the heck are "manacles" anyway?
The Ur-Viles are creations, Vain was a creation but he was also "alive" or a individual being.
Anyone think that Manacles could be a name of a similar sentient ur-vile creation?
Much like Vain: an ur-Vile Appointed if you will?

[shadowbinding shoe]

If you look at Reading Runes: There’s No Sex in Your Violence and other threads, you can see that no one thought that the Demondim in Runes were really ever much of a threat.

Yes I read that thread (good posts) but you were talking about the action in general in the last chronicles there. The Demondim were made a big deal out of by the characters even if they never did much in the end. They are powerful and unbeatable enough to equal the old lords. Linden fears that they would be able to undo her staff.

Their offscreen disappearance looks very much like Donaldson changing his mind about the plot in Fatal Revenant. Maybe he was just trying to cut down on the number of pages in the book and decided to get rid of the Demondim, maybe they were too ephemeral to describe well, or maybe he wanted to concentrate on a new race (insequent). He couldn't erase their appearance from Runes since it was already published, but he could get rid of them as fast as possible in this book

[High Lord Tolkien]

Yes I read that thread (good posts) but you were talking about the action in general in the last chronicles there. The Demondim were made a big deal out of by the characters even if they never did much in the end. They are powerful and unbeatable enough to equal the old lords. Linden fears that they would be able to undo her staff.

I think what you just described is the EXACT impression that SRD was trying to convey.
They were undone or defeated by a different type of knowledge or power that we we're familiar with.
I think it was to prepare us for Jeremiah's powers.
If Linden had blasted the Demondim with Earthpower, failed like the Old Lords and then saved the day with some extravagant WM exertion....what then? What would that have proved or shown us?
I LOVED the fact that the Harrow knew just how to "pull the string" to unravel the Demondim.
It was actually one of the best WTF moments in the series, right up there with "Nom" to me.

[wayfriend]

If you look at Reading Runes: There’s No Sex in Your Violence and other threads, you can see that no one thought that the Demondim in Runes were really ever much of a threat.

Yes I read that thread (good posts) but you were talking about the action in general in the last chronicles there. The Demondim were made a big deal out of by the characters even if they never did much in the end. They are powerful and unbeatable enough to equal the old lords. Linden fears that they would be able to undo her staff.

Yet, it was noted when talking about Runes that the Demondim seemed to be some sort of gimick to maneuver Linden to Revelstone. In Fatal, we see that that is true. And once the gimick is accomplished, they don't really have further purpose.

So I don't think Donaldson changed his mind. I think the Demondim were always a thin device in the plot, coming and going.

Probably there's a point, more important than the Demondim, in how they were destroyed. Things, once made, can be easily unmade, if you know the secret. If you consider that the Earth was also made, this leaves you to wonder, what secret would unbind it with trivial ease? One thing about Donaldson is that he demonstrates his mechanisms in small ways before he uses it in the big way. I feel sure that the Harrows mysterious powers will be important again -- they are going to the Lost Deep, after all, and who knows what they will find down there?

[thewormoftheworld'send]

The plot resolution for the Demondim in Fatal Revenant makes me think Donaldson changed directions while he wrote the book. It was built into a big deal in the previous book and then resolved off screen in 10 seconds to introduce a new character which belong to a new race we never heard of before.

What was Donaldson's original plan for Fatal Revenant? A deeper exploration of the viles and the demondim?

I don't see it. If you treat this as a story and not a series of books the illusion of changing directions vanishes. SRD has a way of making things vanish when he no longer needs them for the story. The purpose for the Demondim being there is no longer relevant to the story.

My reading of the entire Demondim incident tells me that they were concealing some intent and their method involved misdirection. But their purpose for the charade remains hidden, is possibly unimportant, and only they (or SRD) can tell you what it was.

SRD is a master of the art of misdirection.

[IrrationalSanity]

I think the manacles are intended for Kasty, not the Ravers.

dw

(Spoilering, just in case)

Spoiler

Well, depending on how truthful he was being at the time, they're probably intended for Roger. Before he was revealed for who/what he was, and he was pretending to be TC, Linden had asked him who the manacles were for. His response was, IIRC, "Oh, they're for me."

Almost an off-hand remark, as if it were unimportant, but SRD isn't prone to throw-away lines.