Should Lucas embelish Episodes IV,V & VI any further?

[aTOMiC]

One of the more controversial moves by George Lucas has been to enhance his previous work with groundbreaking special effects. There were many that decried his efforts as near blasphemy akin to Da Vinci making changes to the Mona Lisa. I tried to view the Special Edition versions of Star Wars, Empire and Jedi with an open mind on the subject. My first impression was to leave well enough alone but after the release of Episode I, I've begun to rethink things a bit. The entire story as a whole may very well be served by embellishments that smooth over the rough spots dictated by a lack of technology while making the first films. What is even more intriguing is the notion promoted by a rumor that whole scenes may have been created to be edited into the original films to add continuity to the story as a whole. In particular a scene on Alderaan involving Bail Organa Leia’s adopted father. Since there have been rumors that the long awaited release of the first three films on dvd is close at hand, I have been trying to imagine what the entire saga might be like with all of Lucas’ pieces thrown down into this rather complex and ever changing puzzle.

Do any of you think George is like a hot rod mechanic that can’t stop tinkering with his tricked out 69 corvette, or do you support the idea of making substantial changes to a time honored classic in order to support Lucas’ attempt to realize his ultimate vision?

[Theo]

I don't know about blasphemy, but all the tinkering so far has only made things worse. It's pretty depressing that Lucas apparently has no respect for his old work in itself and doesn't intend to ever make the original versions of the movies available again.

I read a list of the changes Lucas would rumouredly make to the upcoming DVD editions of the old movies. Thankfully, the list was obviously bogus - it was too outrageous to be possible. I can try to dig it up if anyone's interested, it's been floating about the web here and there lately.

Personally, I think Lucas really can't do good Star Wars stuff anymore - so the less he tinkers with anything SW, the better. For the record, I don't like the new movies either.

Theo

[aTOMiC]

I don't know about blasphemy, but all the tinkering so far has only made things worse. It's pretty depressing that Lucas apparently has no respect for his old work in itself and doesn't intend to ever make the original versions of the movies available again.

I read a list of the changes Lucas would rumouredly make to the upcoming DVD editions of the old movies. Thankfully, the list was obviously bogus - it was too outrageous to be possible. I can try to dig it up if anyone's interested, it's been floating about the web here and there lately.

Personally, I think Lucas really can't do good Star Wars stuff anymore - so the less he tinkers with anything SW, the better. For the record, I don't like the new movies either.

Theo

I suppose it is possible that the new vd release may include an original version.
I for one would like to read what changes might be made, even if its probably inacurrate. If you find that list I'd love to see it.

[CovenantJr]

Hmmm, I don't have anything against the special editions, but I think that's as far as I'd like to see it taken. Lobbing new scenes in all over the place is daft. The first three films are done, IMO it would be wise to leave them alone. There has been a marked change in style between the first trilogy and the second. Previously it was mostly high adventure, whereas the more recent films seem more thoughtful and brooding. Or at least, they should be thoughtful and brooding, but they often seem forced. In short, nice concepts, execution could be better.

[[Syl]]

Three words... Greedo shoots first.

[aTOMiC]

Three words... Greedo shoots first.

Great point, Syl.

[Theo]

I suppose it is possible that the new vd release may include an original version.

You'd think so, but it ain't gonna happen. Lucas has gone on record repeatedly as saying the original versions are gonna be buried forever. I read he even refused to show the original unimproved Star Wars at some local historical film festival as an example of a great movie of the 70s. I guess he thinks they're embarassing.

Here's the link to that story: www.dailytrojan.com/article.do?issue=/V ... s.34d.html

I for one would like to read what changes might be made, even if its probably inacurrate. If you find that list I'd love to see it.

Right. I'll start digging and get back to you.

Theo

[Theo]

Found it. This was posted on RPGNet, but it's at least a third-hand rumor and the guy who posted it there doesn't believe it himself. I don't believe it for a second either. Still, it's good for a laugh.

This Is Probably BS But I Thought I Would Share It With All The Star Wars Fans Here
It was sent to me by someone who was sent it by someone else...


I make no claims to its authenticity...


George Lucas Refilimg Scenes of Original Star Wars Trilogy
>
>
>I found this on The John Byrne Message Boards:
>
>
>Episode IV: A New Hope
>
>01. The Imperial March has been added to Darth Vader's first appearance on
>Princess Leia's ship.
>02. When Obi-Wan is talking to Luke about his father Anakin's Theme plays
>in the background and then it turns into the Imperial March as he talks
>about Vader.
>03. The lightsaber effects have been redone and the frame jumps of
>lightsabers being turned on has been removed.
>04. There's a new scene which has been shot during the filming of Episode
>III in which the Emperor dissolves the Senate.
>05. In the Cantina, the Duros(green aliens guys) have been replaced with
>Neimoidians and some aliens from the prequels have been added.
>06. The bleeding arm on the floor in the Cantina has been replaced with a
>non-bleeding arm because it's now canon that lightsabers cauterize wounds.
>07. The original shooting scene between Han and Greedo has been restored.
>08. Jabba the Hutt has been given a makeover and Han no longer steps on
>his tale.
>09. In place of R2 wobbling down the stairs to the Falcon's hangar, a CG
>R2 navigating the stairs like he does in Attack of the Clones was added.
>10. The white boxes around space ships have been removed and new CG shots
>have been added.
>11. The scene of the Falcon being chased by the two Star Destroyers was
>modified. The Falcon now does spinning moves, avoiding the Star
>Destroyers' fire.
>12. When the Death Star destroys Alderaan there's a new scene of Yoda's
>reaction to the disturbance in the Force that is created by all those
>deaths and then it cuts to Obi-Wan reacting to it as well.
>13. The Dianoga has gotten a CG makeover and were are now able to see more
>of the creature.
>14. The Death Star's paneling and computers have been slightly altered to
>show similar displays to those in the prequels.
>15. The words "Tractor Beam" with Aurebesh lettering.
>16. More stormtroopers have been added to the Death Star.
>17. Temuera Morrison's voice is being recorded for use with all the
>stormtroopers.
>18. The Obi-Wan/Vader duel has been spruced up. It is much more epic and
>there is much more movement. A modified version of Duel of the Fates is
>being considered for the scene.
>19. The Death Star plans that are taken from R2 have been updated. When
>the Rebels are reviewing the Death Star plans they look similar to the
>plans we see in Attack of the Clones.
>20. The Death Star battle is much more epic with more Tie Fighters and
>more Rebels being blown to bits. We get to see old Naboo starfighters
>being used by the Rebels.
>21. There's a new scene(shot during Episode III) where Darth Vader goes to
>Coruscant and lands his ship in the same building Count Dooku does at the
>end of Attack of the Clones. Except now the building is all fixed up and
>it is now Palpatine's palace. He meets with Palpatine to ask for
>forgiveness for his failure and inform him of a new potential who is
>strong in the Force.
>22. Chewbacca now gets a medal.
>
>Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
>
>01. The taun-tauns are now CG.
>02. The battle of Hoth is much more epic. We see the Imperial ships land
>on Hoth and release AT-ATs. The AT-ATs have been sped up a bit. There's a
>ground battle between the Rebel soldiers and stormtroopers featuring new
>ships and vehicles.
>03. Temuera Morrison's voice is being recorded for the older Boba Fett and
>all the stormtroopers.
>04. The white boxes around space ships have been removed.
>05. The slug monster is CG.
>06. Ian McDiarmid has refilmed scenes as the Emperor. The conversations
>between Vader and Palpatine is now longer and features a few connections
>to the prequels.
>07. Yoda's face is now animated in CG allowing more _expression of
>emotions yet his movements remain the same. Also two deleted scenes
>featuring Yoda instructing Luke have been restored.
>08. A new scene was shot in which the stormtroopers, after they capture
>Han, Leia and Chewie, bring Vader the box containing C-3PO in pieces.
>Vader orders the stormtroopers to bring the broken droid to Chewbacca's
>cell so that he can fix him.
>09. The lightsaber effects have been redone in certain parts.
>10. Luke's fall from Cloud City has been reshot against bluescreen using a
>stuntman.
>
>Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
>
>01. Jabba the Hutt is now a combination of the puppet and CG.
>02. The Rancor is CG and looks disgusting as ever.
>03. Yoda is CG. Yoda disappears leaving his clothes behind like Obi-Wan
>now.
>04. The ewoks are now mostly CG and there are a lot more of them.
>05. The plan is to insert the love theme Across the Stars when Luke is
>talking with Leia about their mother.
>06. Temuera Morrison's like before is now the voice for Boba Fett and all
>the stormtroopers.
>07. In the battle of Endor there are thousands of Ewoks and they are more
>vicious than there midgets-in-suits counterparts. More bite the dust now.
>08. White boxes around ships removed.
>09. The black blotches around Palpatine's face are gone.
>10. Some of the lightsaber effects have been redone. The shadows that the
>lightsabers made on the floor are gone.
>11. During Anakin's death scene it starts with a sad rendition of the
>Imperial March and slowly evolves into Anakin's Theme.
>12. Sebastion Shaw who played Anakin when he was unmasked has been
>replaced with Hayden Christenson in make-up to make him look older. Anakin
>has much more dialogue. He apologizes for the destruction he caused, he
>thanks his son for turning him back to the light, he tells his son to
>rebuild the Jedi and he says he loves him and his sister. Just before he
>dies he says, "It is finished...".
>13. We see more planets celebrating at the end of the movie. We see an
>aged Jar Jar, who is now the leader of the Gungans, on Naboo celebrating
>with the people of Naboo and the Gungans. We see an old Watto, who is now
>unable to fly, sitting in a hover chair cheering on Tatooine. During these
>scenes Across the Stars plays transitioning to the victory celebration
>music at the Ewok tree village.
>14. Anakin's spirit is now played by Hayden Christenson with make-up to
>make him look his age. He looks on proudly at his son Luke with the spirit
>of Padme by his side.

[/url]

[aTOMiC]

I read he even refused to show the original unimproved Star Wars at some local historical film festival as an example of a great movie of the 70s. I guess he thinks they're embarassing.

I'd find it really easy to believe that.

Theo, Thank you very much for rounding up that list. It is a jaw dropper for certain. Holy Cow!! They have got to be kidding. I don't see how they'd be willing to do a fraction of the items listed. If it were true a fortune would have to be applied to the release of the dvds.

Very entertaining stuff in any event.

[Seafoam Understone]

*steps up on a soap box* ahem...uhh... I'll put up my two (mebbe fo bits) on this subject.

Answer to the original question is NO. Lucas went so far off topic in the first and second episode that it's clear that he did NOT originally write the 4th episode "A New Hope" to my understanding Alan Dean Foster wrote the original premise and sold it to Lucas. Lucas got big and famous with it and Foster was paid (under the table) not to claim credit. He has since been allowed to write two stories related to the saga.

There were far too many clues in A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back about the backgrounds of Anakin Skywalker and the first two episodes does not even cover any of them.

Lucas' interviews in early fanzine mags clearly indicated which way he wanted to go with the backstories and then now... totally way off base.

I have been working on another book in mind as a narrative written by Obi-wan Kenobi about the truth of the saga and Anakin Skywalker.

Example: In episode 4 Obi-wan tells Luke that Anakin was "the best starpilot in the galaxy, he was a cunning warrior...and a good friend.
Episode one shows Anakin as a little kid, a slave and totally green about warrior ways and warfare. Obi-wan didn't even meet him til the end.
Episode 2 now shows the relationship as teacher/student and that's it. I derived nothing that shows a "good friendship".

Conclusion: From Obi-wan's description Anankin was about the same age as Obi-wan when they first met. Anakin was probably a pilot/soldier for the Naboo navy/army/airforce...whatever! Thus also putting him at about the same age of Queen Amadala <sic> which would make better sense no? Anankin and Obi-wan meet in a social setting and serve a couple of missions together in the Clone wars and thus can support what Obi-wan says about him in the fourth episode.

I can go on... ESB Obi-wan gives further clues: (paraphrased...sorry) "When I first met Anankin he was already a great pilot, what struck me was he was strong in the force. I took it upon myself to train him.

Where the hell does Qui-gon-Ginn come in? No relation what-so-ever!

I say a pox on the first and second episodes because Lucas doesn't even seem to care... he created a widdle annie so that widdle kids can want and bug the crap out of their parents to buy this toy and that toy which he has a marketing stake in.
Oh and PLEASE SOMEONE SHOOT JAR JAR BINKS!!! arrrgh!

ahem.. thank you for your time
*steps off the soapbox

[CovenantJr]

Nicely said, Seafoam *ripple of light applause*

[aTOMiC]

he did NOT originally write the 4th episode "A New Hope"[/b] to my understanding Alan Dean Foster wrote the original premise and sold it to Lucas. Lucas got big and famous with it and Foster was paid (under the table) not to claim credit. He has since been allowed to write two stories related to the saga.

Example: In episode 4 Obi-wan tells Luke that Anakin was "the best starpilot in the galaxy, he was a cunning warrior...and a good friend.
"When I first met Anankin he was already a great pilot, what struck me was he was strong in the force. I took it upon myself to train him.

Where the hell does Qui-gon-Ginn come in? No relation what-so-ever!

First I'd like to state that Alan Dean Foster's "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" was one of my favorite books in high school.

Second, given what we had all been told in Episode V and then treated to in Episode I, I had drawn the logical conclusion that Obi-wan and Yoda were both filthy liars.

[Seafoam Understone]

clearfrontier wrote:Second, given what we had all been told in Episode V and then treated to in Episode I, I had drawn the logical conclusion that Obi-wan and Yoda were both filthy liars.

Oh yeah, and from what Theo posted on the "speculated"changes in the episodes IV, V & VI... if it is true (I understand theo that you were just passing it along)... then it has all the marks of Lucas and company trying to make it look like they had the original story all along. Throwing in Naboo fighters during the original Death Star battle and the second one? C'MON!!

Dang it all I'm gonna have to write the book and find a rouge publisher to get it out into the market.

I've got friends of mine so enamored of Eps. 1 and 2 that every argument that I gave them about the conflicts in story lines he had an argument for.
Then he pulls out that Obi-wan line from ESB :many of the truths we cling to depend upon our point of view. Oh boy! Well geez maybe my point of view is pretty warped, but I DO recall Ben Kenobi in the snow-blind vision of Luke on Hoth in ESB telling him: You will go to Dagobah system, there you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master that taught me...." Hmmm Enter Gui-gonn Jinn... like I said where did THIS guy come from

I L-O-V-E-D Starwars when it came out, watched it 24 times in the theaters during it's run... Read every Fanzine I could get my hands on about it. Waited breathlessly for ESB and RoTJ and cheered when fans made Lucas change the title from Revenge to Return.
Then silence... now Episodes 1 (and 2) and it's totally fooo-barred man.
Any wonder I'm pissed?

Now I will SAY this positive note. The movement of the empire and it's growth... that is pretty much aligned with the "pre-history" I read a long long time ago in a bedroom far far away (as a kid).

SIGH Mesa thinks I'ma gonna ignore this thread... it gets me blood pressure up... whoo!!

[Worm of Despite]

I can do a near-perfect Jar Jar Binks voice.

Bah, forget Star Wars and read Dune, everyone. George Lucas did me a favor and slaughtered his own hog!

[kastenessen]

I am of the opinion that George Lucas never had a grand scheme and vision...I mean I really love the movies and considers "The Empire ..." his best to date and of course he has visions...but I feel he made SW and discovered this might be something to build a sequel on. He never had more than SW in his mind when he made it. It wasn't called Episode IV when it was released, not even "A new hope" if I recall right... I make this presumption on that SW is such a singular work and it may easily stand alone as a single piece...

Then came the sequels where he tried to glue everything together so everything would look smooth, so you would accept them as sequels...and later the prequels when his "vision" to be fulfilled creates even more problems(the friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan and so on and all other inconsistensies which I can't recall at this moment). No, he makes things up as he goes along and the years pass...

But the are great movies and it is a great saga which could have been better(Ewoks...arghhh, Jar-Jar Binks...URGH!)... episode I is truly annoying and Episode II is a whole lot better though a bit oversimplifying in acting but every image is beatiful and exciting and I actually like the complex script, I mean it tries meticulously to explain all characters motifs and all the action that later will take place in IV, V, VI...again he tries very hard to make it to a wholesome, flawless 6 movies...so it wouldn't surprise me if he will tinker with EIV, EV, EVI...there never will be a definitive version of these movies....

...so the list you've presented Theo I guess is written by a SW fan or by several who knows his/their saga inside-out...the list consists of typical stuff hardcore fans debate..."why didn't he think of this and that?", and so on...

[aTOMiC]

I can do a near-perfect Jar Jar Binks voice.

Bah, forget Star Wars and read Dune, everyone. George Lucas did me a favor and slaughtered his own hog!

I've read Dune. Very cool. You'd have to admit there isn't anything in the Dune series that equates to the character dynamic of Luke, Leia and Han. Those three idiots yelling at each other was what made the first three films more than just sci fi eye candy. Its like Kirk, Spock and McCoy. You can't duplicate that kind of interaction easily. That is why most other incarnations of Star Trek seem to fail and thats the glaring omission to the first two Star Wars Episodes. There is plenty to look at but do you really care about what is happening without being drawn in my the characters?

Foul, What the heck was the name you went by while you were pretending to be a freind of Kevin Landwaster? Hmmm?

[Worm of Despite]

I wasn't expecting a Luke/Leia/Han thing when I picked up Dune, and I'm glad it's not that kind of book. It tackles deeper stuff and overall makes Star Wars a children's book in comparison. And I'm guessing that's why the world ate Star Wars up: it was so simplistic.