Elena's discovery

[Rocksister]

Okay, I did a search of the forums to avoid posting a previous topic here, so if I missed something, ignore me please. I'm re-reading (X 12) The Illearth War (and all other books) in an attempt to get all the details in my brain of the currently-released books before the next one comes out in 2010 and ran across a passage before I had never paid any attention to. Elena and Covenant are on their way to the Earthblood (although at this time they don't know that's what they were going to find yet) and she makes this statement to him:

"Thomas Covenant, I believe that there is immeasurable strength in the comsummation of despair - strength beyond all conceiving by an unholocausted soul."

The secret of the Ritual of Desecration, spoken aloud but not recognized. Its power was felt by the Bloodguard at the realization of what they had allowed to happen by leaving Kevin. By Thomas Covenant over what he had done to Lena, and before that, by what happened to him in the real world. And ultimately by Trell, who was so far gone mentally and emotionally that despair was all he had left, and he unleashed it. But none of them recognized it for what it was, until Mhoram, who put the pieces together. I'm sure the rest of you noticed that passage the first time you read it, but I never saw it until now. I've got to start paying attention; no telling what else I've missed.

[hearthrall antonicus]

Youre not alone in not recognizing that statement! Geez, I ve never noticed it before either Rocksister! Now I gotta reread it myself. It does seem to be THE key to the R of D. Simple, no instruction manual needed. Just let all your feelings go...and give into the raw emotion of despair. Good one!---------------------------H

[Earthfriend]

Except, of course, that Elena was horribly, tragically wrong.

I always read that comment of Elena's as a hint at what her true purpose in seeking the Earthblood was - the resurrection of Kevin. (You are right Rocksister, in that they didn't know what the Earthblood was at the time, but the author did.) It also helped, for me, to explain why Elena was so enraptured by Kevin.

Then she drinks the Earthblood, summons Kevin based upon her belief that he will now have immeasurable power having consummated his despair, and learns her folly. You can't out-despair the Despiser. He will always win that game.

[Black Asgard]

I did notice that, but I took it as a kind of foreshadowing that Elena was going to give into a Ritual of Desecration--I didn't see her bringing Kevin back until right before she actually did it. Nor did I see her--or the staff--being lost.

The second reading of the first chronicles instilled in me that deep sense of satisfaction in knowing that Donaldson is a master puppeteer, and he has all of the strings laid out before us; it's just that he's so good we don't even see where the strings lead until he's already got them around out throat. Yes.

[Rocksister]

Yea, but she had the Staff, and she had the RoD idea still warm on her lips, and she could have done it all herself without needing Kevin or anyone else, that is my point. She, like everyone else, saw "through" it, and "around" it, but they never saw it head on, until Mhoram had the vision that fed him the answer. It just seems such a revelation to me. But then again, I'm not that sharp to start with. Giggity giggity...........

[soft one]

I believe Elena thought she could 'master' Kevin since she posessed the staff, although 'master' isn't really the right word. Maybe she thought Kevin would recognize her position and help with his other Wards. No matter what she thought, her thoughts were not from a stable foundation, so her actions were ultimately doomed no matter what she did.

[Earthfriend]

"Thomas Covenant, I believe that there is immeasurable strength in the comsummation of despair - strength beyond all conceiving by an unholocausted soul."

I keep coming back to this line you quoted, Rocksister, and your original premise that it contains the secret of Desecration. I'm just finishing WGW again, and it has led me to view Elena's belief in a new light.

I think where Elena makes her mistake is that she equates Kevin's completion of the Ritual as a 'consummation of Despair'. It is not, in my opinion. The ritual is the ultimate expression of Despair, a surrender to it, as Trell discovers when he releases his own Ritual, preffering to destroy the Stone he loves, rather than leave it to the Despiser's touch.

The Ritual of itself holds no power to thwart Lord Foul - it is an expression of Despite, and therefore will forever serve his ends, regardless of who wields it. Gaining a victory at any cost, (especially to oneself,) is no victory at all. I think that is what Mhoram is trying to say in TPTP, when he lectures Lord Amatin on the strictures of their duty as defenders of the Land:

"We are not the Creators of the Earth. Its final end is not on our heads. We are creations, like the Land itself. We are accountable for nothing but the purity of our service. When we have given our best wisdom and our utterest strength to the defence of the Land, then no voice can raise accusations against us. Life or death, good or ill - victory or destruction - we are not required to solve these riddles. Let the Creator answer for the doom of his own creation."

[SGuilfoyle1966]

Ahhh, Mhoram. Always has the right thing to say.

[mickywalker]

Remember Eleanor had participated in the horse rite
this gave her a insight into loss and betrayal but the deep wisdom that they wanted her to see was that what saved the great horses was the simple service and love of the raman?

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Remember Eleanor had participated in the horse rite
this gave her a insight into loss and betrayal but the deep wisdom that they wanted her to see was that what saved the great horses was the simple service and love of the raman?

Is that like...when Saul became Paul, or Abram became Abraham?

[wayfriend]

"Thomas Covenant, I believe that there is immeasurable strength in the comsummation of despair - strength beyond all conceiving by an unholocausted soul."

The secret of the Ritual of Desecration, spoken aloud but not recognized.

I agree with you. Elena almost has it right, almost discovers what Mhoram discovers.

It's a masterful bit of misdirection on Donaldson's part. The reader is led to make the same error as Elena herself. By putting the emphasis on which emotion unlocks immeasurable strength, Elena reaches the wrong conclusions, and so perhaps do we.

We know what Elena's Achille's heel is. It's her comsuming hatred of Foul.

This mistake, then, is how her tragic flaw becomes catastrophe. Her view is colored by hatred of Foul, and so she overvalues Kevin's actions. She recognizes that the power to enact the Ritual came from despair. But rather than use this knowledge constructively, to create a new vision, she retreads the same path, tries to one-up Kevin: if his despair was so powerful then, how much more powerful would it be now that he failed? To her mind, Kevin came so close that she was sure he was on the right path: the answer had to be further down that path. Her vision is so filled with ending Foul that she doesn't consider alternatives.

She created that marrowmeld sculpture, did she not? Conclusive proof that she was close to the secret, perhaps even knew the secret unconsciously. Of course Donaldson dropped hints.

[jonnyredleader]

I think thats close to spot on. she unconsciously or consciously moulded covenant and bannor, the two faces of passion and control, the secret to the old lords use of the power and the reason the new lords failed to unlock this.
passion and emotion uncontrolled leads to desecration and destruction as in kevin Trell and Elenas case.
Control without emotion or passion is impotent as the lords with their oath of peace have found. The secret Elena uncovered and Mhoram discovered was to balance them both, the paradox. Thats how Mhoram unleashed his power against the raver and why he abandoned the lore of the old lords (a decision which was partly to blame for the sunbanes arrival)

[Orlion]

passion and emotion uncontrolled leads to desecration and destruction as in kevin Trell and Elenas case.

I was about to disagree with this, but it turns out I might be in the same camp There's one thing all these people have in common: they knew what they were about to do. Kevin knew he was about to destroy the Land, Trell knew he was destroying Revelstone, and I'm sure Elena knew she was doing something unprecedented. Why did they do this? Because they couldn't let Foul win. Foul is a master at putting people into a corner, and when faced with a 'certain' victory for Foul, these people decided passionately that it'd be better to destroy some things then to let Foul win. It's kinda like a basketball team blowing up the stadium when the opposing team is about to win

[jonnyredleader]

we've all been there, passion is blind. emotions are designed to make you take action without thinking. In psychology this is defined as the instinctive brain, who acts rationally when they are in love or angry?
who has ever fallen in love and acted in a way that they knew was destructive to themselves but still couldnt help it? its being human and we learn to control this with experience, this is how covenant learned from Elenas mistake. She was after all the product of his violent passion.