Where did THAT expression come from?

Post by **lorin** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:33 am

Example
Saved by the bell
Saved by the Bell came from graveyard bells in England during medieval times. People were dying in great numbers from disease, so there was a rush to bury them before disease spread. However, some people did not die, but only fell into comas, and when a person revived in the middle of a funeral, people started to take notice that this may be the case. Special bell ringing devices were put above graves so the buried person, if they revived, could bring help to unearth them.

where did the expression Trench Mouth come from?

50 of my WGD's to the person that can answer!

Post by **Savor Dam** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:15 am

Trench Mouth is so named because it was a common malady among the soldiers fighting in the trenches of the First World War (War to End All Wars, right...)

By the way, much as I appreciated the sad gypsy girl, I welcome the return of this avatar.

Post by **Orlion** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:18 am

I would assume that it describes a disease of the mouth (possibly like gingervitis) common among english soldiers in the trenches of World War I. Like Trench Foot, only of the mouth

I wonder if they had Trench Hand...

edit:Dang! Foiled again by Savor Dam!

Post by **lorin** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:28 am

nope........

wrong........heh heh, nobody gets my WGD yet.

research, research

Savor Dam wrote: By the way, much as I appreciated the sad gypsy girl, I welcome the return of this avatar.

thanks, SD. I guess she was kind of a downer.

Post by **Savor Dam** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:29 am

Well, I did some research before my initial submission. What I found were multiple sources that just reinforced my flash response that the name's etymology traced to the prevalence of the disease among troop in the protracted trench warfare of World War I. Most of these sources were the "usual suspects" of Wikipedia, HealthCentral and other online information aggregations of that ilk, but the uniform nature of the answer I got -- and that it agreed with my preconceived notion of the answer -- seemed sufficient.

After having that answer rejected by Lorin, I dug deeper (after all, I profess a penchant for pedantry)...but have not found a substantially different backstory for how the disease came to be called "Trench Mouth." What I have found is a Time magazine story from 1932 that notes that there were then a growing number of cases being reported across the country and provides some more information on the history of the malady:

Article 'Medicine: Trench Mouth' in the April 18, 1932 issue of Time wrote:Xenophon, ancient Greek general, noted that many of his men had sore mouths and foul breaths. World War troops had the same. Dr. H. Jean Vincent discovered the cause long before the War when he was a French army surgeon with Colonial troops in Africa. Although Dr. Hugo Karl Plaut of Hamburg two years earlier (in 1894) reported the same cause, credit for discovery goes to Dr. Vincent. The disease is called variously Vincent's angina, trench mouth, ulcerated stomatitis, necrotic gingivitis.

This still does not attribute the name to anything other than the WWI epidemic among Doughboys. If there is another explanation, knowledge of it is extremely obscure. I'm looking forward to a non-apocryphal explanation of the real source of the name.

Kudos to Lorin for a tough question!

Post by **lorin** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:16 pm

Sigh........I had a different explanation but wish I had did a snopes on it. yikes!

you are right

ok, gimme one. Clearly I need to work on my research skills.

Post by **StevieG** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:37 am

"Hair of the dog" always baffled me. I think I know now...

Post by **wayfriend** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:01 pm

The origins of "the whole nine yards" is apparently a mystery. There are others that are equally so, I hear.

Post by **Orlion** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:04 am

wayfriend wrote:The origins of "the whole nine yards" is apparently a mystery. There are others that are equally so, I hear.

I use to know where that came from (or a plausible explanation anyway

)!

Post by **drew** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:37 am

On the Wagon

Post by **SleeplessOne** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:24 am

StevieG wrote:"Hair of the dog" always baffled me. I think I know now...

not sure where that one originated, but i do know that the full saying is 'Hair of the Dog that bit me' ...

Post by **lorin** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:24 am

StevieG wrote:"Hair of the dog" always baffled me. I think I know now...

The origin of the phrase is literal, and comes from an erroneous method of treatment of a rabid dog bite by placing hair from the dog in the bite wound.[1] The use of the phrase as a metaphor for a hangover treatment dates back to the time of William Shakespeare. Ebenezer Cobham Brewer writes in the Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1898): "In Scotland it is a popular belief that a few hairs of the dog that bit you applied to the wound will prevent evil consequences. Applied to drinks, it means, if overnight you have indulged too freely, take a glass of the same wine next morning to soothe the nerves. 'If this dog do you bite, soon as out of your bed, take a hair of the tail in the morning.'"

good one! since we are on the subject of dogs...............
dog days of summer

Post by **StevieG** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:44 pm

It's not really a term I use - but this is what I got

From Wikipedia

The term "Dog Days" was used by the Greeks (see, e.g., Aristotle's Physics, 199a2), as well as the ancient Romans (who called these days caniculares dies (days of the dogs)) after Sirius (the "Dog Star", in Latin Canicula), the brightest star in the heavens besides the Sun. The dog days of summer are also called canicular days.

The Dog Days originally were the days when Sirius, the Dog Star, rose just before or at the same time as sunrise (heliacal rising), which is no longer true, owing to precession of the equinoxes. The Romans sacrificed a brown dog at the beginning of the Dog Days to appease the rage of Sirius, believing that the star was the cause of the hot, sultry weather.

Dog Days were popularly believed to be an evil time "when the seas boiled, wine turned sour, dogs grew mad, and all creatures became languid, causing to man burning fevers, hysterics, and phrensies" according to Brady’s Clavis Calendarium, 1813.[citation needed][page needed]

How bout "Mad as a hatter"

Post by **wayfriend** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:02 pm

"Mad as a hatter" is an allusion to Alice in Wonderland, I would guess.

Post by **drew** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:10 am

I've heard that there were chemicals that hat makers used (to shine the hats?) that caused some mental dysfunction.

Post by **lorin** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:11 am

and yet another translation
According to A Dictionary of Common Fallacies (1980), "'mad' meant 'venomous' and 'hatter' is a corruption of 'adder', or viper, so that the phrase 'mad as an atter' originally meant 'as venomous as a viper'."[3]

though I tend to doubt this one, its interesting.

Post by **wayfriend** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:55 pm

drew wrote:I've heard that there were chemicals that hat makers used (to shine the hats?) that caused some mental dysfunction.

Yes, it could be that the Mad Hatter was an allusion to "mad as a hatter" instead.

Post by **drew** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:05 pm

the saying I don't like is:
Have your cake and eat it too.

I've heard that if references Marie Antoinette's "Let them Eat Cake" . But that doesn't make much sense.

IT SHOULD be "Eat your cake and Have it too" -because you can't have it after you eat it.

Post by **Cheval** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:54 am

I've heard the same about Marie Antoinette saying that.
But I read that the term "cake" back then refered to bread.
So the saying says that the poor should be happy about having just bread to eat.

Post by **sgt.null** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:32 pm

mad as a hatter comes from mercury used in hat making.

throwing out the baby with the bathwater anyone?

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