Moderators: dlbpharmd, High Lord Tolkien
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Added:Lord Kevin and Longwrath caught in shouting match:
Each one claims their version of "Slay her" is better.
] There were a number of opinions, as you might imagine. My speculation was that, since Longwrath is mad, and obsessed, the sight of a woman weilding power, who also happens to have white-gold, on his path: in his addled state he can't distinquish one from the other [I also speculate: the skurj were unaware of the Giants, then suddenly for unknown reasons they were; Kastenessen used the skurj to herd the Giants towards Linden, to intentionally send mad Longwrath to her.]matrixman wrote:On the other hand, if Linden wasn't Longwrath's target, then why did he try so hard to get into Andelain where she was? (Unless Joan was somehow lurking in there without anyone noticing...)
I was not a part of that discussion referred to, so don't know if that question has already been worked over and its carcass buried.
That's an interesting thought! It could also be that the skurj aren't really aware of the Giants, but do sense the various powers of Linden/staff/ring, Liand/orcrest, Anele, Masters, ... but this makes sense. Kastenessen would know where Linden is and it would be easy to do.Vraith wrote:[I also speculate: the skurj were unaware of the Giants, then suddenly for unknown reasons they were; Kastenessen used the skurj to herd the Giants towards Linden, to intentionally send mad Longwrath to her.]
Heh...the quality of the idea is fine....I just really REALLY hope your wrong.Ur Dead wrote: Or it maybe Kevin has caused Longwrath's madness and was trying throught the Giant to stop what Kevin though was a Desecration.
As above this may be the crimes that Bereks speaks of. The dead influencing the living.
Why not? That would make it interesting. Especially if Loric could get hold of his krill again and make it DO something for once. Berek with the new Staff of Law... Kevin creating another Desecration...Vraith wrote: I don't want ANY of these dead damn Lords influencing events [except of course when they meet people and say things like in Andelain now...that's ok...just don't want any dead-Lord "Kingpins."
Those things could be fun to see [especially Loric and Mhoram for me]...but I have a prejudice against the "Everything good, real, true, important, powerful, yada yada...is Ancient" fantasy arc...I don't mind them as supporting cast, just don't want them be prime movers.MrKABC wrote:Why not? That would make it interesting. Especially if Loric could get hold of his krill again and make it DO something for once. Berek with the new Staff of Law... Kevin creating another Desecration...Vraith wrote: I don't want ANY of these dead damn Lords influencing events [except of course when they meet people and say things like in Andelain now...that's ok...just don't want any dead-Lord "Kingpins."
Hmmm... many things of interest could happen!
And be honest, wouldn't you like to see High Lord Mhoram riding to victory one last time?
As the Arch begins to crumble the distance between worlds begins to decrease, making travel between the "real" world and the Land far easier.Aleksandr wrote:How long has Joan been in the Land? We are led to think that she summoned just moments before Linden was, but maybe not? She's been catatonic for a long, long time. Was she brought over (by whom and how?) back when she first started bashing her forehead in the mental hospital?
And I still think Jeremiah too may have been in the Land for a long while also, accounting for his pseudo-autism in his own world. My original speculation is that the Ur-Viles grabbed him back at the beginning of the 2nd Chrons, during the sacrifice (maybe they were trying for Linden instead, then discovered Lord Foul wanted her) and this is why Foul turned against them in WGW, since it's never explicitly stated, except as Linden's guess, that Vain was the reason for his anger with them.
Yes, I remember the scene you're talking about with C-Jeremiah.Vraith wrote:We have a hint [though it's from C-Jeremiah] of 2 different kinds of "presences" in the land...an, for lack of a better term, Spirit kind, and a more complete kind, where the Land in some way "embodies" you. I don't think Joan or Jeremiah were ever embodied till the scene we see, when the whole bunch crosses over...
About the same time - or really, her crossing-over was misdiagnosed as mental illness. I speculate that all she really has are migraine or cluster headaches, because Linden sees the caesures as "migraines." They seem more like cluster headaches because of their number. I speculate that Foul has promised her freedom from her pain in the Land in order to gain her allegiance.Vraith wrote:I have no evidence other than paralleling other happenings, but I suspect Joan started reaching the Land [as opposed to LF reaching her in our world] right about the same time that she was committed [bound, with peeps shoving drugs and shit down her throat, in both worlds]...possibly a bit later, when her ring was given back, but I think the former [if I'm remembering events correctly].
At first it was due to Laws being broken. That's why Foul was able to appear in the bonfire. Now the crumbling of the Law of Time itself is making the transition easier.Vraith wrote:The easing of translation may be due to problems with the Arch...but I think more closely with problems with Law's broken...I can imagine a universe where peeps cross freely from ours to theirs [theirs to ours is more problematic], without the Arch falling...at least not immediately..how much white gold would be exported to the Land, at incredible profit, if that were the case? Heh...headline: "Eh-Brand Supplanted by E-Bay!"
Somehwere in the GI I think Donaldson noted that Jeremiah isn't *really* autistic, because his symptoms and the progress of his conditon do not track that of actual autism (which is not a psychological response to trauma as Jeremiah's condtiion is). that's why I used the term "pseudo-autism".I think he has real autism.
In WGW "The Eh-Brand" TC, Linden and company encounter sunbane-warped Ur-Viles, and we are led to believe that Foul had gotten really POed at them and had shoved them out into the dawning sunbane. Linden wonders if this is due to their making Vain. Since this is mere speculation of her part, the door is open to another explanation.I don't recall Foul turning against the ur-viles, the ur-viles turned against Foul.
I remember SRD's response. Yet the descriptions of Jeremiah's condition don't match that of a severely withdrawn child, but of a severely autistic one.Aleksandr wrote:Somehwere in the GI I think Donaldson noted that Jeremiah isn't *really* autistic, because his symptoms and the progress of his conditon do not track that of actual autism (which is not a psychological response to trauma as Jeremiah's condtiion is). that's why I used the term "pseudo-autism".I think he has real autism.
I don't recall Foul turning against the ur-viles, the ur-viles turned against Foul.
Of course, Foul is very predictable. But I believe the ur-viles turned against LF first.Aleksandr wrote:In WGW "The Eh-Brand" TC, Linden and company encounter sunbane-warped Ur-Viles, and we are led to believe that Foul had gotten really POed at them and had shoved them out into the dawning sunbane. Linden wonders if this is due to their making Vain. Since this is mere speculation of her part, the door is open to another explanation.
People can be self-loathing, self-destructive, yet not suicidal. I never thought the ur-viles were suicidal, although some here think I made that claim. On the contrary, their re-interpretation of their Weird may be along Biblical lines: in order to lose one's life one must first love it. But they cannot love themselves until they have sacrificed themselves as a race for the highest cause in an apotheosis achieved in a single act that is both destructive and creative at the same time.Aleksandr wrote:On a larger question, I think it's pretty obvious that the Ur-Viles are up to something big and they have been for a long time-- maybe some ultimate plan that goes all the way back to the Viles. In the 2nd Chrons we were also led to think that Findail's resistance to Vain's purpose was wholly personal: he did not want to lose his life. But the other Elohim also tried to destroy Vain, and Findal at least hints that there's stuff going on with Vain and the Ur-Viles that isn't to be trusted (naturally he can't be bothered to come right out and explain anything!)
