Rock Brothers

[marineguy]

Saltheart Foamfollower and Bannor

[wayfriend]

Thanks for sharing your work, mg.

Sometimes people post works in progress and hope the TC fandom can make suggestions or critical comments. And sometimes they just want to share and spread smiles.

So a few comments from the artist along these lines might go a long way towards soliciting replies.

(I smiled.)

[danlo]

I'm very impressed!

[marineguy]

Comments from TC fans are always welcome both good and bad. I read the series 4 times and still miss things that give us a hint of a character on how they looked or how they "hold" themselves. All work is ongoing and undoubtedly will change as I learn more from others.

Everyone's "minds eye" sees things differently.

[dlbpharmd]

Very good rendering, thanks for sharing. What was your inspiration for the background?

[marineguy]

Very good rendering, thanks for sharing. What was your inspiration for the background?

On this one, it was random and I included Bannor for perspective on Foamfollower and remembered they were Rock Brothers

[lorin]

Hi and welcome. Your work is very good. I especially like Foamfollower. I would say it is almost exactly as I pictured him in my minds eye. I look forward to seeing more of your work!

[wayfriend]

[The Bloodguard] were like Stonedownors in size and build [Stowndowners: shorter than Covenant, "a stocky, broad-shouldered breed"] but they were flat-faced and brown-skinned, with curly hair cropped short. They wore short ocher tunics belted in blue that appeared to be made of vellum, and their lower legs and feet were bare.

Even for a being twelve feet tall, [Saltheart Foamfollower] appeared gnarled with muscles, like an oak come to life. He was dressed in a heavy leather jerkin and leggings, and carried no weapons. A short beard, as stiff as iron, jutted from his face. And his eyes were small, deep-set and enthusiastic. From under his brows, massed over his sockets like the wall of a fortress, his glances flashed piercingly, like gleams from his cavernous thoughts. Yet, in spite of his imposing appearance, he gave an impression of incongruous geniality, of immense good humor.

[marineguy]

Mmmmm, let's see if I can modify according to specs.....thanks Way!!1

[marineguy]

[The Bloodguard] were like Stonedownors in size and build [Stowndowners: shorter than Covenant, "a stocky, broad-shouldered breed"] but they were flat-faced and brown-skinned, with curly hair cropped short. They wore short ocher tunics belted in blue that appeared to be made of vellum, and their lower legs and feet were bare.

Even for a being twelve feet tall, [Saltheart Foamfollower] appeared gnarled with muscles, like an oak come to life. He was dressed in a heavy leather jerkin and leggings, and carried no weapons. A short beard, as stiff as iron, jutted from his face. And his eyes were small, deep-set and enthusiastic. From under his brows, massed over his sockets like the wall of a fortress, his glances flashed piercingly, like gleams from his cavernous thoughts. Yet, in spite of his imposing appearance, he gave an impression of incongruous geniality, of immense good humor.

Yet, cover art from the The Power That Preserves shows otherwise. Check out the first two covers on this site

[Menolly]

Yet, cover art from the The Power That Preserves shows otherwise. Check out the first two covers on this site

From what has SRD said in the GI, never, ever base visualizations on "cover art." Instead, read the description and visualize it for yourself.

Where cover art and leeway are concerned, there is enormous variety. Some publishers refuse to let their artists read the book: the art director describes the image/scene he/she wants, and the artist attempts to do satisfactory work. Some publishers own stock portfolios of pre-painted art, and they simply grab something out of the pile when they need a cover. In contrast, some artists will not do a cover without reading the book; and they often insist on choosing their own images/scenes. Lester del Rey considered cover art paramount: he let the artist do whatever the artist felt like--and they he changed the book to suit the cover. Some editors only care about the artist’s reputation: the specific art is a trivial consideration. In the case of the cover you describe, the editor asked the artist (Michael Herring) to create one vast painting which could be cut into six panels for the six “Covenant” books; and what the editor wanted in the original painting was symbolic resonance and variety rather than literal accuracy.

But speaking *very* broadly: editors consider an “evocative” image/scene far more important than a “literal” one. Hence the many inaccuracies you’ve observed.

(You may be interested to know that Darrel K. Sweet’s original cover for WGW depicted Marie Antoinette, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, and a rhinoceros confronting Hawkman. First I wept. Then I screamed. Fortunately the success of TOT gave me the clout to insist on changes.)

(01/10/2007)

[marineguy]

Ok, here are the specs. Bannor, Foamfollower and Covenant

[Krazy Kat]

I hope you wont mind a small criticism.

I remember reading somewhere in the story that the Giants are not human.
Maybe they have a resemblance to Tolkien's Ents,
only that the Giants are more rock-like than tree-like.

I also see the Giants as an essentially unattractive race in their appearance.
Or let's say that once you get to know them better the more attractive they become.
I see the female Giants a bit like the impression I had of
the Klingon women - in the Wrath of Khan, I think it was.
Maybe this sounds weird, but I find the Klingon women quite sexy!

Here's a rough sketch of Saltheart Foamfollower I done on Windows Paint to illustrate what I mean.
I couldn't capture the enthusiasm in his eyes, or the humor in his mouth.
Unless you look for it! As I'm sure Covenant had done.

[wayfriend]

Marineguy, now you are getting there! (Is that ochre, or mauve? )

Krazy Kat, no, the Giant's are quite humanlike, although their muscular frames are often poetically described in terms of oak or stone.

[marineguy]

I hope you wont mind a small criticism.

I remember reading somewhere in the story that the Giants are not human.
Maybe they have a resemblance to Tolkien's Ents,
only that the Giants are more rock-like than tree-like.

I also see the Giants as an essentially unattractive race in their appearance.
Or let's say that once you get to know them better the more attractive they become.
I see the female Giants a bit like the impression I had of
the Klingon women - in the Wrath of Khan, I think it was.
Maybe this sounds weird, but I find the Klingon women quite sexy!

Here's a rough sketch of Saltheart Foamfollower I done on Windows Paint to illustrate what I mean.
I couldn't capture the enthusiasm in his eyes, or the humor in his mouth.
Unless you look for it! As I'm sure Covenant had done.

lol, I don't mind criticism at all Maybe they have a resemblance or maybe not, isn't what you are saying more conjecture? I don't see them as unattractive at all and I don't think I ever read they were "non-human" can you quote an original line? This is just my opinion but when they first met, Covenant would surely have noted that when he described them wouldn't you say? What we do know, as pointed out , "appeared gnarled with muscles, like an oak come to life. He was dressed in a heavy leather jerkin and leggings"

Everyone's "mind's eye" sees differently. Klingons in the first Star Trek, didn't resemble the ones in the new one did they? Which do you find attractive, the new or the old? "Gnarled muscles" like an oak seems to me like the modern day Bodybuilders, their muscles are gnarled aren't they?

[marineguy]

Marineguy, now you are getting there! (Is that ochre, or mauve? )

Krazy Kat, no, the Giant's are quite humanlike, although their muscular frames are often poetically described in terms of oak or stone.

lol Lighting in this software changes things, what was ochre on screen doesn't appear to be in the rendering.

[marineguy]

Marineguy, now you are getting there! (Is that ochre, or mauve? )

Krazy Kat, no, the Giant's are quite humanlike, although their muscular frames are often poetically described in terms of oak or stone.

Look at the lighting in the Covenant/Bannor post, I changed the image based on the modifications and the lighting and it came out browner.

[marineguy]

Yet, cover art from the The Power That Preserves shows otherwise. Check out the first two covers on this site

From what has SRD said in the GI, never, ever base visualizations on "cover art." Instead, read the description and visualize it for yourself.

Where cover art and leeway are concerned, there is enormous variety. Some publishers refuse to let their artists read the book: the art director describes the image/scene he/she wants, and the artist attempts to do satisfactory work. Some publishers own stock portfolios of pre-painted art, and they simply grab something out of the pile when they need a cover. In contrast, some artists will not do a cover without reading the book; and they often insist on choosing their own images/scenes. Lester del Rey considered cover art paramount: he let the artist do whatever the artist felt like--and they he changed the book to suit the cover. Some editors only care about the artist’s reputation: the specific art is a trivial consideration. In the case of the cover you describe, the editor asked the artist (Michael Herring) to create one vast painting which could be cut into six panels for the six “Covenant” books; and what the editor wanted in the original painting was symbolic resonance and variety rather than literal accuracy.

But speaking *very* broadly: editors consider an “evocative” image/scene far more important than a “literal” one. Hence the many inaccuracies you’ve observed.

(You may be interested to know that Darrel K. Sweet’s original cover for WGW depicted Marie Antoinette, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, and a rhinoceros confronting Hawkman. First I wept. Then I screamed. Fortunately the success of TOT gave me the clout to insist on changes.)

(01/10/2007)

wow, I never knew that! No wonder the book covers scenes sometime are not related to story. Thanks Menolly!!!!!

[marineguy]

sorry for the image size people, I'll get it down to the right size in the next ones.

[Krazy Kat]

Hi marineguy,

As you're new here on Kevin's Watch I really should have introduced myself first before laying out criticism on your art. Well, I'm a goofy f*ck - ask anyone, they'll tell you the same. Invariably, my comments are met with objection, but what the hell...I'm well used to it by now. ha ha.

In answer to your question, above, I'm unable to provide the exact quote at this time. But I'm sure it was none other than old Salty himself that said to Thomas Covenant, "You humans are a hasty lot!". Only a 'non-human can make such a statement.

Besides which, a Giant can thrust his mitts into the heart of a bonfire without doing damaging the skin. A human cannot!
No! the Giants have stone in their DNA. When Saltheart Foamfollower submerged himself in Hotash Slay, molten rock, he lived to tell the tale.
If he were oaken, as in wood, their would have been nothing left of him.

But stone...?

As you said, this is all conjecture! And of course you're right. For every person who has read the Chronicles there is an equal amount of differing images. Which is the stamp of a talented writer, wouldn't you say!

kk