Profound Dis

[Roynish]

This is painful to read. AATE from the first few hundred sucks. We all know and we all know. Its friggin awful stuff.

[Starkin]

Um, well Roynish, I guess I'll have to respectfully disagree with your opinion. I think AATE has some of the best writing SRD has ever done. AATE is definitely its own entity, can't really compare it to other books in the series. It's only natural to try to do so.

There is a lot of talking in the book, a lot of exposition and seemingly some inaction on the part of the characters. But some action is there: sometimes right in the middle of the talking a caesure appears in their midst!

I don't know, I feel there are a lot of profound moments in AATE. I loved it immensely. Especially the beginning after Covenant's resurrection and at the very end with his heartbreaking confrontation with Joan.

Of course, all IMHO. And you're certainly entitled to yours!

[hue of fuzzpaws]

Hear, hear, Starkin

[Savor Dam]

Um, well Roynish, I guess I'll have to respectfully disagree with your opinion...

I don't know, I feel there are a lot of profound moments in AATE. I loved it immensely. Especially the beginning after Covenant's resurrection and at the very end with his heartbreaking confrontation with Joan.

There were some other moments that may have been even more profound. Roynish had not gotten anywhere near that far into the book. RAFO.

[Rocksister]

Well I got about 150 pp into it and it's in my bookcase now. I guess I'll try to plod through it later. I never thought one of SRD's Covenant books would bore me. But like I said, I need to read further. I've read enough praise to know there's something in there somewhere worthwhile. But 100 pages and no one moves? Come ON..........

[lurch]

Well..there it is Rocksister,," 100 pages in and nothing moves"

There is movement and I can see by your words its not the kind of movement you may be accustomed to. Btw..this post is addressed to the many who make the same basic complaint as 100 pages in..
This post is not so much a defense of Donaldson as its a defense for the complainers. I can sympathize with your observations.

The first paragraph of AATE is of such movement that it is just about impossible to grasp by the earth bound reader. TC coming back from Infinity , All Time, with his little physical head about to explode if he doesn't get rid of a Lot of His All Time Experience real fast. Thats Movement in Time and Space that the author challenges the reader to just try and comprehend. As AATE further demonstrates..its the attempt that is important rather than actual reaching the goal.

Some where, along ones Life travels, perhaps nearer to the gray hairs stage,,one may begin to consider The Infinite. Heaven, Hell,,recycled atoms,,whatever,,but the distant non concern becomes more contemplated as it draws closer to dawning inevitability. Choices we never knew we had or knew existed become realized when contemplating and opening up to the Infinite. Even a word like.." movement" begins to be seen in dimensions anew,,as in the opening paragraph of AATE.

So I agree with you. You may have done the right thing by placing AATE on the shelf. Considering Donaldson is up there in age, 63, 64?..its fair to say that The Last Chrons reflects his Time spent on earth. Perhaps when the Infinite becomes more recognizable to your self..you may find aspects of AATE, if not the whole of The Last Chrons , more insightful and thus interesting. Its like what is said in fear in The Last Chrons..unearned knowledge. I say this with out any judgment on anybody. There is no blame or even argument . Its just the way Life is..or the way we make it. But....my contention is...Donaldson will eventually make the point that..we make our own futures,,and we can start doing that,,at any age. The Infinite is always there.

[Zarathustra]

The Infinite is always there.

Yes, the infinite is always there. And as you correctly point out, Lurch, it can be implied or symbolized in one paragraph (or one sentence, or even one word). But taking the route of "eh, a couple hundred more pages ought to do the trick" is surely a futile literary technique to get across the idea of infinity to the reader. Yeah, it might *appear* to move the reader a little closer to infinity. But what's another 100 pages to infinity? Not much. You'll never get there, no matter how gray you get, or how many more pages you extend that one scene. On the other hand, to the reader, 100 more pages of bathing/eating/sleeping/self-recriminating is a big deal. If the author can't communicate the idea of infinity in 100 pages of characters sitting in one spot, another 200 page attempt at the same exact technique is unlikely to improve the situation. A good writer should be able to do it in fewer pages.

There is movement and I can see by your words its not the kind of movement you may be accustomed to.

I know many meanings for the word, "movement," and none of those meanings make AATE any better. I think that reducing complaints to a misunderstanding of basic English words, like "movement," on the part of the readers is to not give those readers enough credit. Surely you don't actually think that Rocksister is unaware of more than one connotation for this word. Surely.

Many of us have loved Mordant's Need, despite that the first book is almost entirely in one place. In fact, I thought the second book was worse when they started moving through the kingdom. It is not sheer physical movement that is the problem here. It is the lack of narrative movement. Honestly, it seemed like Donaldson himself lost track of how much time the characters had been where the Ardent dropped them off at the beginning of Part II. The characters kept going to sleep--after waking up just a few pages earlier--with no break in the narrative between naps. Maybe you're at a stage in your life when you need multiple naps an hour, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to read a story about it, no matter how accurately it approximated the Infinite in its slow, aimless plodding toward a resolution.

Some where, along ones Life travels, perhaps nearer to the gray hairs stage,,one may begin to consider The Infinite.
...
Perhaps when the Infinite becomes more recognizable to your self..you may find aspects of AATE, if not the whole of The Last Chrons , more insightful and thus interesting.

I'm quite sure that my age, at least, has nothing to do with my dissatisfaction with the book. And I've got a few grays (not that this matters ... I've been thinking about the Infinite since childhood). I don't think any of us here are too immature and disconnected from our spirituality to appreciate this "Masterpiece." If you say you mean no offense, I'll have to take your word for it. Maybe you honestly don't know how you come across when imply this. But if it matters at all to you how you come across to others, please take my word for how it comes across to me: it's condescending. In fact, this is true any time one dismisses reader complaints as some inadequacy of the reader, (rather than just talking about the book), whether it be age, reading comprehension, knowledge of surrealism, knowledge of basic English words, or not being in touch with our spirituality. Do you even know how old Rocksister is? Do you know if she has grays, or whether it's ever occurred to her to contemplate the Infinite? Without that knowledge, don't you think it's presumptuous to speculate and imply that this is her problem? Maybe she's an old, wise soul who just didn't like the book!

[lurch]

Well Z,,the author conveyed Infinity in the first paragraph..theres nothing else I can say. Like I put it,,theres no argument here. Yet, you argue..Have fun.

[Rigel]

This is painful to read. AATE from the first few hundred sucks. We all know and we all know. Its friggin awful stuff.

I disagree with the title.
This is a banal dis.
I was really hoping for more profound criticism from you
(Hey, even though I loved the book, I'm interested in reading well thought out criticisms.)

[Zarathustra]

Like I put it,,theres no argument here.

Well then, I guess we're in 100% agreement. How could I have missed it? Oh I know ... it must have been all that stuff you said that I didn't agree with.

I'm having lots of fun, thanks.

[alanm]

This is painful to read. AATE from the first few hundred sucks. We all know and we all know. Its friggin awful stuff.

totally agree, it is an awful book. How can SD write stuff like this?

Maybe he would like to comment.