The Harrow

[Seeker of Truth]

Warning: do not read if you have not completed the first 200 pages of AATE!!

When Roger killed the Harrow he shouted " Sucker" or words to that effect!

C'mon!! I expected something a little more erudite not "Sucker"!!

I belive that this is the point when SRD has jumped the shark!

[dlbpharmd]

We should remember that it's Roger, the closest thing to redneck in the Chronicles other than Sheriff Lytton.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Warning: do not read if you have not completed the first 200 pages of AATE!!

When Roger killed the Harrow he shouted " Sucker" or words to that effect!

C'mon!! I expected something a little more erudite not "Sucker"!!

I belive that this is the point when SRD has jumped the shark!

This is the first complaint I've seen about that moment. And this isn't the point in the book where I personally expected more out of Roger.

[Zarathustra]

Seeker, I agree. That was definitely a WTF moment for me. (I commented on this in the Reading Along thread.) It may have been in character for Roger--who the hell knows, we don't really know much about him--but it certainly took me out of the moment. And it was so emphatic, too! "Suck-ER!" Just bizarre.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Seeker, I agree. That was definitely a WTF moment for me. (I commented on this in the Reading Along thread.) It may have been in character for Roger--who the hell knows, we don't really know much about him--but it certainly took me out of the moment. And it was so emphatic, too! "Suck-ER!" Just bizarre.

By definition of the slang term "sucker," Roger is correct. About 40 years ago someone from our reality might have called the Harrow a chump, not a sucker. Furthermore, saying that indicates he wants to get a dig in at the last moment, just to rub it in a little. The up-to-date nature of the slang term "sucker" indicates that the Chrons are taken place during present-day Earth. And it shows that Roger is a smart-ass, which we already knew particularly from the beginning of ROTE. Lastly, given Roger's age, we see that he is barely out of his teens, a time when such slangy terms are in heavy use.

[Edit - I had to check on this, the stress in the term "sucker" was on the first syllable not the last.]

[DrPaul]

Seeker, I agree. That was definitely a WTF moment for me. (I commented on this in the Reading Along thread.) It may have been in character for Roger--who the hell knows, we don't really know much about him--but it certainly took me out of the moment. And it was so emphatic, too! "Suck-ER!" Just bizarre.

By definition of the slang term "sucker," Roger is correct. About 40 years ago someone from our reality might have called the Harrow a chump, not a sucker. Furthermore, saying that indicates he wants to get a dig in at the last moment, just to rub it in a little. The up-to-date nature of the slang term "sucker" indicates that the Chrons are taken place during present-day Earth. And it shows that Roger is a smart-ass, which we already knew particularly from the beginning of ROTE. Lastly, given Roger's age, we see that he is barely out of his teens, a time when such slangy terms are in heavy use.

[Edit - I had to check on this, the stress in the term "sucker" was on the first syllable not the last.]

This poses the interesting question of exactly when, in our world's timeline, the events of the three Chronicles occur. I've always thought of the First Chronicles occurring in the early 1970s, perhaps as early as 1970s. One reason for this is that the dying and badly disfigured leper who is shown to Covenant early in LFB, in order to impress on him the seriousness of his condition, was discovered when authorities contacted him to tell him that his son had died in "the war" which I took to be the Vietnam War. One could also (although I haven't done so to date) check out the currency of the medical knowledge of leprosy and leprosy "remedies" discussed in LFB, and the military terms and jargon uttered by Hile Troy early in TIW, against what was known/believed in the 1970s. One could also simply take the easy route of assuming that when SRD was writing TFC in the mid-1970s he would have situated the "real world" characters and events in his own (then) present or recent past.

If we locate the events of the First Chronicles in the early 1970s, we then have the Second Chronicles occurring in the early 1980s and the Last Chronicles in the early 1990s.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

I certainly did find the "SUCK-er" scene to be a real jaw-dropper. But not of the negative kind. It is just Donaldson pushing the envelope of what he can do with fantasy while maintaining credibility as an author.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Seeker, I agree. That was definitely a WTF moment for me. (I commented on this in the Reading Along thread.) It may have been in character for Roger--who the hell knows, we don't really know much about him--but it certainly took me out of the moment. And it was so emphatic, too! "Suck-ER!" Just bizarre.

By definition of the slang term "sucker," Roger is correct. About 40 years ago someone from our reality might have called the Harrow a chump, not a sucker. Furthermore, saying that indicates he wants to get a dig in at the last moment, just to rub it in a little. The up-to-date nature of the slang term "sucker" indicates that the Chrons are taken place during present-day Earth. And it shows that Roger is a smart-ass, which we already knew particularly from the beginning of ROTE. Lastly, given Roger's age, we see that he is barely out of his teens, a time when such slangy terms are in heavy use.

[Edit - I had to check on this, the stress in the term "sucker" was on the first syllable not the last.]

This poses the interesting question of exactly when, in our world's timeline, the events of the three Chronicles occur. I've always thought of the First Chronicles occurring in the early 1970s, perhaps as early as 1970s. One reason for this is that the dying and badly disfigured leper who is shown to Covenant early in LFB, in order to impress on him the seriousness of his condition, was discovered when authorities contacted him to tell him that his son had died in "the war" which I took to be the Vietnam War. One could also (although I haven't done so to date) check out the currency of the medical knowledge of leprosy and leprosy "remedies" discussed in LFB, and the military terms and jargon uttered by Hile Troy early in TIW, against what was known/believed in the 1970s. One could also simply take the easy route of assuming that when SRD was writing TFC in the mid-1970s he would have situated the "real world" characters and events in his own (then) present or recent past.

If we locate the events of the First Chronicles in the early 1970s, we then have the Second Chronicles occurring in the early 1980s and the Last Chronicles in the early 1990s.

What I said sounds really obvious, that the Chrons are taking place during present-day Earth. I intended to say that the Last Chrons are taking place in the present. But when exactly? I'm not sure how you get early 1990s. Why not early 2000s?

[Billy G.]

Jeremiah is 11 or 12 years older in TLC than he was in The Wounded Land. That would take us to the early or mid 1990's.

I actually liked that SUCK-er scene. Got rid of a nice Red Shirt. lol

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Jeremiah is 11 or 12 years older in TLC than he was in The Wounded Land. That would take us to the early or mid 1990's.

Agreed, if you want to look at it that way.

I actually liked that SUCK-er scene. Got rid of a nice Red Shirt. lol

Best line in the book, ya think?

[Zarathustra]

Seeker, I agree. That was definitely a WTF moment for me. (I commented on this in the Reading Along thread.) It may have been in character for Roger--who the hell knows, we don't really know much about him--but it certainly took me out of the moment. And it was so emphatic, too! "Suck-ER!" Just bizarre.

By definition of the slang term "sucker," Roger is correct.

I don't believe anyone claimed otherwise. The complaint here is that it sounds lame and stupid, not that he's using words incorrectly. Roger could have threatened to punch Linden in her vagina, and used these words correctly, but it still would have taken everyone out of the moment because it wouldn't fit with the rest of the Chronicles. If it doesn't bother you for characters in the Chronicles to utter things that Bugs Bunny might have said, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But it's a legitmate gripe for others to find it jarring.

[Edit - I had to check on this, the stress in the term "sucker" was on the first syllable not the last.]

I'm glad we have you to check on important details like that. I stand corrected! [Jesus, I thought *I* was argumentative! ]

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Seeker, I agree. That was definitely a WTF moment for me. (I commented on this in the Reading Along thread.) It may have been in character for Roger--who the hell knows, we don't really know much about him--but it certainly took me out of the moment. And it was so emphatic, too! "Suck-ER!" Just bizarre.

By definition of the slang term "sucker," Roger is correct.

I don't believe anyone claimed otherwise. The complaint here is that it sounds lame and stupid, not that he's using words incorrectly. Roger could have threatened to punch Linden in her vagina, and used these words correctly, but it still would have taken everyone out of the moment because it wouldn't fit with the rest of the Chronicles. If it doesn't bother you for characters in the Chronicles to utter things that Bugs Bunny might have said, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But it's a legitmate gripe for others to find it jarring.

[Edit - I had to check on this, the stress in the term "sucker" was on the first syllable not the last.]

I'm glad we have you to check on important details like that. I stand corrected! [Jesus, I thought *I* was argumentative! ]

Jesus? Anyway, If I'm going to discuss this minor issue at all I don't want to quote him incorrectly. You can misquote all you want, I don't care. And yes, the word was jarring, AND SO FUNNNNN! As for Bugs Bunny, that's perfect! I couldn't agree more, because it only goes to show that Roger has never grown up, perhaps never had any childhood to speak of. Roger is just such a perfect characterization of an adult-child, among other things. What better place for an adult-child than a fantasy realm? Roger, a misfit sociopath in the "real" world, has definitely found his place in life, particularly since it doesn't include the "real" world.

[Ur Dead]

What did you expect from Roger...
A quote from Hamlet or King Lear?

Goes to show that Roger used words that was familair to him.
Also it shows that he didn't read his fathers books..
or anybody else for that fact.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

What did you expect from Roger...
A quote from Hamlet or King Lear?

Goes to show that Roger used words that was familair to him.
Also it shows that he didn't read his fathers books..
or anybody else for that fact.

Apparently he said something that doesn't belong in a fantasy novel. He spent most of FR saying similar things (f-bombs and such), so I wasn't particularly surprised at this one. Nobody from the "real" world belongs in a fantasy realm anyway. Every book of the Chrons is out of line. Donaldson should be ashamed!

[SGuilfoyle1966]

Given the above post, it might have been more workable had he said F---er than Sucker. He was mr. Potty Mouth in FR.

The more interesting discussion in this thread to me is the dating of the Chronicles.

I remember a piece on 60 Minutes once about the Leprosarium in Louisiana. It may have been about the place closing down. But I know it was closed down by the time I had the second chrons safely nestled in my cranium.

Also, the drug that Covenant took for his leprosy, DDS, diamino diphenyl sulfate is NOT the drug of choice for leprosy anymore, Not quite..

They call DDS Dapsone now, by the way.

From the World Health Org. --

There are several effective chemotherapeutic agents against M. leprae. Dapsone (diaphenylsulfone, DDS), rifampicin (RFP), clofazimine (CLF, B663), ofloxacin (OFLX), and minocycline (MINO) constitute the backbone of the multidrug therapy (MDT) regimen recommended by WHO. Other chemotherapeutic agents, like Levofloxacin (LVFX), sparfloxacin (SPFX), and clarithromycin (CAM) are also effective against M. leprae [6, 7, 8]. WHO has designed very practical kits containing medication for 28 days, dispensed in blister packs, for both PB and MB leprosy. The blister pack medication kit for SLPB leprosy contains the exact dose for the one-time administration of the three components of the MDT regimen.

DDS by itself not a good thing. Covenant's relapse after first chronicles I attributed to his snake bite and malnutrition but --
I

t has been proven that monotherapy in leprosy will result in the development of resistance to the drug used. Thus, monotherapy with dapsone or any other antileprosy drug should be considered unethical practice.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Given the above post, it might have been more workable had he said F---er than Sucker. He was mr. Potty Mouth in FR.

The more interesting discussion in this thread to me is the dating of the Chronicles.

I remember a piece on 60 Minutes once about the Leprosarium in Louisiana. It may have been about the place closing down. But I know it was closed down by the time I had the second chrons safely nestled in my cranium.

Also, the drug that Covenant took for his leprosy, DDS, diamino diphenyl sulfate is NOT the drug of choice for leprosy anymore, Not quite..

They call DDS Dapsone now, by the way.

From the World Health Org. --

There are several effective chemotherapeutic agents against M. leprae. Dapsone (diaphenylsulfone, DDS), rifampicin (RFP), clofazimine (CLF, B663), ofloxacin (OFLX), and minocycline (MINO) constitute the backbone of the multidrug therapy (MDT) regimen recommended by WHO. Other chemotherapeutic agents, like Levofloxacin (LVFX), sparfloxacin (SPFX), and clarithromycin (CAM) are also effective against M. leprae [6, 7, 8]. WHO has designed very practical kits containing medication for 28 days, dispensed in blister packs, for both PB and MB leprosy. The blister pack medication kit for SLPB leprosy contains the exact dose for the one-time administration of the three components of the MDT regimen.

DDS by itself not a good thing. Covenant's relapse after first chronicles I attributed to his snake bite and malnutrition but --
I

t has been proven that monotherapy in leprosy will result in the development of resistance to the drug used. Thus, monotherapy with dapsone or any other antileprosy drug should be considered unethical practice.

Hey dude, I have bad news for you: this story isn't real. What you're saying is interesting factually but, in reality, nobody living in a small town American community is going to contract leprosy anyway. The entire leprosy premise of the Chrons is wayyyy out in left field.

[Aleksandr]

we then have the Second Chronicles occurring in the early 1980s and the Last Chronicles in the early 1990s.

From what little Real World background info we get in the books this works: an effective cure was worked out for leprosy in the late 80s/early 90s (a more complex drug regimen than the one mentioned in the First Chrons), and Linden mentions the fact that leprosy is now curable in the Third Chrons. As far as technology goes, Linden now has a cordless phone, which were common in the 90s, but no cell phone (as far as we know) which did become common until the late 90s.

[Horrim Carabal]

Roger could have threatened to punch Linden in her vagina

I predict this will happen in TLD.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Roger could have threatened to punch Linden in her vagina

I predict this will happen in TLD.

But you can't know this without an aluminum foil hat and a satellite dish. Believe me, I went years without these implements and got nowhere with my predictions until just recently.

[ninjaboy]

I honestly was pretty disappointed with the 'sucker' line..
It is ugly, and it's juvenile.. It's what a 15-yr old might have said.

And it's at odds with the cold, callous, calculating Roger we saw at the beginning of ROTE, or even the 'disguised' or 'revealed' Roger in FR.