Rightful white gold wielder(s)

[Horrim Carabal]

I sure hope SRD plans to fix this in the next book!

Fix what? For Linden it's the same old same old.

For Covenant, it's the ring he married Joan with. Instrument of the same union his ring symbolizes. I'm satisfied that TC would be the "rightful" weilder of either of the two rings.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

I sure hope SRD plans to fix this in the next book!

Fix what? For Linden it's the same old same old.

For Covenant, it's the ring he married Joan with. Instrument of the same union his ring symbolizes. I'm satisfied that TC would be the "rightful" weilder of either of the two rings.

AATE

Spoiler

Covenant has Joan's ring, Linden has Covenant's ring. What could fix this? Obviously an exchange of rings - and possibly an exchange of vows. This will also heal the "Don't touch me" moment in AATE.

Is it too smarmy to add that Covenant represents Father Time and Linden represents Mother Nature?

Putting it that way, it begins to sound like Anthony's Incarnations series. I speculate that in the long run that's what the Chrons will come down to, Incarnations of Immortality in reverse.

[Vraith]

Putting it that way, it begins to sound like Anthony's Incarnations series. I speculate that in the long run that's what the Chrons will come down to, Incarnations of Immortality in reverse.

Ya know...in a way, I can see this. And I kinda don't mind it...though I'd say the SRD version is a bit more complicated, digs deeper and finds richer veins. I'll have to think on it, but at first blush it's interesting.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Putting it that way, it begins to sound like Anthony's Incarnations series. I speculate that in the long run that's what the Chrons will come down to, Incarnations of Immortality in reverse.

Ya know...in a way, I can see this. And I kinda don't mind it...though I'd say the SRD version is a bit more complicated, digs deeper and finds richer veins. I'll have to think on it, but at first blush it's interesting.

Yes, it's more complicated and more interesting, because Anthony writes
fluff and Donaldson writes literature. Anthony failed in his attempts at writing literature because it didn't sell, where Donaldson succeeded admirably at selling literature. Anthony's writing is full of gimmicky stuff, and the lessons garnered from Incarnations only applied to the problems of a fictional world in which there existed an uncomfortable combination of magic and science.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Putting it that way, it begins to sound like Anthony's Incarnations series. I speculate that in the long run that's what the Chrons will come down to, Incarnations of Immortality in reverse.

Ya know...in a way, I can see this. And I kinda don't mind it...though I'd say the SRD version is a bit more complicated, digs deeper and finds richer veins. I'll have to think on it, but at first blush it's interesting.

Yes, it's more complicated and more interesting, because Anthony writes
fluff and Donaldson writes literature. Anthony failed in his attempts at writing literature because it didn't sell, where Donaldson succeeded admirably at selling literature. Anthony's writing is full of gimmicky stuff, and the lessons garnered from Incarnations only applied to the problems of a fictional world in which there existed an uncomfortable combination of magic and science.

I'm really being hard on Piers a lot of the time - but I should specify that I think Piers knows how to write in a literary style, and he is quite good at it, he just can't write in a way that sells books. What really gets me is the waste of talent in favor of making a dollar.

[dlbpharmd]

Worm (AATE spoiler:)

Spoiler

An "exchange of rings" would NOT solve this conundrum, as neither Covenant or Linden are rightful wielders, regardless of which ring they carry.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Worm (AATE spoiler:)

Spoiler

An "exchange of rings" would NOT solve this conundrum, as neither Covenant or Linden are rightful wielders, regardless of which ring they carry.

Shall we have an exchange of spoilers?

AATE

Spoiler

Of course Linden wouldn't be a rightful wielder if she comes to possess Joan's ring through an exchange, but I don't see how it's not Covenant's ring in Linden's possession right now. And I don't see how Covenant couldn't be the rightful wielder of that ring.

So apparently you know something I don't know about all this - learned from Donaldson himself perhaps.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Is it possible to bump this to the AATE forum? I think it bears further discussion.

[aliantha]

So apparently you know something I don't know about all this - learned from Donaldson himself perhaps.

Indeed.
kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=796460#796460

[thewormoftheworld'send]

So apparently you know something I don't know about all this - learned from Donaldson himself perhaps.

Indeed.
kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=796460#796460

But that doesn't answer the exchange question, nor does it imply such an answer. Apparently, inside answers only go so far.

[aliantha]

So apparently you know something I don't know about all this - learned from Donaldson himself perhaps.

Indeed.
kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=796460#796460

But that doesn't answer the exchange question, nor does it imply such an answer. Apparently, inside answers only go so far.

Well, I couldn't easily find where DLB posted SRD's elaboration on his initial response. DLB, do you remember where you put it?

Bottom line is that the rightful wielder of Covenant's ring, as it stands now, is Lord Foul. And if Joan's gone, the rightful wielder of her ring *might* be Roger, come to think of it. It certainly wouldn't be Covenant; he would have lost any claim of inheritance as soon as the divorce was final.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Indeed.
kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=796460#796460

But that doesn't answer the exchange question, nor does it imply such an answer. Apparently, inside answers only go so far.

Well, I couldn't easily find where DLB posted SRD's elaboration on his initial response. DLB, do you remember where you put it?

Bottom line is that the rightful wielder of Covenant's ring, as it stands now, is Lord Foul. And if Joan's gone, the rightful wielder of her ring *might* be Roger, come to think of it. It certainly wouldn't be Covenant; he would have lost any claim of inheritance as soon as the divorce was final.

In that case, Covenant was never the rightful wielder the entire time he's been in the Land. The only "strong" case one could make for Foul being the rightful wielder is where he and Covenant are indeed one. And then they would have to both be rightful wielders of the same ring.

If Foul is the only rightful wielder, why doesn't he just take his ring back?

[aliantha]

Worm, did you read what SRD said in his GI response on the previous page? Covenant didn't give Foul his ring until the end of WGW. Up until that moment, Covenant was the rightful (if reluctant) wielder of his own ring.

Why hasn't Foul taken back his ring? Two reasons: 1) Linden has had it in "our" world. 2) Even when Foul used the ring to kill Covenant, it didn't shatter the Arch of Time -- which is what he's really after. He clearly can't achieve his ultimate aim by simply pointing white gold at the Arch. When he does that, it only makes Covenant stronger.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Worm, did you read what SRD said in his GI response on the previous page? Covenant didn't give Foul his ring until the end of WGW. Up until that moment, Covenant was the rightful (if reluctant) wielder of his own ring.

Why hasn't Foul taken back his ring? Two reasons: 1) Linden has had it in "our" world. 2) Even when Foul used the ring to kill Covenant, it didn't shatter the Arch of Time -- which is what he's really after. He clearly can't achieve his ultimate aim by simply pointing white gold at the Arch. When he does that, it only makes Covenant stronger.

I read your post with a link that started with "indeed." Donaldson said that a strong case could be made - I don't know if that constitutes proof. I am trying to put this together on the basis of his brief and somewhat perplexing response. Was there another post somewhere that I missed somehow? I don't see it.

[aliantha]

Part of it comes from page 100 of this thread that we're talking in right now -- the quote from the GI that started this discussion that we're participating in.

But the brute fact is that Covenant *gave* the ring to Lord Foul. That made LF the "rightful" wielder of that ring.

That happened at the end of WGW, right before Linden picked it up. Covenant's ring isn't his any more -- and it's not Linden's either.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Part of it comes from page 100 of this thread that we're talking in right now -- the quote from the GI that started this discussion that we're participating in.

But the brute fact is that Covenant *gave* the ring to Lord Foul. That made LF the "rightful" wielder of that ring.

That happened at the end of WGW, right before Linden picked it up. Covenant's ring isn't his any more -- and it's not Linden's either.

I quite agree. And you know, that's why I originally brought up the idea of them exchanging rings, and vows: using the marriage ceremony to re-establish rightful ownership. And I keep responding that Donaldson did not address this issue in his own response to a related question.

However, I am leaving it up to speculation, I would not try to claim that exchanging rings/vows would have any such effect on rightful ownership. I am only throwing that out there as a possible scenario for TLD because Foul being the possible rightful owner does not automatically negate my speculative comment.

But as usual, my satellite dish is probably pointed the wrong direction.

[Seareach]

err...um...do you guys want me to split this and send it to the AATE forum?

[sindatur]

err...um...do you guys want me to split this and send it to the AATE forum?

As someone who hasn't finished AATE, I vote yes

[aliantha]

Sorry.

[sindatur]

Sorry.

No need to apologize, you all were quite careful, just didn't want to stumble upon something, that you might easily unwittingly reveal