What's up with the gay?

Post by **Lord Zombiac** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:40 am

How come SRD has every type of character imaginable in his series, except homosexuals?
BTW, my next artwork for the forum will be two bearded giants making out!
Hot bears! Grrrr!
barbarianclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=94

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:02 am

Probably because he hasn't seen a need for it in his stories.

Post by **drew** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:24 am

I'm quite positive this has been discussed before.

I like what Hashi said, that there was no need in the stories.

To extrapolate, the need was for straight couplings, so that children would be born.

The first, and really most important married couple, is Trell and Atiaran.
They needed to have child, Lena.

If Covenant was gay, and Lena a male, after the rape, Elena would not have been conceived.

There are the Lords Loerya and Trevor...again, they needed to be able have children, so we could see Loerya's despair at wanting to save her daughters.

Triock, I guess, could have been a female character, still in Love with Lena; also Lords Shetra and Verement could easily have been Same-Sex
But the unfortunate thing, is, if either of those scenarios were the case, then they would have been looked upon, through the reader's eyes, as being different; and with SRD, pretty near everything has a deeper meaning.

If he had some same-sex couples in the Land, we, as readers probably would not sit back and think what a progressive writer SRD is...we'd be trying to figure why that specific couple was same-sex, or why that specific character was gay.

Post by **sohaliatalitha** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:46 am

Bare in mind that the majority of at least the TC chronicles was published in tho 70s - 80s. Homophobia was still pretty rife back then - it's still controversial now.

Even if SRD DID want to cover it in his series, he would have probably struggled to publish the material. He already covers many controversial matters, what with the rape and the incest. Why make it even /harder/? Particularly, as has already been mentioned, it was not important to the story as the other dark themes are.

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:52 pm

Many characters could be gay. It just wasn't mentioned.
Foamfollower never mentioned any desire for family, nor did Mhoram.

Dumbledore was gay too but we weren't hit over the head with it.

The Ramen probably had a lot of gays and accepted it since they wore garlands of flowers all the time.
The Haruchai on the other hand not only had no homosexual tendencies they were all total homophobes too.
Why else do you think the Ramen and the Haruchai have never got along.
Think about it.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:17 pm

sohaliatalitha wrote:He already covers many controversial matters, what with the rape and the incest.

The Chronicles are still pretty tame compared to The Gap Cycle.

Post by **danlo** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:14 pm

Lord Hyrim was probably in the closet...

Post by **sohaliatalitha** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:31 pm

The Chronicles are still pretty tame compared to The Gap Cycle.

I've never read the Gap Cycle to be honest, just beginning to get into reading adult fantasy - I'll hardly claim to be an expert.

Looking on good old wiki though, the Gap Cycle was published in the 90s. If you imagine that public opinion has gradually grown more liberal over the years this seems to make sense. (once again, I'm new to this whole world, so for all I know I'm talking complete rubbish!)

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:50 pm

sohaliatalitha wrote:for all I know I'm talking complete rubbish!)

The only person making that assessment is you.

Now...get in the game and go read the Gap Cycle. Just watch out for mutagens and the crib.

Post by **Lord Zombiac** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:04 pm

The Ramen probably had a lot of gays and accepted it since they wore garlands of flowers all the time.
The Haruchai on the other hand not only had no homosexual tendencies they were all total homophobes too.
Why else do you think the Ramen and the Haruchai have never got along.
Think about it.

Ha ha ha: Cord Gay! Remember her?

Lord Hyrim was probably in the closet...

Oh yeah! Hyram was a swishy dude!

Post by **sohaliatalitha** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:09 pm

danlo wrote:Lord Hyrim was probably in the closet...

... I always wondered about the way the Haruchai treat Covenant - particularly Birin (sp?)...

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Now...get in the game and go read the Gap Cycle.

I'll add it to my growing list and heed your warnings wisely!

Post by **Vraith** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:15 pm

High Lord Tolkien wrote: The Haruchai on the other hand not only had no homosexual tendencies they were all total homophobes too.

I don't know...I think they were maybe on the down low. Bunch of manly men, taking off on adventures for years [or CENTURIES] at a time, leaving the women-folk at home....

Post by **danlo** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:10 pm

Well the Haruchai are somewhat akin to Spartans, but they had mindspeak instead of a King, and even though the Spartans were somewhat susceptible to homosexuality, of course Earthpower prevented the Bloodguard from leaning that way...

Post by **ninjaboy** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:09 am

I vaguely remember a character or two in Donaldson's 'Mordant's Need' being bisexual at least..

As far as my own interpretations go, I expect there are homosexual and bisexual people in the world of the Land. But it's never really mentioned because it's hardly relevant to to the story Donaldson's trying to tell.
He's got the elohim and the demondim as well as others who are sexless, or asexual, or just don't reproduce..

Post by **Horrim Carabal** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:23 pm

Lord Zombiac wrote: Ha ha ha: Cord Gay! Remember her?

Think she was getting it on with the other Ramen chicks? That naughty little minx!

ninjaboy wrote:I vaguely remember a character or two in Donaldson's 'Mordant's Need' being bisexual at least..

What about the Gap?

Wasn't Min Donner bi?

What about Sorus?

Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

...intriguing, wonderful tricks..

Post by **SleeplessOne** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:41 am

Kasreyn of the Gyre would shag anything ...

It crossed my mind during one re-reading of the first chrons that Mhoram might be gay, he grew old without bearing any children - however, in TIW, he does say :

Why should I rest ? I have no wife, no children

, which kind of implies that if he was inclined to share his life with another it would be a woman ..

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:04 pm

Horrim Carabal wrote:Wasn't Min Donner bi?

What about Sorus?

Min was "married" to her job. I don't think she had time or desire for a personal life.

Sorus? I don't think she thought of people in any sexual way, other than perhaps as tools to be used. It's possible she was bisexual, though.

Mhoram was more like a monk. His life was one filled to the brim with service and devotion which left no room for a personal life or family.

Post by **peter** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:20 pm

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Dumbledore was gay too but we weren't hit over the head with it.

Was Dumbledor ever portrayed or written as gay at any time in the books or did JKR just say that as an afterthought in an interview to get people going.
I can't remember encountering anyone who was clearly gay ever in a fantasy novel - this of course is not to say there aren't any.

Post by **Lord Zombiac** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:43 pm

I wrote a short story (almost a vignette) in the fantasy genre about a gay man.
"I'm just mad about saffron."

Post by **sindatur** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:12 pm

peter wrote:
High Lord Tolkien wrote:Dumbledore was gay too but we weren't hit over the head with it.
Was Dumbledor ever portrayed or written as gay at any time in the books or did JKR just say that as an afterthought in an interview to get people going.
I can't remember encountering anyone who was clearly gay ever in a fantasy novel - this of course is not to say there aren't any.

The background of him and Grindelwald as young men, and his influence over Dumbledore, feels like something more then brotherly love on Dumbledore's part, but, no nothing is specifically stated in the books.

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