ok, let's do the numbers........

[lorin]

We have a family in my shelter. 3 adults, 11 children and mom is pregnant. They have been in shelter in nyc for nearly 12 years. They are both undocumented and neither work. All 11 children are citizens.

So let's do the numbers;

Due to the size of their family they get two units in my building. Our rate is 85.76 per night per unit.

2 units x 85.76 (let's round it off to 85) $170.00/night
170 x 365 = $62,500.00/year
62,500x 11 years - $687,500.00 in shelter cost over the last 11 years

All children get medicaid so based on my insurance I will estimate $400.00 per month per child.
That comes to 4800.00 / child per year. So lets assume that one kid is born every year over the last 11 years
52800
48000
43200
38400
33600
28800
24000
19200
14400
9600
4800
= $316,00.00 insurance cost


the Family receives $1700 in food stamps every month. That comes to $20,400.00 year . Again assuming the family grew each year increasing the foodstamp allotment for sanity sake we will average it in half which comes to 10.200/year x 11 years= 112,200 in federal food stamps.


The family receives welfare for each child. They receive $550.00/child/month which equals $6600/child/year. Again cutting it in half to allow for births that is $3300 x 11 children x 11 years equals $399,300 in welfare payments over 11 years.


According to links on the web the average cost of a hospital stay for a normal birth is $38,000.00. Therefore her 11 uninsured births cost the city
$488,000.


So, lets put it all together

Shelter $687,500
Food stamps $112,000
Medicaid $316,000
Welfare $399,300
Child Birth $488,000
$2,002,300.00


Feel my pain....................

* she has 3 other adult children, all female, all unemployed, all on welfare and all living in shelters throughout the city. She is also sueing the shelter (not mine) for a slip and fall where she states she lost a pregnancy.

[aliantha]

And they haven't been shipped back home...why?

[lorin]

And they haven't been shipped back home...why?

1 the government does not send home individuals who have citizen children.

2 the city agencies are forbidden to discuss immigration status with the federal government. If I or any employee were to tell immigration that we were housing undocumented people we would be immediately fired.


I feel like I am living in the middle of the Catch 22 novel.

[aliantha]

Fabulous...

[Rigel]

We have a family in my shelter. 3 adults, 11 children and mom is pregnant. They have been in shelter in nyc for nearly 12 years. They are both undocumented and neither work. All 11 children are citizens.

* she has 3 other adult children, all female, all unemployed, all on welfare and all living in shelters throughout the city. She is also sueing the shelter (not mine) for a slip and fall where she states she lost a pregnancy.

I'm a huge supporter of public assistance programs such as food stamps, unemployment benefits, medicaid, etc, but this just reeks of abusing the system

[sgt.null]

and this is just one example. no wonder our govt is broke and we are slipping towards another depression. the whole system is rife with abuse and fraud.

[Harbinger]

PM me the info and I will notify the governmqnt that someone is housing undocumented people.

[lorin]

PM me the info and I will notify the governmqnt that someone is housing undocumented people.

Do you really think anyone cares???? NO ONE here cares. I have 98 families in this building, 500 people and 14 of my families are undocumented. The government does not send back parents of citizen children. That is why so many try to come here and have a child. It is inborn immunity.

[Cameraman Jenn]

That's just appalling. I know a bit about your pain Lorin. My mom spent the majority of her working life working for the food stamps/ WIC program. She was one of the upper managers of that by the time she retired. Before they tightened the system and computers got a heck of a lot smarter she used to have people busting places for accepting food stamps for liquor and cigarettes and all sorts of drug paraphernalia such as bongs and pipes etc. The best one I can remember is one of the agents bought a naked lady reclining table lamp with the twisty on off switch as one of the nipples.... But anyway, she would be reviewing cases of women having kid after kid for the welfare, WIC and foodstamp money. Ridiculous.

[Holsety]

I feel like I am living in the middle of the Catch 22 novel.

I feel like I have finished it for the second time and finally understand it, and wish I didn't.

[lorin]

I feel like I am living in the middle of the Catch 22 novel.

I feel like I have finished it for the second time and finally understand it, and wish I didn't.

[ussusimiel]

Sounds to me like you've got a systemic problem. In my parts, if a person is the mother/father of a citizen then they are immediately entitled to a green card and public housing. The upshot is they are settled into the general community, their children go to regular schools and end up being integrated, positively contributing members of society. The cost works out a lot less in the short-to-medium term and becomes a gain in the long-term.

That said it is almost impossible to become a citizen of where I live (too tight in my opinion). That suggests a couple of systemic solutions. Tighten up the entitlement to citizenship laws or if not, support the citizens at the bottom in such a way as to help them rise up and make a positive contribution.

u.

[lorin]

Sounds to me like you've got a systemic problem. In my parts, if a person is the mother/father of a citizen then they are immediately entitled to a green card and public housing. The upshot is they are settled into the general community, their children go to regular schools and end up being integrated, positively contributing members of society. The cost works out a lot less in the short-to-medium term and becomes a gain in the long-term.

That said it is almost impossible to become a citizen of where I live (too tight in my opinion). That suggests a couple of systemic solutions. Tighten up the entitlement to citizenship laws or if not, support the citizens at the bottom in such a way as to help them rise up and make a positive contribution.

u.

I sure wouldnt mind getting a green card and setting up residency in Revelstone either

Where are you from so I can send my clients?

Tighten up the entitlement to citizenship laws

Seriously, though, that would require an amendment to the US Constitution. Nobody wants to tackle that one.

[ussusimiel]

We're very friendly and welcoming in Revelstone or at least we used to be

Spoiler

until the Masters got uppity

Seriously, though, that would require an amendment to the US Constitution.

Oh dear, that's never much fun and if the policies of state and federal bodies are in conflict then it's probably intractable

You have my sympathies


u.


P.S. It makes me appreciate where I live a bit more in spite of its many faults!

[lorin]

P.S. It makes me appreciate where I live a bit more in spite of its many faults!

Who wouldn't appreciate Revelstone?

[Rigel]

Even if we can't tackle the citizenship issue, we should at least make it easier for people who are here to become legally documented (without risk of deportation) and as such begin to contribute through paying taxes.

I don't buy the whole argument about making immigration easier will mean more people immigrating... people are already immigrating whether we want them to or not, we need to document & tax them rather than scare them underground.

Rather how I feel about certain drugs. Regulate & tax, rather than prohibit & prosecute.

[lorin]

Even if we can't tackle the citizenship issue, we should at least make it easier for people who are here to become legally documented (without risk of deportation) and as such begin to contribute through paying taxes.

I don't buy the whole argument about making immigration easier will mean more people immigrating... people are already immigrating whether we want them to or not, we need to document & tax them rather than scare them underground.

Rather how I feel about certain drugs. Regulate & tax, rather than prohibit & prosecute.

You know, in theory I agree with you. I just wish I could believe that those that legally immigrate will contribute. I really hope that is true. But I guess I have become so jaded. Even among those that I work with that are here legally, I see an extortion of the system that makes me so sad and so frustrated.

An example.........my senior site supervisor is from Nigeria. He brought his 72 yr old mother to come to this country legally. As soon as she got here he signed her up for medicare and took her to the hospital. Over the next 6 mos she had hip replacement and open heart surgery. After 8 months she returned home to Nigeria feeling much better. I do not want to deny anyone health care but where does it end? No clear answers.

[Cameraman Jenn]

Riddle me this then. I used to work next door to this Russian guy Leonid and his daughter was born here. She married a guy from the Ukraine who was here apparently illegally because his work visa expired. They had a baby. He did not know he had to renew the work visa because he married a US citizen and had a baby on US soil. The government eventually caught up to him and deported him to the Ukraine and he can't apply for citizenship for seven years so Leonid's daughter and the baby moved to the Ukraine. How in the hell does that happen? The guy was paying taxes for criminy sakes. He and Irina had even bought a house. Now Leo is paying the mortgage. Last I heard many lawyers were getting involved. Hopefully they will resolve it sooner than seven years.

[sgt.null]

because guys from the ukraine are not on the list to be fast tracked jenn. the ability to actually support oneself does not seem to be the overiding concern. so while your friend was an excellent taxpayer we choose to boot him and take on more welfare candidates.

btw it is cool that you know someone from the ukraine.

[ussusimiel]

P.S. It makes me appreciate where I live a bit more in spite of its many faults!

Who wouldn't appreciate Revelstone?

Spoiler

Well it's very dark, and the cops are a bit Fascist, the neighbours are vile and there are impossibly powerful co(I)nsequences hanging around every corner. On the plus side the pool is nice and we've two stout doors donated by some big-hearted people

because guys from the ukraine are not on the list to be fast tracked jenn. the ability to actually support oneself does not seem to be the overiding concern. so while your friend was an excellent taxpayer we choose to boot him and take on more welfare candidates.

This is something that I have a big issue with and I think it could be addressed by something like the following: if a person (with a green card or other working visa) contributes positively to the economy of a country for five years then I think that person should be given a green card that is renewed automatically for the next three to five years. At that stage the person should be offered a permanent working visa or citizenship.

Eight-to-ten years is a significant chunk of anyone's working life. By that stage people have started making lives for themselves, buying houses, having kids etc. They are not going to want to be on welfare. This for me would be a just and simple way to recognise a person's positive contribution to society regardless of their country of origin.

Many years ago as a child I heard the following but I didn't understand it until recently:

'We needed labour to help our country grow. We got people instead.'

This would recognise and reward the person rather than treating them as an economic unit that is useful in the short-term but that can be discarded when deemed no longer necessary.

u.