The Dark Knight Rises

[Rigel]

TDK overcame it's pacing issues to be a great film.
TDKR didn't, so it's merely good.

[Akasri]

I agree - the movie wasn't *bad* per se, it just wasn't what it could have been. They tried to cram too much in I think.

Although, I must say, Anne Hathaway did much better as Selina Kyle than I thought she would.

[finn]

So long its still sinking in 3 days later!

I think this might have been two movies worth of plot condensed to one. I do think it rounded the series off very well, but was rushed with the result that the character's redemption process whilst supposedly tortuous over 3+ months was accomplished with about 5 minutes screen time. There was no despair, no darkness to overcome or emerge from, leaving Batman far less substantial and more wishy washy even than his hulk-like adversary.

Despite 2 1/2 hours of film, there was no time used to buy in or invest emotionally and things such as Alfred leaving had no obvious consequence: even a 30 second emotional outburt or meltdown at how things were going wrong.... you've lost all your money and your surrogate father has left you..... but with no more than a shrug the plot rolls on.

So to the baddie, Bane was denied any character by the mask; it simply did not allow for any expression. Of course his eventual role as a servant might have justified that, but it was a lot of work to put into Bane and so little into the real baddie, just to set up a wry plot twist.

Good stuff again from Sir Michael, Morgan Freeman and the superb Gary Oldman plus one or two others in the support cast. Catwoman straddling that bike with echoes of Carrie-Anne Moss in one or the Matrix's, was a highlight. The "Robin" character was telegraphed, but its all set up to roll out the usual rubbish that follows the major production cycle.

Technolgy/gadgets wise, I enjoyed it but I was left a bit flat by it being a tale told almost in the third person even tho' I was there: I was being told and asked to believe that there was mental and emotional anguish, but I couldn't actually see that. The mission was to include all the pieces necessary to conclude the trilogy; that was accomplished but at the expense of any depth in the character development.

Maybe more "The Knight Rises" the darkness was not deep enough

[I'm Murrin]

I just got back from seeing this; I think it's an excellent film and a good end to the series.

I liked very much what they did with Joseph Gordon Levitt's Detective Blake.

Spoiler

They could have tied up the ending as they did and left it feeling like just a sequel hook, but they built the film around him, built his character throughout it so the way it goes in the end just works naturally.

He seems to get a lot more screen time than the others, and it works.

I do see the problem with timing.

Spoiler

Too little happens inside Gotham for 5 months to have passed - but they needed it to be a long time for Batman to recover from a spinal injury. They needed the ticking clock, and for Batman to return when it was almost done, to provide the tension and bring about that ending. The Gotham plot makes sense if it took place over a few weeks. The Batman plot makes sense if it took months. The two don't quite mesh.

Yes, Bane has a silly voice. But I liked it, it seemed deliberate. It's the dissonance, the big, hulking character in an impassive mask, who has this large, musical, theatrical voice that seems completely at odds with him.

Spoiler

I lliked the twist, but I saw it coming. As soon as Bruce suggested giving control of Waynecorp to Miranda I suspected she'd turn out to be Talia al Ghul, and when they told us the reactor could be turned into a weapon I considered it as good as confirmed. I'm not sure, though, that the plot quite makes sense because of it - she was given the freedom to choose whether or not to turn on the reactor: the story didn't need her to have a gun pointed at her head to activate it without breaking her disguise.

I also liked spotting all the ways that The Dark Knight Returns influenced this film. There's a lot that seemed familiar to me from that, though distorted.

Spoiler

The police released from underground take the role of the reformed Mutants that Batman recruits to return order to the city, for example; and the creation of the home for orphans at the end reflects his taking on of those former gang kids at the end of the comic.

I haven't read Knightfall but I know the major elements were there of his fight with Bane.

[dlbpharmd]

I hated this film. Terrible acting by all involved, horrible editing and directing. About half of the time, I couldn't understand Bane at all. Subtitles would've been nice.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

I can't wait to see this film so I can find out who's right and who's wrong...

[Cambo]

I thought it was awesome. Flawed in some details, yes, but a very satisfying conclusion to the trilogy. I didn't see

Spoiler

Tahlia al Ghul

coming at all.

[Rigel]

About half of the time, I couldn't understand Bane at all. Subtitles would've been nice.

Too true.

Oh, and about Marion Cotillard...

Spoiler

When they announced her casting in the film, it was initially announced as Talia al Ghul. Then that was pulled, and she was re-announced w/o a role. So, yeah, the whole movie I knew it was coming.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I haven't seen it yet but I did want to put down some ideas so that afterwards I can see how right or wrong I might be.

Spoiler

Okay, we know Ras al-Ghul did not die at the end of Batman Begins; that is the easy part. We know he did not die because we didn't see his dead body in the wreckage.

After returning home, he prepares and sets loose his pet project whom we know as The Joker; *that* is where he got those scars--they were self-inflicted as part of his preparation. He has no known identity and his fingerprints do not match with anyone on record, which would be the case for someone whom Ras is training. Some of his comments also support this--"I'm an *agent* of chaos" and "It's not about the money; it's about sending a message", for example; also, if we look at what eventually happens in the second movie is that Batman is destroyed as a symbol of hope for Gotham. That *was* the plan--Ras al-Ghul's plan--to undo anything Bruce had done. Anyway...Joker knew who Batman was and had been given a psychological profile of him by Ras, which is how he knew exactly which buttons to push. Ras had also turned the whole "being theatrical" and "wearing a mask" on its head as a parody to Batman.

Here is the part where I dive into pure speculation with no evidence for support at all. Years ago, Martha (is that Bruce's mother's name? I forget) was involved with Ras before she met Thomas; as a result of this they had a daughter who was put up for adoption but she had a good family life at the Kyle residence. Along comes her biological father and he alters her life, making her the person she is today. Anyway...because Martha chooses Thomas and Gotham City, Ras swears revenge. The face that she got shot was coincidence....or maybe this is what caused Ras to swear revenge on Gotham. I am unclear here.
Anyway...after several years Ras finds another pupil of promise in, surprisingly, the same prison where Bruce was when Ras found him. He then launches this new pupil against Gotham in another attempt to destroy the city.

Now all I have to do is see the movie and figure out how wrong I am.

[sgt.null]

I really hope they use the Calender Man (the Long Halloween version) and the Signal Man in the next Batman movie.

it would be great for some obscure characters to become part of the movie goers lexicon)

team up Bats with Onyx (in her original costume)

who's with me?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_Man

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalman_(comics)

Onyx

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx_(comics)

[I'm Murrin]

I think the huge popularity of the Arkham Asylum video games has actually opened up a lot of possibility for introducing previously lesser-known characters into mainstream Batman films, so you never know. Calendar Man actually appeared in Arkham City, locked up in a hidden room. I know a helluva lot more Batman characters now than I did a few years back.

(I did notice the tiny, tiny cameo of Victor Zsasz in Batman Begins when I rewatched. He was the criminal on trial right at the start when you first see how Crane is having people sent to Arkham instead of prison (and appeared again among the escaping inmates at the end).)

[sgt.null]

Murrin - cool! i have not seen the video game. is a P3 game?

Captain America also had some cool cameos, including the original Human Torch. and the original Union Jack's alter ego.

I enjoy it when they add little easter eggs for the comic geeks like me without being heavy handed about it.

[I'm Murrin]

Batman: Arkham Asylum and Batman: Arkham City are avaialble for PC, Mac, PS3, and XBox 360.

The main villain in both is the Joker, but they're chock full of all kinds of other characters (though mainly the well-knowns in major roles). Both have side games where you have a load of written clues for each map and you use them to find things relating to various characters (things like the Mad Hatter's hat store, Scarecrow's mask, calendar man's cell), and completing things in the side games (and the other achievements) unlocks lots of character bios.

Both games were written by experienced Batman writers from the comics.

[sgt.null]

murrin - sounds cool. i will request for the holidays.

[I'm Murrin]

I will say this about them, the combat gameplay is not great. Very repetative (jump into group of thugs, hold direction button to aim at the one you want to hit, press action button, spam this with different directions to jump around all over hitting all of them).

[dlbpharmd]

I will say this about them, the combat gameplay is not great. Very repetative (jump into group of thugs, hold direction button to aim at the one you want to hit, press action button, spam this with different directions to jump around all over hitting all of them).

Adding combos and gadgets takes combat to a different, more challenging level. I get all OCD about it.

[Holsety]

I hated this film. Terrible acting by all involved, horrible editing and directing. About half of the time, I couldn't understand Bane at all. Subtitles would've been nice.

I really enjoyed the movie, but I also had a problem understanding Bane. I also thought the audio was absolutely horrible for the first scene; understandably so to some extent, but it seemed off even before they got in the plane.

As far as seeing the twist coming.

Spoiler

Despite knowing from "The Animated Series" about Raz's daughter, it never even occurred to me that she might be in the movie, because the cartoon version of Bane IIRC doesn't have any links to the League of Shadows, I didn't really put a lot of thought into Raz or anyone else. That being said, the two stories Nolan takes as Bane origin stories conflict. In one, he suffered terrible wounds while in the prison, and had to have the mask put on. In the other, the child, who Bruce assumes is Bane, has a protector who keeps the child unharmed until the child escapes. The second origin story makes it clear that the child wasn't harmed when the mother was killed due to the protector's interference, and makes it likely that the child escaped from the prison unharmed; moreover, it doesn't elaborate on the fate of the guardian, IIRC, though it shows him being overwhelmed. Once we link Bane as the guardian of the child, it becomes pretty natural to assume there will be another villain. However, despite feeling she was suspicious as early as the first scene, I had made the choice to assume Tate was trustworthy, so her betrayal surprised me. Just goes to show I'm a sucker for rich heiresses.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

Finally saw it, it was a bit of a let down. A good movie that squandered a chance to be great. I felt like the ball was on the 1 yard line, fourth down, closing seconds, tied ball game, and Nolan took a knee. Catwoman was great though -- she reminded me a bit of Batman in the first Nolan movie.

[I'm Murrin]

There's some great stuff in the movie, but it's offset by all the dumb.

[lucimay]

yeesh you guys...i liked it! lol!!!


(well all except the bit with alfred QQ'ing over the grave)


i liked anne hathaway but she's a little on the skinny side.
julie newmar was much more curvaceous!!!