Thoughts on re-reading

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oktophonie
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Thoughts on re-reading

Post by oktophonie »

So. I'm re-reading all the Chronicles so far in preparation for TLD. Recently I started TPTP. As I've been going all sorts of profound (ha!) ideas and realisations have come to me, though obviously in the heat of the moment - since I'm busy reading - I don't write these down and therefore don't remember them.

But I thought I could post some of those I did remember here perhaps as I go. Most likely they'll not be very coherent, but it's something. Maybe there's a better place for this sort of rambling in which case this could all be moved.

I've only read the first two Chronicles once before. They were recommended to me very strongly with the caveat that they are "pretty grim", which they are of course, and I remember them being so when I read them. But I have to say I'm finding it far more so this time round. I suppose that, now, I'm both less overwhelmed by everything, since it's not all new, and my perspective is different in that I am also aware to some extent of where things are going, or where we are in the grand scheme.

But this time even LFB was quite hard going - again perhaps because I'm aware of what the long-term consequences in there are going to be - and TIW is nearly unbearable to read. Not just "that chapter", but really the whole thing. The bleak tone and sense of hopelessness almost all the way through make it a gruelling experience.

In my memory, though, TIW stood out as being rather like that (as does TWL) so it wasn't much of a surprise. But what I did not remember is how distressing TPTP is. I've actually been making very slow progress through it, in part because I can only really take it small doses. One thing I did remember, at least generally, is the "real world" beginning. I've actually always found these to be some of the most memorable and unsettling parts of the Chronicles
Spoiler
(that in ROTE in particular, actually).
And yet as it goes on it seems that each chapter is more horrifying than the last; the big second chapter, alone, is almost too heartbreaking to get through.

That's me being hyperbolic of course. (Hey, I'm on the second beer.) Reading this morning the sixth chapter "The Defence of Mithil Stonedown" [Defense, if you insist] a couple of things did occur to me. One is that I was reminded of how I aware I was that the Land seems very sparsely populated. I know I'm hardly the first person to bring this up, but in the re-read of LFB I did find myself thinking, as I did the first time, that it seemed like the Land was largely empty space; the travelling time between settlements is huge. SRD addresses this in a Gradual Interview question (more or less saying that he describes just what needs to be described, and once you've seen one Stonedown you've seen them all) but the impression prevails. And in this chapter there's a mention of the nearest settlement to Mithil Stonedown being "thirty leagues away", which seems quite a distance to me. One one level I wonder how such a society really could work. But then I wonder about the whole "battle for the Land", since it really seems to be more about the Land itself (geographically) than about its population. If I were feeling uncharitable I might say that that seems a bit self-indulgent (on the part of the Lords) but I think it's rather a reversal of the usual model. The struggle is almost a matter of principle. I suppose that makes sense, given especially given that as far as TC is concerned at this point the whole thing is allegorical/metaphorical anyway.

The other thing is about the descriptive style. I watched recently the SRD interview on his website from June 2004, and was particularly struck by one of his responses where he said that he doesn't see things in his mind then describe them, but rather he only sees them once he's described them. So in other words if he doesn't describe it he doesn't see it. And it sort of clarified something I've been feeling throughout the reread, which is a- and at this point my vocabulary fails me - a different sort of descriptive vividness from the cinematic sort of experience I get from other writers. I suppose it is more internal and emotional; and sometimes the description, even when it's of pretty significant events, is pretty matter-of-fact. For instance:
(...) Then a hoarse shout from the Stonedown rescued him. Looking down, he saw people standing in the centre of the village with their swords and spears upraised. Beyond them, the surviving marauders had fled for their lives towards the open plains. A handful of the defenders gave savage pursuit, harried the creatures to prevent as many as possible from escaping.
Perhaps the point is that the real focus at that particular moment is not really on the end of the battle, but rather on TC who is having a, shall we say, somewhat awkward conversation with Lena (is that a spoiler? Do I need to spoiler-out first-Chronicles spoilers here?), but when I read it this morning, I have to say that what it most reminded me of in style was, bizarrely, the Old Testament, at least in the King James Version. Now I'm not exactly a religious person but I did read the KJV cover to cover last year (and I'm pretty sure that SRD has more than a passing familiarity with the book, even if not in that version). And perhaps I'm exaggerating in the comparison, and also it's no doubt not remotely deliberate, but it is what it made me think of.

I'd better stop now (for now); that was all no doubt incomprehensible enough. It does seem to me that I remember the first two books of both the first two Chronicles far better than the third in each case, so I'm in for a lot of surprises. (I really have next to no recollection of how TPTP ends.)
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Post by Orlion »

Unless the original poster of a thread says otherwise, you do not have to worry about spoilering First and Second Chronicles events. Discussion of events/plots/whatevs of the Last Chronicles should be minimized and spoilered. I'm usually fairly lenient, and sometimes only edit posts about the Last Chronicles on a whim in this forum ;)

The bleakness in these books tend to emphasis the beauty of the rest of it for me. Peace, health, the Land, etc. become all that more important because the alternative is so grim. At the same time, though, I had a friend I introduced these books to who said that though he was experiencing some of the happiest moments of his life, the books brought him back down to earth. When his life went back to normal and he was reading the Second Chronicles, he found himself somewhat depressed :lol:

Writing style, particularly in the First Chronicles, is uniquely Donaldson. I once had another friend reading the first trilogy complain about how hard it was to understand him, even though she was (in her words) an English Major working on her masters! Something I always found odd, because she certainly was not a novice reader. (she breezed through the Titus books by Mervyn Peake, as an example).
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Post by oktophonie »

Oh. One other thing. Maybe I was the only one, but towards the end of TIW as Elena, Covenant et al reach the sunless lake, I couldn't stop thinking of the 'lake of tears' that lies behind the sixth door in Bartok's opera Bluebeard's Castle.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtdmaREL3jo

Not specifically the visual representation in that video (though I rather like it) but rather the unsettling atmosphere the music creates. And indeed the way I've always imagined this scene of the opera in my mind is, I realise, more or less how I imagine that chapter in TIW too. I don't suppose SRD was making any specific reference here though I'd imagine he'll have at least a passing familiarity with this opera (it's a masterpiece after all).
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Post by ussusimiel »

Enjoyable and interesting posts, ingemisco. Thanks for the link to the piece by Bartok, listening to it as I post :lol:

It's interesting to get an insight into an almost-fresh reader's experience of reading the novels. I'm so familiar with them now it's almost a shock to realise (and remember) how visceral they are on an initial reading. 'That chapter' reads more like straight-forward horror rather than fantasy. I'd never read anything (in fantasy) like it before and the impression it left stayed with me for a long time afterwards.

I also now sometimes dip into TIW to read the early chapters because they are one of the only times, in the 1st and 2nd Chrons, when we get to spend a leisurely amount of time in the Land while it's healthy. It's one of the only times when the Land as a character is fully present, and, IMO, this is when we, like Covenant, fall fully in love with the Land. Also in TIW we get meet and see and hear about some of the glories of the Land (and the world of the Land): Amok, the Elohim, Sandgorgons, Melenkurion Skyweir, Earthroot, Caerroil Wildwood.

I also only read certain parts of TPTP, avoiding much of the grimness that Covenant has to endure, so I forget how much of the book is tough-going in emotional terms.

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Post by Zarathustra »

I'm almost done with TIW in my Grand Reread. This is the 5th time for me. My first 2 times were both in high school (late 80s). I was blown away and SRD quickly became my favorite author. I didn't really think it was dark or grim. I thought of it as "potent." I couldn't believe how mere words could convey a soul, a transcendent level of human experience. I read everything he wrote (except the mystery novels), appreciating the maturation of his style through The Gap series. I waited ten years for my 3rd read. I remember not being as impressed that time, compared to the recently finished Gap series. Though the Chronicles were more spiritual and philosophical, I felt the Gap was better written. I waited five more years for the 4th read (2005-6). That's about when I joined the Watch. The Last Chronicles had begun; the GI was going. I was enthralled once again with this story. I couldn't believe I ever had a negative thought about it.

Now that I've read most of the LC, I'm once again on the unimpressed side of this personal scale. I think the story is tighter and more entertaining than the LC, but the writing is not as rich. It's not as smart. For example, the sunless lake in TIW is just ridiculous. Why would you need a boat ride that is activated by talking? Why does Amok act like this is a big secret or a puzzle to figure out--a final obstacle for approaching the 7th Ward--when a 5-yr-old couldn't help but noticing that the boat moves when you talk? This is merely an excuse for Elena to tell her horserite story, a narrative justification to kill the pace and tension on the verge of discovering Kevin's most powerful lore with a story from her youth. A pretty blatant author's trick.

If Hile Troy's plan lived or died on the size of Foul's army, why the hell didn't he make sure his scouts estimated its size??? What's the point of scouting the enemy if you don't acquire such basic knowledge? Again, the author needed the characters to be ignorant of this so he could squeeze some more desperation out of them for a better story. But it's just not believable.

Maybe I've read this too many times. It has lost a certain amount of magic for me. I can't believe it was ever a multi-million best seller. He really lucked out at the time, not having much competition in the fantasy genre. There's no way these same books could have been as successful today.
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Post by Vraith »

Zarathustra wrote: Maybe I've read this too many times. It has lost a certain amount of magic for me. I can't believe it was ever a multi-million best seller. He really lucked out at the time, not having much competition in the fantasy genre. There's no way these same books could have been as successful today.

Heh...does sound like too many readings have made you jaded/overexposed so are seeing the mechanics/shortcomings showing through. Hasn't happened to me too much with the Chron's yet [though the "talk make boat go" thing bugged me from the first read IIR my own thoughts correctly].
I hope it never does...but it has with other well-loved, re-read works, sadly.
OTOH: I think you may be over-rating the quality of the competition out there. To me, there are works that are superior in particular ways but few if any superior over-all.
[and i just flat out disagree with the Hile Troy thing...but I've gone on at length about that in the thread about it.]

But, somewhat connected to part of original post. One of the folk that introduced me to the Chron's won't read the Last cuz, paraphrasing, he doesn't think he remembers enough of the others, but doesn't want to re-read them cuz "I loved the grim back then, like my daughter used to love Goth. I don't think I want to go through it again, though."
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Post by Iolanthe »

Re-reads are affected by so many influences - age at first read, life experience since, other books read since etc. Z you were quite young when you first read them. I was in my 30s in the 80s when I first picked them up. I've just finished re-reading for the 7th or 8th? time up to the end of TPTP, didn't go any further. Each time I read them I understand more, and I still enjoy them. They are not books that I can be detached from; I can't pick them up and put them down again at will; reading them is still an intense experience.
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Post by Orlion »

Yeah, over analyze things enough times, and you will render it into a bag of tricks and sleight of hands. That is really all any novel (or art) is. The good ones, anyway. There is also this game of "Let's second-guess the author!" being played by modern readers today. It gets kinda annoying when people whose combat experience includes playing Starcraft for a bazillion hours try to say something an author decided on makes no sense and take everything out of context.

That last part was actually geared towards someone else on a different, newer book, not at Z's recent critique. I always thought the scouts kept disappearing, so it was impossible to get actual reports. That, and Hile Troy is a confident fellow.

The interesting thing I've noticed is that the more you analyze the First Chronicles, the more you begin to doubt your interpretations. The first time I read them, I understood the motivations, the paradox of the white gold, even why Covenant had to be the one with the ring. Then I re-read it and tried to find proof of these understandings. I achieved nothing until a GI response from SRD confirmed my views.
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Post by Krazy Kat »

Recently re-read Lord Foul's Bane.
I think knowing the story too well can easily detract finding things previously unnoticed.

When Covenant and Co recover the Staff of Law and get lost in the tunnels beneath Mount Thunder while escaping, I found that I'd forgotten how Mhoram refuses Prothall's request to leave him behind by simply finding the will to laugh out loud. The little details can sometimes refresh and enliven old hat.

Reading the reason for Covenant's decition to aid Prothall and call the Fire Lions was particularly poignant. I saw Lena peeking over the lip of the rock shelf, even though she isn't mentioned in the finale. Something to do with Covenant seeing the flat grey clouds stretching towards the horizon as the sun came up. Appropriately, as with nature and law of the story, Covenant leaves the Land as he had entered.

I don't believe I'd been so affected by that series of final scenes before the detonation of white gold and law bring the book to it's dramatic conclusion. Prothal and Lena, done it for me that time. What might the next re-read hold in store, I always look forward to.
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Post by Zarathustra »

Vraith, I don't think I'm jaded. It's all relative: reading better books makes me realize how far the previous books fell short of that quality. As I said, the Gap affected my opinion. And I believe the Second Chronicles are better than the first. I think there are parts of the LC which are much better ... though not overall, and not nearly with the same level of consistency and pace.
Vraith wrote:
I think you may be over-rating the quality of the competition out there. To me, there are works that are superior in particular ways but few if any superior over-all.
Have you read Bakker yet? While I feel the quality of his Aspect Emperor series has fallen with the latest book, I think his writing certainly raises the bar for other writers.

Back to the issue of "grim." That's relative, too. I think the Chronicles balances out TC's suffering with beauty, so it doesn't seem that grim to me. The Gap is much darker, without that corresponding natural beauty to balance it out. And works like Bakker's and Martin's are certainly more gruesome and cruel. Aside from the rape of Lena, the Chronicles are pretty tame.
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Post by Vraith »

Oh, I agree on the relativity [both the initial point and the grim point].
To the extent that I've taken to intentionally NOT reading in particular genres/topics when I'm in certain moods/thought modes.

Heh...in a way, it's either revealing or unfair to measure SRD later [like the Gap] to earlier. I mean the Chron's were his first real work...it makes a difference, which I know you are well aware of [thinking of things parallel in Cail's Rush thread, for instance.]
Bakker is on my list due to folks recommendations here.
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Post by Holsety »

I'm just going to offer my own thoughts on my rereading, quickly...I read the first trilogy, recently, so I'm in a much firmer understanding of those three books than I used to have (I think). But, I read the 2nd chronicles a long time ago, and a long time before the 3rd. For that reason, the 2nd chronicles are almost like a few glimpses into the middle that inform my understanding of the 1st and the 3rd - but not as well as for anyone else here, I'd bet. Unfortunately, I don't have very easy access to The One Tree, so I'll " be forced" to "grudgingly" shell out several bucks for it at some point.
Something I always found odd, because she certainly was not a novice reader. (she breezed through the Titus books by Mervyn Peake, as an example).
That is somewhat odd to me, because the Titus books are not only difficult, but I think they are even more regularly bizarre. But I do think there is something a bit interesting to me about Donaldson's meshing of different styles, that a better reader might find aggravating.
At the same time, though, I had a friend I introduced these books to who said that though he was experiencing some of the happiest moments of his life, the books brought him back down to earth.
For me, it's the "real world" sections of the first books that bring me most back to earth, because even though there's a bit of caricature to them, I think they still hit me in my gut that the fantasy stuff doesn't. I love that even though Covenant doesn't really believe the creator has any power, he still refuses the "nice" offers the creator made. Maybe it's foolish pride, but I don't think so. And I think realizing Covenant's affect on his doctors and his lawyer when he pulls through is more profound than seeing his affect on the land, for my earth. Still very idealized.
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Re: Thoughts on re-reading

Post by Linna Heartbooger »

Welcome to the Watch, ingemisco!
ingemisco wrote:But this time even LFB was quite hard going - again perhaps because I'm aware of what the long-term consequences in there are going to be - and TIW is nearly unbearable to read. Not just "that chapter", but really the whole thing. The bleak tone and sense of hopelessness almost all the way through make it a gruelling experience.

In my memory, though, TIW stood out as being rather like that (as does TWL) so it wasn't much of a surprise.
I remember TIW being like that as well...
At the time, I figured that it was both because of everything "going from bad to worse" and because I was so disturbed by Elena.
I've been re-reading it lately, and realizing that the times when Hile Troy is the POV character are just painful to me.

The first time I read the books, I just assumed that the Land was -not- a dream-- and how could TC possibly not see that?
I "see" so many more things in the story now that I'm aware of TC's very real uncertainty and struggles with the question of whether the world is real.
ingemisco wrote:I have to say that what it most reminded me of in style was, bizarrely, the Old Testament, at least in the King James Version.
Not at all bizarre...
In the Gradual Interview, SRD says, in his answer to someone's question about influences on his style, "The influence of Joseph Conrad, Henry James, William Faulkner, George Meredith, Sir Walter Scott, and others (not to mention the King James Bible <grin>) is everywhere apparent to me."
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Post by iQuestor »

I didnt realize so many watchers were in the middle of a re-read! I am finishing up TIW over the holidays. I have been meaning to finish "It cannot now be set aside, nor passed on..." and needed a refresher. Im reading Tulls Tale right now.
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Post by Zarathustra »

I've started TPTP last week. The quality of the writing is noticeably better than the other two. In fact, each book keeps getting better, as if SRD was coming into his own the more he wrote. I know these books were all written before the first one was published, but it doesn't feel like he did much revision after finishing the third volume in order to bring the others up to the same quality.

Or maybe the story of TPTP is simply more urgent, allowing or motivating him to tap into the heart of his story-telling abilities. He has always said he writes these for the ending.
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Post by iQuestor »

TPTP is a heartbreaker. Its just unrelenting... I dread re-reading it...
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Post by Holsety »

Zarathustra wrote:I've started TPTP last week. The quality of the writing is noticeably better than the other two. In fact, each book keeps getting better, as if SRD was coming into his own the more he wrote. I know these books were all written before the first one was published, but it doesn't feel like he did much revision after finishing the third volume in order to bring the others up to the same quality.

Or maybe the story of TPTP is simply more urgent, allowing or motivating him to tap into the heart of his story-telling abilities. He has always said he writes these for the ending.
I think LFB is an incredibly powerful entry. In a way, I think a series like TCTC is harder to begin than to conclude, when LFB openly vests so much in the white gold and in covenant so early, and Covenant is so unwilling to accept that much responsibility. I won't say any more than that for now.

That wears thin a bit more in TIW, which is why I think Donaldson threw in "supplemental" conflicts (Hile Troy's warward and the giants). I mean, you could keep a lot of TPTP's core plot of Foamfollower had been the only giant, and was "corrupted" solely by what happened with Pietten. The giant-ravers could just be ur-vile-loremasters carrying the illearth stone. I mean, the ur-viles are really amazing. I probably wouldn't have doubted that they could do everything the giant ravers did with the stone, if the giant ravers never existed. But, the giant ravers - as we all know - add something merely by their presence. They are used as tools against the giants, the grieve, the bloodguard, the lords, the people of the land, and revelstone.

TIW drags, but I think that is because we see a slow drag towards Foul's victory. Still, I think that it would be hard to do all the important things that TIW, and still have as good a book as TPTP. What I wrote above would have passed muster, probably, but I don't think it would've worked as well as what we have. I might not even have heard about this series.

But I'll address a complaint you made about TIW, to show why I think you were a bit too critical (but, made excellent points, since I never really gave it much thought).
If Hile Troy's plan lived or died on the size of Foul's army, why the hell didn't he make sure his scouts estimated its size??? What's the point of scouting the enemy if you don't acquire such basic knowledge? Again, the author needed the characters to be ignorant of this so he could squeeze some more desperation out of them for a better story. But it's just not believable.
HT was not a general, he was a tactician, prior to entering the land. He only became a general when he took over from Quaan. And he probably unconsciously assumed the ramen scouts would be as thorough as a soldier in the US army, assuming he ever received a report from an american soldier in his life.

Ya, HT makes mistakes. A general who was a less brilliant tactician, but had more command experience, might have done better. Maybe Quaan should have kept command and used HT as an adviser - but I think that he was a bit too enamored with HT (I don't mean sexually) to doubt HT without doubting himself.
For example, the sunless lake in TIW is just ridiculous. Why would you need a boat ride that is activated by talking? Why does Amok act like this is a big secret or a puzzle to figure out--a final obstacle for approaching the 7th Ward--when a 5-yr-old couldn't help but noticing that the boat moves when you talk? This is merely an excuse for Elena to tell her horserite story, a narrative justification to kill the pace and tension on the verge of discovering Kevin's most powerful lore with a story from her youth. A pretty blatant author's trick.
I don't think Amok acts like it is a big puzzle or a trick. He just acts like it's really clever. And it is. A boat that moves when you talk is a pretty clever trick, if you think it's a boat instead of a bunch of letters.

I think that if a 5 year old had a boat that moved when he talked, he would think it was fucking awesome, if only for a short time. Amok isn't a 5 year old human, but he isn't human, either. Taking him as a fictional character with any kind of agency, allow him pleasure over his creator's little cantrips, since he's about to end his existence. Denying his agency, consider that Kevin enjoys his cantrips and his puppets. But I think Amok has some form of will.

I do agree that it is an excuse, but Elena could have been made to tell the horserite story earlier. The important thing is that she is telling it after Covenant helped her name the power of Command, but before she knows the power of earthblood or drinks it. I think has a critical effect.

Remember Covenant's first spoken response? "What I don't understand is what Foul gets out of this." After this point, he unravels a pretty decent understanding of what Foul gets, and really tries to explain his own duplicity to Elena but Covenant has already played his part for this act. I think this moment has strong psychological ramifications for how Covenant acts even past TPTP.

I still think you are right about TIW though. I don't think it is as good as TPTP. But I think I would class LFB with TPTP before I classed it with TIW (hey, it's just me).

Also, I personally don't rate Earwa as highly as The Land (and I don't just mean for real estate), nor the Dunyain as high as wild magic, but to each his own - I'm still enormously glad Bakker is writing.
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Post by ussusimiel »

As I've said a number of times before TIW is my favourite book of the 1st Chronicles for many different reasons. I have never really thought about the scene on the underground lake, but simply in terms of pacing it provides a period of relief after the drama of Covenant wrangling the name of the Power out of the Haruchai and before the crisis of EarthBlood. It is a final moment of peace between Covenant and Elena. As such, I find it touching and moving.

u.
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The Eighth Ward
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Post by The Eighth Ward »

I have been re-reading recently too, for the umpteenth time since I first read the Chron's in the 70's. Just finished TWL and started TOT. I find my impressions to have changed regarding some of the books...
iQuestor wrote:TPTP is a heartbreaker. Its just unrelenting... I dread re-reading it...
I used to feel this way as well because of Peitten, the hopelessness, the fate of the UnFettered One, the desiccation of the Ranyhyn, the grey sludge everywhere reminding us of the Grey Slayer's dominion...

But this time I found TPTP to be amazingly compelling. TC has finally decided to DO something, and I couldn't wait to watch how it would happen. I rode the wave of TC's passion for restitution, and found little clues in the writing I had not noticed before which had me smacking my forehead like I wanted a V8. And I marveled, as always, at how SRD described different scenes and brought the soul of each event into view (not unique to TPTP of course...).

The first of the "Blue" books, TIW, has always been a paradox for me. Some of my favorite chapters are in TIW: the Tales of Runnik and Tull; we see and are introduced to more of the beauty and mystery of the Land, which I love...
ussusimiel wrote:
I also now sometimes dip into TIW to read the early chapters because they are one of the only times, in the 1st and 2nd Chrons, when we get to spend a leisurely amount of time in the Land while it's healthy. It's one of the only times when the Land as a character is fully present, and, IMO, this is when we, like Covenant, fall fully in love with the Land. Also in TIW we get meet and see and hear about some of the glories of the Land (and the world of the Land): Amok, the Elohim, Sandgorgons, Melenkurion Skyweir, Earthroot, Caerroil Wildwood.

u.
Exactly, thank you.

...but...I...cannot.....stand...Hile Troy!!! "What a Berk!!!" anyone?? I suppose it is not ironic that this blind man could not see his own folly.

Anyway, as I mentioned before, I just finished TWL and, right now, it stands as the best out of the nine so far for me. I did not always feel that way, because being given back something broken felt so harsh. But this time, oh this time, the harshness is ameliorated by the re-discovery of TC's passion for the memory of what was, his ability to inspire Sunder, and then Hollian, and then Hamako, and then Memla, and of course Linden to feel, and share in, his passion and vision. And once again he is striving to DO something!!! In spite of everything, he finds ways to overcome because he is the white gold.

And the new discoveries - the perils of the Sunbane, venom, the Clave, the rhysh, the Dead and Caer Caveral, Vain, coursers, Stonemight, Sarangrave Flat under a Sun of Pestilence, the way TC's dead return to him, the sur-jheherrin, fighting the Lurker, the caamora of the Grieve, ( :Help: someone stop me....!!). This book is so masterfully written, and the renewal of the story is so compelling...

Then there is the second "Blue" book, TOT. Once again a paradox for me. The prospect of traveling the Earth with Giants - we get to experience permanence in motion. Who didn't want that after reading the first Chron's?!?!?!?

But...I...cannot...stand...the....Elohim!!! How useless is their existence??? How is it that TC's former refusal to act has afflicted them??? I know, a very emotional reaction, and not really fair.
Spoiler
The Durance, the Guardian
, the Colossus, these are helpful things. But DAMN - couldn't they have just told him it wouldn't work? That the Worm would be roused?? Did they really have to just silence TC and allow the chancre on the heart of the Earth to grow?? (oh, right, then there would not have been a story...never mind!)

Another thing...in LFB, they retrieved the Staff, a victory of sorts. In TIW though much is lost the hoard of Fleshharrower is destroyed, a victory of sorts. In TPTP, an obvious victory of sorts. In TWL, they survive, and win free of, the Sunbane, a victory of sorts. In TOT, it is the first book that ends in seemingly irremediable defeat as they limp away from the Isle. Ugh!!

(Edit: apparently there is a victory of sorts in TOT. Found it in the post that U recommended. In the Gradual Interview, SRD wrote:
I think of the "transformation" of Vain's forearm as the catalyst which makes his later changes possible. After all, how can you possibly have a Staff of Law that doesn't come from the One Tree? Vain carries the true victory of the Quest for the One Tree with him when Covenant, Linden, etc. flee the sinking Isle.
(09/06/2004)
True victory? Or only victory? I will have to think on this (and not be dismayed) as I continue the re-read.)

Well, such is my inspiration for now. Normally I just lurk around here...
Last edited by The Eighth Ward on Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ussusimiel
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Post by ussusimiel »

Enjoyable post, Eighth Ward. It's always nice when a lurker breaks cover :lol:

Why do you refer to the 'blue' books? Are those the middle books of the trilogies?

I understand people's frustration with Hile Troy. My guess that is that he was originally a plot device that SRD included to act as foil to TC. Personally, I have never had a problem with him (in spite of his flawed war strategy :? ). Until the end of TIW he actually behaves like a straightforward hero. He tries, to the best of his abilities, to help the Land. He's a fallguy really, because we know that you cannot defeat Despite with good intentions.

As for the Elohim, they are horse of thoroughly different kettle of bicycles. I'm not sure how deep your lurking has taken you, but wayfriend's thread, Reading Runes: A Tale of Two Cosmologies throws some (cosmic) light on the possible nature of the Elohim. Personally, when I am doing a reread I always look forward to the Elemesendene part because I think that SRD's heightened style suits the atmosphere there perfectly.

Lurker or poster, be Welcome and True, Eight Ward!

u.
Tho' all the maps of blood and flesh
Are posted on the door,
There's no one who has told us yet
What Boogie Street is for.
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