As if (and other musings)

[StevieG]

I am re-reading all the Covenant series in preparation for the final installment, and one thing I've noticed - especially in Lord Foul's Bane - is SRD's use of "as if". If you can find a single page in LFB that doesn't contain the phrase "as if" I'll give you my life savings of WGDs. And some of the "as ifs" are ridiculous! Anyone else notice this?

It actually distracted me this time - I'm now reading the Illearth War, and haven't noticed it quite as much, but it's still there. I've never really noticed the quality of the writing before because of the intensity of the story, but this time I firmly believe the it improves with each installment.

And by bloody crikey, TC is a frustrating and annoying SOB in LFB. Any Linden haters should read the first Chronicles and experience the complete disdain you feel for TC!

[drew]

And by bloody crikey, TC is a frustrating and annoying SOB in LFB. Any Linden haters should read the first Chronicles and experience the complete disdain you feel for TC!

I couldn't agree more.
Linden doesn't actually cause any problems the way that Covenant does.
In fact, my favorite parts of the FC are when people of the Land actually show distain for Covenant. There are only a few. Atiaran, Trell, and Triock for obvious reasons. But also Quaan; and even Rue of the Ramen somewhat.
One of my favorite lines in LFB is when Quaan threatens to break Covenant's arm if he doesn't shut up.

As for the writing style. Obviously, it got better with time.
I think there is the possibility that he may have been trying too hard, because he had such a great story.

[Zarathustra]

The "as if" comparisons don't bother as much as the "like" similes he overuses. And then there are the mixed metaphors. He definitely gets better as he progresses throughout the series.

Covenant is a SOB. But for some reason he comes off as less whiny than Linden. I'm certainly not a Linden basher, but Covenant is more of an overt asshole, rather than the more internal darkness of Linden.

[wayfriend]

I think there's a Win Wayfriend's Money contest way way back based on Donaldson's penchant for "like a man who". (If there wan't, for sure I thought about doing it.)

[StevieG]

As I am getting through the IllEarth War, I'm enjoying the story more, and noticing the "as if's" less which I'm happy about!

"Like" was definitely another distraction, but I noticed the as if's more this reread.

TC is still a prick - the good thing about this is that I can't remember when I started feeling any passion for him. I'm looking forward to that part. Currently reading pre-war jitters form Hile Troy's POV.

[Krazy Kat]

Stevie G what a terrible thing to say about Covenant. You are joking, right?

[StevieG]

I am trying to read the series as if I were reading it the first time (notice my use of "as if" ). And yeah, up to the point I'm at, TC is unpleasant, brooding, throws courtesy back in people's faces, and is generally a prick. Yes, I understand the conflict of being a leper, and daring to give in to the plight of the Land and the dangers that it presents to his own sanity, but the fact remains that he's acting like a prick.

[Savor Dam]

Yes, Stevie. I am not sure whether Krazy Kat was objecting to your choice of epithet or to the general concept of calling TC out on his behavior in much of the 1st Chrons...but he was far easier to dislike than to like until the latter portions of TPTP.

In fact, I have never entirely understood why so many readers actively dislike Linden and expect her to come to a bad end, yet are TC fans. Presumably, they read the 1st trilogy and experienced how unpleasant TC was...and what SRD made of him. Trust SRD to have a plan for Linden as well, which will probably not be evident until well into TLD.

She found a lot of strength in the last part of WGW, but still has some road to travel...

[Krazy Kat]

What the townspeople did to Covenant, again and again and again, leaves me with nothing but pity. The rusty razorblades was what clinched it for me. Even though there are worse acts commited against him. Once I understood Covenant's predicament I was able to turn the story on it's head.

Stories like the Chronicles (fantasy and rings) are food for the imagination. They leave room for invention. With SRD (and others) these flights of fancy have spaces within the text to allow return. The reader is given a safety net to take ideas where they will, and with a little faith, the return brings success. New spaces emmerge.

What if, for example, Sherrif Lyton and Meagan Roman were dipping into Covenant's funds? Is the bank manger also involved? and so on...
There's no harm in imagining these things, especially when sometimes answers reveal themselves in quite unexpectant ways.

Covenant has always been at times disapointing. But I've never dared to see him as a prick. I would lose faith that even if the Sherrif and Lawyer and who ever else, finally manage to bury Covenant once and for all, somehow somewhere justice will be done.

[Vraith]

I am trying to read the series as if I were reading it the first time (notice my use of "as if" ). And yeah, up to the point I'm at, TC is unpleasant, brooding, throws courtesy back in people's faces, and is generally a prick. Yes, I understand the conflict of being a leper, and daring to give in to the plight of the Land and the dangers that it presents to his own sanity, but the fact remains that he's acting like a prick.

OTOH, unlike 99.9% of pricks, he has good reason to be so...
And, like many newts, but not that many pricks, "he gets better."

[StevieG]

One of the major attractions for me to SRD stories are his character development and TC is no exception. I love his character in the end, but right now, in this point in the story, I dislike it. I agree, KK, that he has been treated horribly in his "real" world. I paid particular attention to this in this reread because I wanted to understand his actions more thoroughly. But really, he's treating those who are actually trying to be courteous to him in a similar way to the way he's been treated in the real world. Is it understandable? Probably. Does it make him a dislikeable character? Absolutely. Has anyone in the Land persecuted him or given him reason to treat them the way he has?

Perhaps "prick" is the wrong word. I agree with SD. His behaviour makes him unlikeable, despite his real world predicament.

[Krazy Kat]

Well Stevie, maybe I was a tad upset with word "prick"; you being a Mod and all. Never mind. The word has differant connatations to each individual.

In the Power That Preserses, Lord Foul's plan to turn the Land leperous and all its people with it, is a good example to see the way Covenant was to bare the brunt of the blame. Now that's penmanship.

[StevieG]

I apologise KK if the word caused offense. Certainly not my intention.

[peter]

Re-read the entire chrons in preparation for The Last Dark - as if! ( )

But seriously, I think you have to cut TC some slack in respect of his 'prickness' by virtue of the absolutely ridiculous impossibility of the situation he finds himself in. Most of us would be cross-eyed up a lamp-post seeing pink elephants in bubbles and waiting for the men in white coats to arive. Lets just re-cap:-

He gets a disfiguring third world disease in his mid-life as a sucessfull writer in the USA. In short order his wife who he loves f*cks of taking his son, his friends and neigbours ostracise and revile him, he is attempted to be run out of town - and thats before he is knocked down by a car, wakes up in a distant place where monsters and gremlins want to kill him, is told by the impossible locals in the impossible world that he is a God and that all that is expected of him is to go out, slay the Devil and save (or damn) the entire world. "YES I FEEL LIKE BEING A PRICK TODAY!"

[Zarathustra]

TC rapes a young teenage girl, and people are upset about calling him a prick? I don't care what happened to him, nothing justifies or even mitigates his crime. "Prick" is taking it easy on him. The guy is a monster. Evil.

Granted, he gets better. But lots of people lose their spouse. Lots of people get a deadly disease. Everyone dies. Lots of people are lonely. If everyone of them ended up raping little girls because they didn't like their lives--and then even more people rushed to their defense against name-calling--this would be a much sadder place.

[peter]

C'mon Z. TC did not rape Lena because he 'didn't like his life'. That is an oversimplification of grand proportions. I agree 'prick' is way too small a name to encompass the crime of TC'a assault on Lena and I agree that nothing ever in the history of justifications could come close to mitigating *that* crime but to not be able to see the act against the backdrop of Covenants situation is to fail to see what SRD as a writer was trying to achieve. TC's bestial act is one that we as the reader have to live with - as does TC himself, but that one act cannot blind the reader to the complexity of the charachter and the situation he finds himself in from that moment onward or it all becomes a waste of time. SRD does not justift TC's act - and neither must we - but he does give us the background to understand that the pure evil of the act is not necceswarily mirrored by pure evil on the part of the perpetrator.

[Zarathustra]

Peter, don't let my simplification mislead you--I've given the subject quite a bit of thought. I understand that in the real world Covenant was alienated from his family, his community, his own body, his manhood, and his humanity. And I understand that in order to deal with this existential crisis, he succumbed to the Law of Leprosy in order to cope with his lost humanity in such a way that it did not drive him to despair and death ... and while that rigid control saved his life, it also made him spiritually impotent, turning him into little more than a "survival machine." Thus, when his health, his sensation, and his connection to humans was suddenly, miraculously restored in the Land, he lost his control in an act that was paradoxically an attempt to regain his control (so that the Land wouldn't drive him insane). Raping Lena was as much an act of rejection (rejecting the reality of the Land to uphold the Law of Leprosy) as it was an act of potency (succumbing to the temptation of the sudden reemergence of his health/sensation/contact).

However, just because his act can be explained and understood doesn't mean that the evil of the act somehow eludes the man himself. Donaldson said that he intended this act to make clear that Covenant actually could go "either way." He didn't pull any punches with the rape, because otherwise all we'd feel is sympathy for Covenant and we wouldn't believe that he actually could save OR damn the Land. Damning the Land had to be a real possibility, or there wouldn't be any legitimate narrative tension (or a legitimate character arc). And that could only be a real possibility if Covenant truly had evil or Despite within him. If he only accidentally damned the Land, that would be a cheap cop-out. The possibility had to come from him being wrong, being what he hated.

And none of that works unless Covenant is indeed a prick.

[Edit: "didn't like his life" is a phrase that has lost much of its impact through casual use. We might use it to talk about whiny college drop outs who blame their lot on society, or middle aged men bored with their wives who buy sports cars to feel alive. But if we restore to this phrase its literal meaning, it becomes another way to state the existential crisis: inauthenticity. Not being True. Not liking your life is the same as not liking the conditions of your Being, your Being-in-the-world. Life is everything. Not liking it is a universal rejection of your Being in itself. It's the same as stating Covenant's multifaceted alienation. It's the greatest tragedy one can experience.]

[Krazy Kat]

LORD
FOUL
BANE
RAVE
RAPE
LENA
.... Wind Cries Mary

[peter]

Nicely put Z and yes - this I can agree with.(I was expecting a roasting )

[Krazy Kat]

Nicely put Z and yes - this I can agree with.(I was expecting a roasting )

LORD
FOUL
BANE
RAVE
PEER
RAPE
LENA
.... Golden Rose