KWBC: The Haunting of Hill House, by Shirley Jackson

[I'm Murrin]

In July, the book club has been reading The Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson. What did you think?


*

First up, I feel like I either read the book too early or should've started this discussion early. It was a very quick read.

All I can really say is that I loved it. It's one of my favourite books I've read this year, although I think I still rank Jackson's We Have Always Lived in the Castle higher.

Jackson excels at inhabiting the perspective of a character, as we see Eleanor's internal thoughts, particularly her insecurity and doubt and the way it sometimes feeds into jealosy and petty anger. In this level of detail the character almost feels real.

Jackson wields this use of her perspective to give us an unreliable story, where the reader can see the way Hill House is beginning to affect her thoughts, and we're also left in doubt as to how much of the supernatural occurences actually took place and were witnessed by the others.

While the haunting itself is very well presented and pretty much defined the haunted house genre, the novel is more about a very lonely and sheltered woman, one treated like a child and servant most of her life, and the way this has affected her psychologically - her desperation for friendship, her inability to believe that people actually like her for who she is, her fear of returning to her life.

[I'm Murrin]

So, anyone else read this book?

[ussusimiel]

I've started it, but I've been v busy in RL so, short and all as it is, I haven't been able to to get a good run at it. I'm enjoying it. The description of the house itself and the characters' reaction to it have been good. The most obvious question (I'm up to p.58 ) is why anyone who feels so negatively towards the house would force themselves to stay in it? There are clear indications of character insecurity in Eleanor and psychic ability in Theodora which may explain their reactions, but their overriding of strongly felt emotions stands out as the oddest thing so far.

Its easy to see how someone like Stephen King (if he read the book) could take the uneasy feelings being generated and amp them up to 11 in no time

u.

[ussusimiel]

Finished it! A very good book, thanks Murrin for recommending it! Not a horror as I was expecting, more like psychological terror with a smidgin of the supernatural thrown in.

Because I thought it was a horror I was expecting someone to die horribly but it kept not happening. The way the character of Eleonora expands and creeps out to inhabit the whole fibre of the house and the story is very unsettling. The growing realisation on the part of the reader that this is all Eleanor's doing (and thus at some level her responsibility) combined with the realisation that there is going to be no redemption or healing makes for a very dark ending to the book. All the people in the house (her family at some level) cast her out so that she is abandoned all over again. The lack of redemption means that in some ways her fate may be a form of hell without the flames. Interestingly in the story there is no mention of God or religion except in the book Hugh Crain put together. Eleanor doesn't seem to have any religious faith (which seems strange now that I think of it).

There is obviously a supernatural element present in the story. Eleanor seems to have poltergeist phenomena associated with her and Hill House itself seems to be some sort of living organism that attracts victims like Eleanor. Some of the events that happen in the house can be put down solely to Eleanor's imagination and fantasy (the voices only she hears, for example), others are less clear. The strangest is the incident with the blood in Theodora's room. At the time it seems that everyone sees it, yet when Mrs. Montague checks the room there is nothing there. It's as if Eleanor is able to impose a spell on those around her. Oddly enough she seems to have little impact on Mrs. Montague and yet her Planchette is able to pick up emanations that relate to Eleanor.

Hill House itself is interesting. The more I read the story the more I saw its influence on Stephen King's The Shining. There are also echoes of Poe's, "The Fall of the House of Usher", in Eleanor's gradual breakdown and the way the house seems to shake in a storm during one of the incidents. To me the house seems to mostly represent the identity of Eleanor in a psychological way. The actual supernatural effects of the house only really seems to relevant to someone, like Eleanor, who is psychologically fragile. The solid Mrs. Montague seems untouched by it, except for the mysterious cold spot outside the nursery (which is never explained). There is obviously something going on at Hill House, but it seems to need a certain kind of person to get it's claws into and the story itself seems to have little interest in exploring or explaining the mystery of the house (which I didn't mind at all).

Plenty more to be said about this and I'll be definitely reading more of Jackson's work. She seems to have been very popular in her day but then fell out of fashion. I suppose when people like King take her stories and amp them off the scale it's hard for readers to get excited about something that on the surface almost seems Victorian in its diction and manners.

u.

[peter]

Many years ago I read Richard Matheson's 'Hell House' which was essentially a re-write of the same story, but upgraded for the tastes of a less prudish time. A good fun 'haunted-house' story which could only whet my appatite to read the earlier novel. There have been 3 (to my knowledge) film versions, all of which I have seen. (the Roddy McDowell version, The Catherine Zeta-Jones version and the first version should I think differentiate between them). All have been fun, and each with it's own merrits. I can't think of a better 'evil house' collection of material (including the Amtyville Horror) and I look forward to tracking down a copy of this novel to complete my set.

[I'm Murrin]

It seems like the problems in Hill House began with the death of the sister and the hanging of her "companion", who was never named. This kind of goes to explain why Eleanor is the one that most identifies with the house: in a sense Eleanor is the companion, having spent her life looking after her mother until she died, and then comitting suicide at the end of the novel, recreating the pattern.

The book they find from Hugh Crain to his daughter is strange, not least because it seems framed as if there's only the one daughter he cared about, and not the other. Makes you wonder if it was actually just another manifestation of the house's power, and not something Crain actually made for his daughter.

[ussusimiel]

...There have been 3 (to my knowledge) film versions, all of which I have seen. (the Roddy McDowell version, The Catherine Zeta-Jones version and the first version should I think differentiate between them).

I saw "The Haunting" (with Catherine Zeta Jones as Theodora) a while back and thought it was ridiculous (good special effects but little else (well Mrs. Douglas is always gorgeous to look at ) It has a 17% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and was nominated for 5 Golden Raspberries!). I hadn't read The Haunting of Hill House at that stage, so while I was reading the book it wasn't until the spiral staircase at the end that I realised that "Haunted House" was based on it.

It seems like the problems in Hill House began with the death of the sister and the hanging of her "companion", who was never named. This kind of goes to explain why Eleanor is the one that most identifies with the house: in a sense Eleanor is the companion, having spent her life looking after her mother until she died, and then comitting suicide at the end of the novel, recreating the pattern.

There were problems with the house from the start as Crain's young wife died when her carriage overturned in the driveway (p.45 in my ebook version). It was as if she was a sacrifice to affirm Hill House in its evil ways. The house does seems to especially affect women and this may be a manifestation of Hugh Crain's obsessive focus on female chastity.

The book they find from Hugh Crain to his daughter is strange, not least because it seems framed as if there's only the one daughter he cared about, and not the other. Makes you wonder if it was actually just another manifestation of the house's power, and not something Crain actually made for his daughter.

The book is really strange. The mixture of religious admonitions and the focus on sexuality seems warped. The possibility that it is a manifestation of the house is interesting. I also hadn't considered that it is for only one of the daughters. Maybe there were two books or maybe the second daughter wasn't of an age when Crain went to Europe and then closed Hill House.

u.

[lucimay]

first off lemme say that I am sorry I didn't comment when this book was being read.

ussus...

the film you saw was not the first film made of this novel and was a disgrace. (HORRIBLE movie. horrible remake.)

this was the original film...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeAzGxWlEcg



I probably saw it around '65 or '66. my dad made sure I knew
that this was a movie made from a book by Shirley Jackson.
I read it for the first time while in my freshman year of high school
after reading The Lottery in freshman English.
it's been my all time favorite book ever since.

I've often said that if I were "in" Fahrenheit 451 and went to the
sanctuary, I would "be" The Haunting of Hill House, because i'd never
want this treasure of a book to be lost.

also I think the first paragraph of the book is one of the best first paragraphs in American literature.

“No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream. Hill House, not sane, stood by itself against its hills, holding darkness within; it had stood so for eighty years and might stand for eighty more. Within, walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and doors were sensibly shut; silence lay steadily against the wood and stone of Hill House, and whatever walked there, walked alone.”

and i'm not alone in that sentiment.


"I think," wrote Stephen King in Danse Macabre, "there are few if any descriptive passages in the English language that are any finer than this; it is the sort of quiet epiphany every writer hopes for: words that somehow transcend the sum of the parts."

for me the story has always been about personal horror and epic tragedy in the guise of a ghost story. i'll try to articulate what I mean but forgive me if I ramble.
it's Eleanor's story. a story of the need to belong somewhere. Eleanor is "the other". outside everything. watching life occur around her but never being able to participate. never included. never belonging. a prisoner watching everyone else have lives. everything in the story reflects this. the bizarreness of the house that hugh crane built, the solitary lives of his children, the crane daughter that grows old in the house, the companion.
Theodora is the woman Eleanor would have liked to have been, Luke, the cad she would've liked to had a fling with, the Professor, the man she would liked to have married.
but Eleanor knows she is "the other".
her internal dialogue on her journey to hill house belies a desire for separateness and peace.

"Don‟t do it, Eleanor told the little girl; insist on your cup of stars; once they have trapped you into being like everyone else you will never see your cup of stars again; don‟t do it; and the little girl glanced at her, and smiled a little subtle, dimpling, wholly comprehending smile and shook her head stubbornly at the glass. Brave girl, Eleanor thought; wise, brave girl."

and


"She nearly stopped forever just outside Ashton, because she came to a tiny cottage buried in a garden. I could live there all alone, she thought, slowing the car to look down the winding garden path to the small blue front door with, perfectly, a white cat on the step. No one would ever find me there, either, behind all those roses, and just to make sure I would plant oleanders by the road. I will light a fire in the cool evenings and toast apples at my own hearth. I will raise white cats and sew white curtains for the windows and sometimes come out of my door to go to the store to buy cinnamon and tea and thread."




I don't think that the things Eleanor hears or sees that no one else does
are in her head or imagination. I think she is the only one *receptive* to
the house because of the non-life she has led.

"She could not remember ever being truly happy in her adult life; her years with her mother had built up devotedly around small guilts and small reproaches, constant weariness, and unending despair...Eleanor, in short, would have gone anywhere."

the need and desire to belong was so strong that even though she knew she *should* leave the house, in the end, she could not. the allure of belonging, of being a part of something was too great.
even as she's turning the car into the tree she has two distinctly different thoughts, "i'm doing this, i'm really really doing this" and then "why? why am I doing this?"

well I've rambled enough. I think you can see that I love the story.
my digital and hard copies of this book are always close at hand. heh.

[lucimay]

first off lemme say that I am sorry I didn't comment when this book was being read.

ussus...

the film you saw was not the first film made of this novel and was a disgrace. (HORRIBLE movie. horrible remake.)

this was the original film...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeAzGxWlEcg



I probably saw it around '65 or '66. my dad made sure I knew
that this was a movie made from a book by Shirley Jackson.
I read it for the first time while in my freshman year of high school
after reading The Lottery in freshman English.
it's been my all time favorite book ever since.

I've often said that if I were "in" Fahrenheit 451 and went to the
sanctuary, I would "be" The Haunting of Hill House, because i'd never
want this treasure of a book to be lost.

also I think the first paragraph of the book is one of the best first paragraphs in American literature.

“No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream. Hill House, not sane, stood by itself against its hills, holding darkness within; it had stood so for eighty years and might stand for eighty more. Within, walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and doors were sensibly shut; silence lay steadily against the wood and stone of Hill House, and whatever walked there, walked alone.”

and i'm not alone in that sentiment.


"I think," wrote Stephen King in Danse Macabre, "there are few if any descriptive passages in the English language that are any finer than this; it is the sort of quiet epiphany every writer hopes for: words that somehow transcend the sum of the parts."

for me the story has always been about personal horror and epic tragedy in the guise of a ghost story. i'll try to articulate what I mean but forgive me if I ramble.
it's Eleanor's story. a story of the need to belong somewhere. Eleanor is "the other". outside everything. watching life occur around her but never being able to participate. never included. never belonging. a prisoner watching everyone else have lives. everything in the story reflects this. the bizarreness of the house that hugh crane built, the solitary lives of his children, the crane daughter that grows old in the house, the companion.
Theodora is the woman Eleanor would have liked to have been, Luke, the cad she would've liked to had a fling with, the Professor, the man she would liked to have married.

but Eleanor knows she is "the other". her internal dialogue on her journey to hill house belies a desire for separateness, peace, and self acceptance.


"Don‟t do it, Eleanor told the little girl; insist on your cup of stars; once they have trapped you into being like everyone else you will never see your cup of stars again; don‟t do it; and the little girl glanced at her, and smiled a little subtle, dimpling, wholly comprehending smile and shook her head stubbornly at the glass. Brave girl, Eleanor thought; wise, brave girl."

and

"She nearly stopped forever just outside Ashton, because she came to a tiny cottage buried in a garden. I could live there all alone, she thought, slowing the car to look down the winding garden path to the small blue front door with, perfectly, a white cat on the step. No one would ever find me there, either, behind all those roses, and just to make sure I would plant oleanders by the road. I will light a fire in the cool evenings and toast apples at my own hearth. I will raise white cats and sew white curtains for the windows and sometimes come out of my door to go to the store to buy cinnamon and tea and thread."

she sees conformity as a trap and would plant poisonous flowers to ensure her privacy!
it's a dichotomous conflict, the desire to belong and the desire to remain "different."


I don't think that the things Eleanor hears or sees that no one else does
are in her head or imagination. I think she is the only one *receptive* to
the house because of the non-life she has led.

"She could not remember ever being truly happy in her adult life; her years with her mother had built up devotedly around small guilts and small reproaches, constant weariness, and unending despair...Eleanor, in short, would have gone anywhere."

the need and desire to belong was so strong that even though she knew she *should* leave the house, in the end, she could not. the allure of belonging, of being a part of something was too great.
even as she's turning the car into the tree she has two distinctly different thoughts, "i'm doing this, i'm really really doing this" and then "why? why am I doing this?"

well I've rambled enough. I think you can see that I love the story.
my digital and hard copies of this book are always close at hand. heh.