Ummm - so how is this the "Last"?

[Ossie1972]

In the Gradual Interview, SRD went to great lengths on several occasions to indicate that this story would make TLC "about as last as you can get".

The end result is that Lord Foul is within Covenant, who is now mortal again and will presumably die at some point, releasing Foul. Moksha has already been released by Jeremiah. So at some point in the next 100 years, we're back to where we were at the end of TC or T2C.

I think it's pretty clear this will be the last time SRD returns to Covenant, but there was nothing "last" about the end of the story. (Now LF entering Jeremiah instead, and Jeremiah learning to contain him the way he contained moksha, and having TC butcher Jeremiah into tiny pieces with the krill in front of Linden the way we saw with Clyme and turiya - *that* I would have enjoyed reading........).

Nonetheless I'm glad we got one more return to the Land. It wasn't quite the impactful end the way I felt with TPTP and WGW, but SRD has enough credit in my bank to be satisfied.

[dlbpharmd]

Not to mention that the Land will contain 2 white gold rings which will surely fall into the wrong hands at some point.

I agree though, and have said so several times already. TLD leaves as many "loose strings" as WGW.

[Zarathustra]

SRD argued against calling it the "final" Chronicles because the word "final" was more final than "last." Last is merely the endpoint of a particular series, not the end of all things. So it's the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant because SRD doesn't have anywhere else for TC's story to go, not because it's impossible to tell more stories in that world.

TC has achieved his ultimate solution to his own personal quandary by becoming whole. Everything about his character arc and his initial conflict is solved. That's when your story is over. Otherwise, it's no longer a character-driven story about Thomas Covenant. It's something else.

[Ossie1972]

Very true I guess Zarathustra. It's TLCOTC, not the final result of LF's struggle against the Land. I guess most people, after ten books and 30+ years, were expecting the latter, although on review it's quite obvious that SRD was always being clear on that point. And being the writer SRD is, his ideas are always going to be character-driven, rather than story-driven.

As I said both the first two chronicles had a more "final" feel to me, but it's been great to finally finish the story.

[DrPaul]

The Last Chronicles could be the Final Chronicles if they ended in something like the Christian Apocalypse, the Norse Ragnarok and subsequent perfect recreation of the world, Tolkien's Dagor Dagorach and subsequent perfect recreation of the world, the maturation of Hegel's Absolute or the final creation of Olaf Stapledon's Star Maker.

Then again, within the terms of the cosmology of the Chronicles they could have been the Final Chronicles if Lord Foul had achieved his "deeper purpose" and imprisoned the Creator to prevent all future creation.

However, in any scenario in which the cosmic principles represented by the Creator, Foul and She remain active, life and death go on.

Also, I think the issue of Covenant's mortality or otherwise is left more open in TLD than the opening post suggests.

[SkurjMaster]

I did not take it that TC, LA, or Jeremiah were left mortal. They survived the destruction of the world and put it back together. I took it that they had assumed the mantle of immortal protectors?

[lurch]

You make statements in the OP that are not true.. The real world is Dead to the characters..TC won't die some day and release Foul, because TC is no longer of the REAL World.. Linden, Jeremiah,,dead..no longer of the REAL World...So ,,as is,,the Real World and its properties,,are no longer applicable. TC,,with Foul inside of him..isn't gonna die some day releasing Foul..because TC is already dead..as a Real World Character..As plain as day as the author can make it easy..the characters exist in the realm of Metaphor..Yet they seem to us as Real as Ever...and that my friends,,is the challenge the reader must grasp...so much of the Real World is illusion,,and for Truth of Our Selves,,Who We Are,,the message is in the Metaphor..Your LAND awaits for You to explore and find Your Self in.

[Ossie1972]

Huh. Not what I got from the story at all, lurch. The only other example is Hile Troy, and I never saw any indication that he was now immortal in the Land. TC doesn't count obviously as he was burned into the Arch. And now that he has been resurrected, I considered that he, Linden, Jeremiah, Joan, Roger & anyone else translated from the (storyline) "real world" will live and die just like any other mortal resident of the Land.

I guess SkurjMaster's assumption could be correct, but I don't think that the entire other population of the Land was killed in the destruction of the world. Stave is pretty clear in stating that new Lords will be made - unless they are going to always be Haruchai or Giants, there had to be some humans left

[Zarathustra]

Yeah, I didn't get a sense of immortality, either. But that doesn't mean Foul will be released upon TC's death. Maybe it means that Foul is now mortal, and dies w/TC ... since Foul is TC's own personal dark side.

However, Lurch is right to caution against anything being too literal in the Land. It's not *all* metaphor, but it is a mixture. (If it were all metaphor, there would be no point in bringing "real world" people to this place.)

The bit about Foul's "deeper purpose" got me thinking, however. He intended to trap the Creator. Well, if the Creator is TC's positive, creative side, and that's now forever confined to the Land, then perhaps Foul actually succeeded, but didn't understand that this was a good thing. From his perspective it looks like a victory for him, but since he's part of TC, it's actually a victory for TC. Since they're now one, then Foul's goals are TC's goals. TC has accepted those goals within himself by accepting Foul within himself.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

[]

[Ossie1972]

Yeah good points both. So sparkly vampires it is

[Zarathustra]

Well, then why are they "halfway there," or leaving or entering? Clearly, some implied ambiguity is intentional. Perhaps this ambiguity lies in the space between symbol and that which is symbolized. It's not actually literal spirits, or literal immortality. We've seen lots of examples already where these characters are glowing with wild magic. Supernal doesn't necessarily entail immortality. After all, aren't each of us already "halfway there" between spirit and body, or (for someone like me who doesn't believe in spirits), somewhere in the middle of the mind/body spectrum? Just because there is a part of me that's matter, and a part of me that transcends my matter, doesn't mean I'm immortal. Mind is immaterial, but it's very much finite and dependent upon the body.

[sdbarnhart]

A couple of thoughts...First, Sunder and Holian both glowed silver but were clearly mortal so I don't think we can read anything definitive into the appearance of Covenant, Linden, and Jeremiah...Second, the fact that SRD called this work The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant doesn't preclude him from writing...wait for it...The First Chronicles of Linden Avery (The Annoying).

[Ossie1972]

The First Chronicles of Linden Avery (The Annoying).

"FLAWLESS VICTORY!"

This is why I wanted TC to butcher precious Jeremiah into Raver chunks for the greater good of the Land

[shadowbinding shoe]

In the past service to the Land enabled service... by prologing the lifetime of the servers. In the case of of the Bloodguard apparently indefinitely.

So Covenant's service to the Land will surely make him unaging.

But I had the impression from the story that Covenant's amalgation of Foul was not intended to be everlasting. His plan is to teach Despite goodness and hope so that eventully he could be set free as a force of good. The whole Last Chronicles is saturated with hints that Foul's character is not that one sided and unchangeable.