Suggesting Changes to the Last Chronicles

Post by **SkurjMaster** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:56 am

Dear All,

I was having a good old time in the 'Last Dark Rewrite' thread, but it has been locked. To which I respond:

If the 'arbiters' of the Watch are going to be fair, then a more efficient way to 'arbit' would be to ban the offending parties. I was making what I thought was the intended use of the Watch to discuss the Chronicles. If you can point out anything that I did wrong in the thread that I started, then proceed. I will accept the punishment.

I would also like to point out that the situation escalated after the somewhat reactionary post by Seareach. Yes, there were some responses to that post, but it started there.

So, my question to the 'arbiters' is how is clamping down a thread that is presumably here for the free discussion of a story put together by what I presume is one of our collective (if not THE) favorite author the most just move?

If this is the way that this discussion forum is going to work, then maybe people need to start considering other outlets for SRD discussions. Of course, now that the Last Chronicles is done, maybe the Watch is a little less useful anyway.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:10 am

I didn't even read the Rewrite thread until it got locked.

That just called my attention to it. I was impressed by Mighara's fan fiction, even though that's not my thing. I certainly don't think any of us could out-Donaldson SRD himself, but there's no need to call people delusional for having fun with the idea. There's a lot of "you people are wrong" going around lately, and it seems always to come from those who liked the book directed at those who don't. It's not exactly an inviting environment for discussion. But perhaps they think our criticisms and negativity make it less inviting for those who enjoyed the LC. Fair points on both sides, perhaps.

With that said, you're probably not going to get far criticizing established members here, or trying to pin blame on the hierarchy of those close to Donaldson himself, or who those run the site. I'm grateful for this place, but it has its cliques just like any other. Heck, if I was close to Donaldson, or the admins here, I might think my opinion carried more weight, too. It's understandable. It's their site.

Post by **lurch** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:37 am

some body is feeling a bit threatened...oh my...

Post by **Savor Dam** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:17 am

Months ago, when the various anti-TLD threads created a critical mass that discouraged Wayfriend, Menolly and others from contributing to the Last Chrons discussion, I started A Positive Thread About TLD with the intent of providing a place that encouraged appreciation without suggesting that criticism did not have a place.

What happened in the Rewrite thread over the past few days was that someone blissfully unaware of SRD's actual process started picking faults with it...and when those who knew the score tried gently to divert him, he got prickly about it. That dlb locked the thread was not surprising.

Are the LCs perfect? Is TLD? Perhaps not...but I encourage any with substantive questions to come to Elohimfest next June, speak with all of us, then with the knowledge gained from the KW community in face-to-face discussion (not intertube disputation!), then ask SRD your questions when we dine with him.

There is room for all opinions...but respect for all, and appreciation for what SRD has accomplished with these books (and for those who have read along throughout the journey, whether as his few personal readers or as we many fan-readers) certainly does not come amiss.

Post by **SleeplessOne** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:13 am

It's interesting to watch the tensions develop in recent weeks/days on this site between usually-reasonable people.

We presumably all originally registered as passionate SRD fans, and I'd wager that virtually everyone here still considers themselves a passionate SRD fan, regardless of their feelings concerning the Last Chronicles (and particularly the Last Dark).

IMO the immeadiacy of the Internet subtly encourages people to rush to judgement in an effort to voice their opinion; we all like to be heard and consider our own opinions important, and none of us want to see our voices lost or trailing behind in the scramble to be a part of the latest zeitgeist-y moment.

Consider : when the first and second chronicles were released, there was no widespread, common meeting place for people to discuss their reactions and feelings about the books.
We had to live with them for a while, digest them, mull them over, perhaps even re-read, or at least re-read sections.

If you were lucky enough to meet another TC/SRD reader, it led to genuine discussion as each party tried to parse what the books meant to them, and also how much weight to give to the opinion of another.

Now we can skim a few threads and get a general vibe of how the majority of fans have reacted.

When I *really* think back to my initial reactions to the first and second chronicles, it's instructive, because while I love the books it was a love that grew over time - I was initially ambivalent about much of what I'd read.

I laboured through LFB.
The 2nd chrons had long sections which I struggled with at the time.
But now, years later, I have a clearer grasp of the books and I can breeze through them while still picking up new details and fleshing out philosophical concepts in my mind.

I'll keep my initial reactions to TLC to myself at the moment, suffice to say I think overall TLC is as dense as any of SRD's previous TC books, and as such the least they deserve from me is a considered reaction.

So, I'm still in the process of 'considering' - this could take months or even years, I have no idea.
I am quite certain that re-reads will illuminate parts of TLC which may seem opaque (or even sloppy).
I have re-read sections of the first three Last Chronicles books, and have found that each offers more upon further examination.
In my heart I hold reservations, because my initial reaction to the first chronicles in particular was so overwhelmingly positive (despite my struggle with LFB in the beginning) - I didn't get that feeling on completion of TLC, but then again it's a different kind of story.

I must say though, with the breadth of my reading habits increasing over the years, it does get harder and harder to justify devoting precious free-time to re-reads!

Post by **Savor Dam** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:26 am

While Melbourne is far from Albuquerque, I encourage SleeplessOne to come to Elohimfest next June, just as I encourage The Fallen on one hand and Icarus Unfallen on the other, to come interact face-to-face with the gathered SRD fanbase, both the satisfied and those less satisfied.

While Kevin's Watch is an incredibly diverse forum, there is no substitute for gathering together in person as a community to celebrate and discuss SRD's works.

Being someone who came of age in the '70s...I gotta channel Dave Loggins:

Please come to 'querque
And meet the Watchers
Andelain and Revelstone
Are just a thought away
You can put face to all our names
And dine at last with SRD himself
Please come to 'querque
Don't say No...
It's just the place to be

Post by **TheFallen** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:28 am

It's pretty simple, really.

There are those who believe the Last Chrons to be an unparalleled masterpiece, that fully matches up to - and even surpasses - the First and Second Chrons.

Then there are those who believe the Last Chrons to be flawed. Not "bad" or "hopeless" or "unworthy", just "flawed", and as such that they don't meet the self-set standards of the First and Second Chrons.

Not that it'll come as a great surprise to anyone, but I tend to find myself with not a few others in the latter camp and I've clearly stated why (insert paragraphs of me banging on about lack of sufficient authorial care and attention paid to the narrative level here).

I'm passionate about SRD, having loved his other works. Hence I'm also passionate in my (entirely personal and subjective) disappointment in the Last Chrons - and in an effort to be evidential, I have laid out the reasons for my disappointment clearly, because I believe that, in order to be worthwhile, expressed opinions should be be supported by evidence.

HOWEVER, I'm also genuinely pleased for people who love the Last Chrons. That's great and I absolutely acknowledge their right to their positive opinions. I equally and just as passionately believe that there's no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to a necessarily subjective appreciation of a piece of art, whether such appreciation results in a positive or a negative opinion. Needless to say that it's always more pleasant to have a positive reaction evoked in oneself - hence my being pleased for those who adore the LCs.

Nevertheless, Z is sadly absolutely right when he points to the level and more importantly the direction of sniping from those with differing opinions on the Last Chrons. I too believe that such sniping is primarily aimed by those who adore the LCs at those who are more disappointed in them. It takes the form of both implication and on occasion direct statement that "you people are wrong/just don't get it/are delusional/ill-educated/less than sane" and that's really not a helpful thing, giving rise to the seeming appearance of completely unnecessary and inappropriate smarter-than-thou élitism.

And as if by magic (and with staggering irony), there's an entirely unnecessary and typically snide one-liner higher up in this very thread. Also elsewhere, I see with heavy heart that there's deliberate provocation towards a thread-locking row by it getting unilaterally both patronising and personal in the up till now calm and interesting "Logic of Appointment" thread. Both instances starkly display that supercilious "smarter than thou"-ism I just mentioned and equally, both events neatly and conclusively go to underline Z's assertion.

Frankly it's a crying shame that one or two people apparently can't live and let live - especially and ironically those who insist that they've understood the core message of TLD. Well, it could certainly be seen to be about one needing to embrace one's alter-ego, to accept one's counter-opining self, in order to become whole. Perhaps people should try taking this on board and being a little more tolerant and a lot less authoritarian? There's literally nothing worthwhile in any form of interpretative fascism.

In all honesty, I really don't understand why there are such (thankfully rare) individuals who simply cannot countenance any negative opinion on SRD, doing their apparent utmost to carp and snipe at those expressing criticism and endeavouring to derail threads that dare to be critical, or that express opinions that run in any way counter to their own view. Aren't two of the most important phrases in the English language a) "let's agree to differ" and b) "vive la différence"? (Okay, so the second one wasn't English... so sue me).

I just don't get this apparent fervid aggression on the part of a very VERY few TLD supporters/apologists - to me, it's both counter-productive and unpleasant. I mean, surely we're all extremely interested in the works of SRD, or we wouldn't be here on the Watch at all? Surely nobody would want this place to be nothing but a fawning SRD love-in - how futile and arid would that be? And therefore surely it's both vibrant and healthy to have both opinion and counter-opinion expressed? If sincerely held, both are equally valid, let's not forget.

To use an analogy - and to show my age and entire lack of current hip-ness (though I'm clearly not quite as un-hip as SD... Dave Loggins? Really?) - Pink Floyd are one of my favourite bands, peaking IMO with the god-like creations of both Wish You Were Here and Animals. But dammit, I was really disappointed at what I saw as Roger Waters' overblown self-indulgence as demonstrated in The Wall, which flawed that album. Didn't ruin it completely (it's got one or two of Floyd's best-ever tracks on it) but nevertheless flawed it as a whole. Doesn't mean that they're not a great band...

...and anyway, it's just my opinion. A genuinely held one though.

On a separate note, I've been told elsewhere about SRD's use of beta readers and his "notorious obstinacy to their suggestions and criticisms". Sure, I understand that it must be very hard for any artist to hear that his/her creation could be improved - but if an author's going to go to the frankly courageous effort of (very sensibly) seeking trusted third party opinion to get a more objective take on his creation prior to publication, if - as I have also been told - he is then reluctant to pay attention to such well-intentioned critique that he himself presumably sought out in the first place, then that continues to surprise me.

Post by **Savor Dam** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:02 pm

Un-hip? Yes, I suppose I have to own that. However, when writing spur-of-the-moment song parodies at a late hour, one takes inspiration where one finds it.

FWIW, I knocked off the lyric first...then had to look up to whom the tune needed to be attributed.

Post by **aliantha** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:17 pm

I hesitate to weigh in, since I haven't been around the Watch lately and have only come in on the tail end of the fuss. And I'm sure whatever I post will be construed as comments coming from "one of the clique" or whatever. But here goes anyway.

After I finished reading the ARC, I was excited to discuss TLD with my fellow Watchers. And then, the first time I came in here after the release, I realized it wasn't going to be any fun for me. Why? Because I really liked the book and I *really* liked the ending. But the discussion here struck me as being co-opted by people who hated the book. That's fine, as far as it goes -- everybody's entitled to his/her opinion (even if it's wrong!

). And there's nothing wrong with criticism. But there's a right way to criticize a work of literature -- and what I was seeing wasn't it. To me, it felt like the Tank mentality had bled out into an SRD forum. So I haven't been back.

I suspect the rewrite thread got locked because someone was attacking a Watcher -- obliquely and, I gather, unknowingly, but still. If you say something in a public forum like, "SRD's beta readers did a lousy job," and are informed that those beta readers are Watchers who might very well be reading your post, your best course of action at that point is to say, "Oops, sorry," and shut up. And that's not what happened.

SRD has been a published author for nearly 40 years. He spent three years writing TLD. If you don't like the book, or if it didn't meet with your expectations for whatever reason -- okay, I guess. Your loss. If you think you could do a better job of writing it yourself, I invite you to try -- and then post your work here at the Watch, so others can pick it apart the way you guys are doing with TLD. That seems only fair. And if the thought of somebody reaming your own work makes you uncomfortable, then maybe you should think twice about what you've typed in regard to TLD, and in regard to SRD and his beta readers, before you hit "submit."

Post by **peter** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:08 pm

Whooah! [peter shivers] TLD forum got pretty intense since I was last here! The Watch for me is just another way that SRD has enriched my life from the age of 18 to nearly 60 [how old must SRD be by now?]. No - I'm not a Last Chrons fan but no - I could not do better either. I also don't believe any one of us who feel this way would wish by our arguments to diminish by one iota, by one jot, the pleasure that people who do not see things as we do, have gotten from the 3rd Chrons or TLD in particular. I would be mortified if I felt our discussion was doing this. We seek to learn do we not. Maybe even to learn to love that which we now fail to understand. For what purpose do we discuss if not to this end - surely not for the destructive end of spoiling anothers joy. What a beastly mean place it would be if this were the case. I take joy from the fact that there is in the Last Chrons that which can be loved. Maybe one day I'll wake up and [eureka] see it - for me the Chrons then is by no means finished; my jouney still has far to go. And the Watch is now [sorry SRD] much more than 'tne Chrons [though of course they are central to it still] - but no, much bigger - much bigger. Remember - we are drawn here by the Chrons, but we stay because we want too. Cliques and stuff are for elsewhere really - this is the Watch.

Post by **Savor Dam** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:17 am

peter wrote:[how old must SRD be by now?]

SRD turned 66 last May.

Post by **lurch** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:37 am

Alia..yes..from an admirer of the last Chrons and TLD, I agree with your sentiments and have actually typed out very similar sentiments only to delete . Its to the point where i believe some of the poster haven't actually read the book or books. What is being posted in the negative makes me sense ,that much hasn't been actually read. So why even bother ? And the totally lack of Vocabulary that would be appropo suggests as you hint at..self appointed critics should learn abit before putting forth the pretense of being a respectable critic. That bit of observation suggests this Drama is about ..as Donaldson himself put it..folks making excuse for not opening themselves up to the books..not exposing their humanity, their feelings, to the machinations of the author. IMHO..to stay with the author this far, this long, this deep into the TCoTC,,,there should be no question to opening ones " self' to the authors massage. This far in would suggest a Demand of Being massaged. The rub has been the massgae simply wasn't there. Yet you myself, and others,,felt the probing fingers of the author on our raw nerves..Yet,,Getting It..while admitted to in the negative sense..I didn't feel that..I didn't feel this.. the author failed to make me feel..etc etc..has been made a big Drama Point by the how dare anybody say I didn't get it crowd...even after they say the author didn't get them to feel anything..So..its just a game of making it the author's fault..even when folks say,,well i certainly was moved..I certainly felt the author's massage.. The Author was successful for me..or..with me....It can be said the author failed them..but it can't be said they didn't get it...We are being played for their want to have it both ways.

Post by **DrPaul** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:47 am

This discussion has reminded me of the old Yiddish proveeb: "Be careful what you wish for. You might get it."

I think that everyone who read and enjoyed the 1st and 2nd Chronicles would have hankered for a 3rd (or Last) Chronicles to be written at some stage. I know that I hoped for it.

At the same time, thinking maturely about it we probably should have realised - and certainly should now recognise - that:

(a) when SRD wrote The Last Chronicles he would be a different writer; and
(b) when we read The Last Chronicles we as readers would be different people.

It follows from (a) that either SRD's abilities may not now have been what they were when he was in his 20s and 30s and/or his approach to and thinking writing may have changed in ways that were not necessarily to our liking. If follows from (b) that our own responses would be different - would a like The First Chronicles as much if I came to it for the first time as a 50-something person rather than a 21 year old?

I could imagine myself finding the money to fork out for a ticket to a Led Zeppelin concert if they came to Australia next year, and I wouldn't feel let down just because Robert Plant didn't sing the same way in his mid-60s as he sang in his early-mid 20s.

Post by **peter** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:08 am

As a person who didn't really 'get' the 3rd Chrons from start to finish, can I just disect the responses of people to TLD in particular [ie seen as a denoument] as opposed to their view of the Last Chrons as an entirety.

Do you guys get the idea that there are people out there who loved the 3rd Chrons up intill the end of book 3 - and then hated the denoument givden in TLD [ie let down by the way the series was wrapped up rather than by the series as a whole] ...OR..... are the vast majority of TLD detractors people who had already had their hopes 'dashed' by what they had experienced in the reading of the first 3 books. [I definitely fall into the latter catagory; a shallow reader at the best of times I just loved the stories of the first and second Chrons - there was never any need for deeper meaning for me - and the more introspective nature of the third [always going to be the case with Linden as the central charachter] just did not do it for me.]

{SRD is 66yo. That makes hin about ten years older than me and means he wrote the Ist Chrons while he was in his twenties while I was......sorry - it's a blank; I can't remember what I was doing in my twenties.}

Post by **shadowbinding shoe** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:55 am

Offering suggestions on how to rewrite the Last Chrons is very presumptuous not to mention insulting (to the author. Fan-fury is another matter). It's one thing to critique a work of art, people are free to express their opinions about what they read but the rewrite discussion took this a step further. Donaldson is not our serveant and his works are a gift to us we should no presume to order him on his choices, demanding rewrites or filching his works for dark-room facelift operations (buying a book is all said and done only an aquisition of a physical copy of the work, nothing more and with today's accessability to information we cannot say we are uninformed beforehand)

So I didn't add any post to the rewrite thread despite having qualms about the LCs.

Post by **TheFallen** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:04 am

lurch wrote:Alia..yes..from an admirer of the last Chrons and TLD, I agree with your sentiments and have actually typed out very similar sentiments only to delete . Its to the point where i believe some of the poster haven't actually read the book or books. What is being posted in the negative makes me sense ,that much hasn't been actually read.

...or alternatively those who have been in some way disappointed by TLD have experienced that disappointment precisely because they absolutely have read all that was written and very possibly more than once - they just didn't get that which you did out of it. And speaking as someone who was in some way disappointed, trust me, as God is my witness, I really did not want to be - I wanted to hold the LCs and TLD in particular as the series' culmination in the same respect and admiration as I did (and do) the First and Second Chrons. It didn't happen for me - however, such a thing doesn't make either me or indeed you wrong. In fact, the concept of a "right" or "wrong" take on the LCs is fallacious in and of itself.

lurch wrote:So why even bother ?

Because maybe, just maybe, folks are equally as passionate as you about SRD - hence any feelings of disappointment, if experienced, would be heightened. Moreover, a healthy discussion forum is surely about the expression of multiple differing opinions and, were it censored to allow only positive comment, what a facile and sterile "love-in" it would be. That's why I for one "bother" - I'm interested in both sharing my opinion with a relevant community and more importantly hearing (NOT dismissing) the opinions of others.

lurch wrote: And the totally lack of Vocabulary that would be appropo suggests as you hint at..self appointed critics should learn abit before putting forth the pretense of being a respectable critic.

Although I've stated my firm belief that any reaction evoked by a work of art is equally valid, I do agree that informed criticism tends to be more relevant. However, with respect, it's a tad presumptuous to then believe that anyone who doesn't appreciate the LCs must ergo be ill-informed/less learned, since none of us has the slightest idea of the erudition or "learned-ness" of anyone else. That is therefore sadly an unsupportable non sequitur which as such is truly not à propos. You also fail to realise that anyone expressing an opinion in this forum on the LCs is de naturis a self-appointed critic, even if their conclusion is that the LCs are a work of flawless and profound majesty - that's still absolutely a critical judgement, so were your point about people needing to "learn abit (sic) before putting forth the pretense (sic) of being a respectable critic" even valid, it'd also and absolutely equally apply to anyone expressing a positive reaction.

lurch wrote:That bit of observation suggests this Drama is about ..as Donaldson himself put it..folks making excuse for not opening themselves up to the books..not exposing their humanity, their feelings, to the machinations of the author.

A completely supportable counter point of view - one which I actually wouldn't espouse - would be to make the blanket statement that some people have such a long-term emotional investment in the entire Chrons and such a deep reverence for the author that they thus must be unconsciously incapable of seeing any flaws that might be there in TLD. Or thus must unconsciously make themselves perceive worths that might not... subliminal wish fulfilment, if you like. However, both points of view are to me a nonsense. It's about individual, personal and subjective reaction. Again, nobody's "wrong".

lurch wrote:Yet you myself, and others,,felt the probing fingers of the author on our raw nerves..

And as I've clearly stated before, I am absolutely and genuinely pleased for you and others of similar feeling. I wish I could have felt the same way, because I was certainly predisposed to so doing.

lurch wrote:Yet,,Getting It..while admitted to in the negative sense..I didn't feel that..I didn't feel this.. the author failed to make me feel..etc etc..has been made a big Drama Point by the how dare anybody say I didn't get it crowd...even after they say the author didn't get them to feel anything..So..its just a game of making it the author's fault..even when folks say,,well i certainly was moved..I certainly felt the author's massage.. The Author was successful for me..or..with me....It can be said the author failed them..but it can't be said they didn't get it...We are being played for their want to have it both ways.

Again with respect, it's a little presumptuous when you dismiss others' (well, certainly my) motivations behind their expressing completely genuine and sincerely held views on TLD as being based on "drama" or "a game", or maintain that you and other fervent admirers of TLD are simply "being played". For anyone to do such a thing would be both small-minded and trite in the extreme, so unfortunately there again is the sort of dismissive accusation that I really don't think can be thought through, supportable or particularly helpful in any event.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:03 pm

SkurjMaster wrote:Dear All,

I was having a good old time in the 'Last Dark Rewrite' thread, but it has been locked. To which I respond:

If the 'arbiters' of the Watch are going to be fair, then a more efficient way to 'arbit' would be to ban the offending parties. I was making what I thought was the intended use of the Watch to discuss the Chronicles. If you can point out anything that I did wrong in the thread that I started, then proceed. I will accept the punishment.

I would also like to point out that the situation escalated after the somewhat reactionary post by Seareach. Yes, there were some responses to that post, but it started there.

So, my question to the 'arbiters' is how is clamping down a thread that is presumably here for the free discussion of a story put together by what I presume is one of our collective (if not THE) favorite author the most just move?

If this is the way that this discussion forum is going to work, then maybe people need to start considering other outlets for SRD discussions. Of course, now that the Last Chronicles is done, maybe the Watch is a little less useful anyway.

Now that I'm done with traveling for a few weeks, I can respond.

SkurjMaster, it wasn't the topic of the thread nor any action on your part in creating the thread that resulted in locking it. There was an argument that had started within the thread that had turned personal, and that's why I stepped in. As moderator, I'm obligated to do so.

I could have simply deleted the relevant posts. Also, I could have edited each post and removed the personal comments. I'm a believer in free speech, so deleting a post entirely or editing someone's comments is a last resort for me. Also, as I said above, I was traveling and limited to my iphone/ipad, and could only do so much with them. Locking it was the easiest thing to do.

For your criticisms directed towards me, as a moderator: I've been a mod here for going on 10 years, and I cover a lot of territory around the Watch. This little spat isn't my first rodeo.
You're free to continue your original conversation in this thread.

As to Seareach - well, look at it this way: You're a personal reader for SRD and have put > 10 years of work into The Last Chronicles. Someone on this board suggests that you've done a lousy job. How would you respond? Maybe you wouldn't have your feelings on your sleeve, but I bet you would be offended, and have something to say about it.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:48 pm

My opinion on people making suggestions how a novel could have been better is the same as my opinion about people's suggestions how a movie could have been made better: if you, the critic, are so knowledgeable about movies (or novels) then instead of criticizing someone's work you should be out there making movies or writing novels yourself. Novels, like art in a museum, must be taken only at face value--yes, you may note what you like or what you do not like about a particular piece but we the viewer may not make suggestions how the piece should be or could be improved. To do so is to devalue the emotional investment the artist put into the work, the emotional investment they are attempting to share with us through the work.

I don't post much in this forum, mostly just marking all the topics read (without really reading them) before moving on, but this thread caught my attention.

Post by **starkllr** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:14 pm

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:My opinion on people making suggestions how a novel could have been better is the same as my opinion about people's suggestions how a movie could have been made better: if you, the critic, are so knowledgeable about movies (or novels) then instead of criticizing someone's work you should be out there making movies or writing novels yourself. Novels, like art in a museum, must be taken only at face value--yes, you may note what you like or what you do not like about a particular piece but we the viewer may not make suggestions how the piece should be or could be improved. To do so is to devalue the emotional investment the artist put into the work, the emotional investment they are attempting to share with us through the work.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I don't know the first thing about designing or building a house, but if someone builds a house and it collapses in the first stiff breeze, I can certainly say that it was designed or built wrong.

I think it's completely fair to look at the choices an artist makes and question them, to wonder why he write it this way and not that way, why he left this in, but took that out, why he focused his attention here, and not there.

For example: one of my problems with the LC's is the lack of time and attention paid to the relationship between TC and Roger, and the absence of any mention of what (if anything) TC did to try and find/contact his son in the ten years between TPTP and TWL, or what (if anything) LA did likewise in the time between WGW and ROTE.

The relationships between parents and children was a huge theme throughout all four books of the chronicles. I don't think it's wrong, or devaluing SRD's work to wonder why the TC-Roger relationship wasn't given more attention in the LC's, or even to say , given everything else in the books, that the lack of attention is a glaring omission.

Post by **SkurjMaster** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:41 pm

Starkllr,
I couldn't agree more. I used a couple of similar analogies in the 'Last Dark Rewrite' thread. Anyway, you are dead-on right.

As for the tension between the opposing camps, why don't we try this. For every time you post a negative about the LD or the Last Chrons, try to post something positive. Or, if you are resolutely in the 'adoration' camp, try the reverse. I was just thinking that for a good many of the elements about which I am positive, there is something negative about its choice for me as a reader.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch