SRD's first published work?
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:40 am
Hi.
I'm referring to Avengers #98, cover date April 1972. On the letters page we have this [with surnames added for clarity]:
"Dear Stan [Lee] and Roy [Thomas]:
In the past two or three years, I have been content to let Marvel struggle with the problem of rendering superheroes attractive to serious audiences in its own way. However, the steady decline of Marvel over the past two years, combined with the forthcoming demise of one of my favourite characters, Goliath, has at last convinced me that what I have to say is important enough to be worth the trouble.
So far, most of the characters and situations in your comics show an admirable understanding on your part of one of the crucial problems of superheroes: they must be both unique and common: that is, they must needs be repetitions of other superheroes, but they must have enough average humanity to be sympathetic characters, characters with whom readers can identify. Giving credit where credit is due, I should say that, in the area of uniqueness, you have not been remiss - whatever else has happened to Marvel, you have not lost your ability to come up with new ideas, imaginative characters, interesting situations. Where you break down is in what you do with those ideas, characters and situations. I feel that you are attacking the problem of making your heroes believable in a way that is different from, and inferior to, the way you have attacked the problem in the past...
My identification with Goliath has been relatively positive. I know that he is rather unintelligent, quick-tempered, crude in a way - but I liked him equally in his Hawkeye days, because he alone of all the Avengers has convinced me that he will never surrender to what he knows is evil. He's not perfect, I'm not perfect: but he has the qualities of a hero, qualities that I can wish I had, and so I identify with him.
Which brings me back to the subject of "decline". Let me try to show you what I mean. The old Goliath was a lousy character. Here's why: he had too much going for him - super-brains, huge strength, and a completely faithful woman. You must have seen how lousy he was, because you tried to spice him up by giving him a "problem" - he kept getting stuck at odd sizes. That was one of the least human problems you ever invented, and in the long run it failed (witness his steady loss of popularity). But - there was a brief while when the old Goliath was the most exciting character around. In epic struggles against Dragon-Man, Hercules (a case of mistaken loyalties), and the Super Adaptoid (AVENGERS #38, 41, 45), he fought harder, showed more determination, and paid a higher price for victory than any other Avenger. For a brief while, he excelled in grit. Now, compare your treatment with the new Goliath. In AVENGERS #41, where Hank Pym is defeated by Dragon-Man, the heroic struggle lasted for SIX pages of dramatic action. Now the new Goliath has "saved the day" twice in the last year; in #75, he was victorious against Arkon in 3 frames occupying only a third of a page; in #86, he beat Brain-Child in 6 frames occupying two-thirds of a page. In all his other action, he has been either defeated immediately, with no struggle, or made a fool of. Is it any wonder that he has become unpopular enough for you to get rid of him? You have totally failed to realise his potential. He is a true fighter; he will never give up - but you, I am sure, will get rid of him in favour of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, who are two of the dullest characters you have ever created.
Well, I suppose that I could let one character with a lot of courage and a strict sense of duty and justice leave without complaining at such length. But I see that Goliath is a typical case in Marvel today. In two years, you have presented only one sympathetic, heroic desperate battle to the world: The Fantastic Four against the Overmind (well, maybe Thor's fight against the World Beyond counts). Particularly hard hit have been your teams, especially the Avengers. When are you going to realize that the details of an awful struggle won (eventually) the hard way, are what bring readers back to the stories of superheroes? True Confessions I can get somewhere else. Give me a hero that I can sympathise with and respect.
Stephen R. Donaldson, xxx E. Erie St, Kent, Ohio 44240"
The reply is:
"We'll try Steve. Naturally, we can't be expected to agree with most of the points raised concerning a supposed "decline" in Marvel over the past couple of years, but some of your arguments are doubtless well-taken - and some of them are problems we ourselves have been wrestling with off and on. As a matter of fact, it's because we feel the same way about certain things that Hawkeye returned in the last two pages of the very issue of AVENGERS you now hold in your hands - and Roy [Thomas] and Barry [Smith] are hoping to do more with our awesome assemblers (especially Hawkeye, the Vision, and the mutant siblings Pietro and Wanda) than even you could possibly wish for. It'll all take a bit of time, though, since we've got well over half a dozen heroes to inject into each and every story - so bear with us a wee bit longer, huh? We'll be in there trying - honest!"
I'm wondering if Mr D still has his comics collection...
Tom
I'm referring to Avengers #98, cover date April 1972. On the letters page we have this [with surnames added for clarity]:
"Dear Stan [Lee] and Roy [Thomas]:
In the past two or three years, I have been content to let Marvel struggle with the problem of rendering superheroes attractive to serious audiences in its own way. However, the steady decline of Marvel over the past two years, combined with the forthcoming demise of one of my favourite characters, Goliath, has at last convinced me that what I have to say is important enough to be worth the trouble.
So far, most of the characters and situations in your comics show an admirable understanding on your part of one of the crucial problems of superheroes: they must be both unique and common: that is, they must needs be repetitions of other superheroes, but they must have enough average humanity to be sympathetic characters, characters with whom readers can identify. Giving credit where credit is due, I should say that, in the area of uniqueness, you have not been remiss - whatever else has happened to Marvel, you have not lost your ability to come up with new ideas, imaginative characters, interesting situations. Where you break down is in what you do with those ideas, characters and situations. I feel that you are attacking the problem of making your heroes believable in a way that is different from, and inferior to, the way you have attacked the problem in the past...
My identification with Goliath has been relatively positive. I know that he is rather unintelligent, quick-tempered, crude in a way - but I liked him equally in his Hawkeye days, because he alone of all the Avengers has convinced me that he will never surrender to what he knows is evil. He's not perfect, I'm not perfect: but he has the qualities of a hero, qualities that I can wish I had, and so I identify with him.
Which brings me back to the subject of "decline". Let me try to show you what I mean. The old Goliath was a lousy character. Here's why: he had too much going for him - super-brains, huge strength, and a completely faithful woman. You must have seen how lousy he was, because you tried to spice him up by giving him a "problem" - he kept getting stuck at odd sizes. That was one of the least human problems you ever invented, and in the long run it failed (witness his steady loss of popularity). But - there was a brief while when the old Goliath was the most exciting character around. In epic struggles against Dragon-Man, Hercules (a case of mistaken loyalties), and the Super Adaptoid (AVENGERS #38, 41, 45), he fought harder, showed more determination, and paid a higher price for victory than any other Avenger. For a brief while, he excelled in grit. Now, compare your treatment with the new Goliath. In AVENGERS #41, where Hank Pym is defeated by Dragon-Man, the heroic struggle lasted for SIX pages of dramatic action. Now the new Goliath has "saved the day" twice in the last year; in #75, he was victorious against Arkon in 3 frames occupying only a third of a page; in #86, he beat Brain-Child in 6 frames occupying two-thirds of a page. In all his other action, he has been either defeated immediately, with no struggle, or made a fool of. Is it any wonder that he has become unpopular enough for you to get rid of him? You have totally failed to realise his potential. He is a true fighter; he will never give up - but you, I am sure, will get rid of him in favour of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, who are two of the dullest characters you have ever created.
Well, I suppose that I could let one character with a lot of courage and a strict sense of duty and justice leave without complaining at such length. But I see that Goliath is a typical case in Marvel today. In two years, you have presented only one sympathetic, heroic desperate battle to the world: The Fantastic Four against the Overmind (well, maybe Thor's fight against the World Beyond counts). Particularly hard hit have been your teams, especially the Avengers. When are you going to realize that the details of an awful struggle won (eventually) the hard way, are what bring readers back to the stories of superheroes? True Confessions I can get somewhere else. Give me a hero that I can sympathise with and respect.
Stephen R. Donaldson, xxx E. Erie St, Kent, Ohio 44240"
The reply is:
"We'll try Steve. Naturally, we can't be expected to agree with most of the points raised concerning a supposed "decline" in Marvel over the past couple of years, but some of your arguments are doubtless well-taken - and some of them are problems we ourselves have been wrestling with off and on. As a matter of fact, it's because we feel the same way about certain things that Hawkeye returned in the last two pages of the very issue of AVENGERS you now hold in your hands - and Roy [Thomas] and Barry [Smith] are hoping to do more with our awesome assemblers (especially Hawkeye, the Vision, and the mutant siblings Pietro and Wanda) than even you could possibly wish for. It'll all take a bit of time, though, since we've got well over half a dozen heroes to inject into each and every story - so bear with us a wee bit longer, huh? We'll be in there trying - honest!"
I'm wondering if Mr D still has his comics collection...
Tom
