What is it you believe?

Post by **Avatar** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:21 am

Not petty? I'll suggest just one example to you that has always confused me. 2Kings Ch2 v23-24, in which the prophet Elisha curses some children for making fun of his baldness, and god sends bears to tear 42 children to pieces.

If we are "made" then we must be made in a certain way. And yes, it would be silly.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:42 am

No matter how many times I curse children, bears never show up. Clearly my prophet margins are too small.

Post by **Avatar** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:52 am

Should try my religion, it's an Irreligious,
Non-Prophet Disorganisation.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:06 am

Post by **Revan** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:13 am

Avatar wrote:
Should try my religion, it's an Irreligious,
Non-Prophet Disorganisation.

Maybe I will

heh, religion... I find Religions figureheads to be asburd at times... that's another reason why religion annoys me.

Post by **ZefaLefeLaH** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:53 am

Ur-Vile wrote:And chained and limited.

You sound jaded, like someone broke your heart, or your parents broke up & that broke your heart.

In the Bible, somewhere, it says that God loved us before we loved Him, or something like that. I didn't know what to think of that. I didn't know whether to buy that one. It seemed far-fetched to me. The reason it seemed to be such a stretch was because I was used used to the idea that a person has to know you before they could love you.

Well, my fiance' loved me before she knew me. As complex as we are as individuals, it takes years to really get to know someone. As I grew and changed, she followed along, even while she was learning about me. She learned of my extreme distaste for certain races, classifications of people, my interest in PR0n, my desire to watch evil and depressing things at the theatre, my compassion and patience, my good judgment when dealing with the people in our lives, my poor judgment when dealing with management at work, my kindness, my desire to remain original and not follow people simply to be popular but to rather think through the issues myself, my lack of interest in sex followed by my obsessive interest in sex, my drunken stupors, and everything else that is me.

When I look at her, I see a woman that has loved me before she knew me. She loved me when she learned who I was. And she'll love me if I change. She'll always love me. She'll continue to love me if I leave her, if I died, or if I lost my legs in an accident or had AIDS or if I got old and she had to wipe my butt every day. She will never leave me. She loved me before she knew me & she'll continue to love me as she has always loved me.

BTW: I scored a mainstream Protestant viewpoint.

Post by **Avatar** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:19 am

ZefaLefeLaH wrote:...She learned of my extreme distaste for certain races, classifications of people...

Man, I'm not sure I want to get into this, particularly in this thread, or whether you're just trying to generate some controversy. I will say however, that while I have no problem with the thought of disliking individuals of any sort for any of what may be valid reasons, (hell, there's plenty of people I dislike), I really think it's a mistake to dislike a group of people based on generalised assumptions that cannot apply to individuals. To dislike people automatically, for whatever reason, means that you end up never knowing that you might have been surprised.

ZefaLefeLaH wrote:BTW: I scored a mainstream Protestant viewpoint.

By this do you mean that you have no choice in the way you feel?

--Avatar

Post by **CovenantJr** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:10 am

Avatar wrote:Man, I'm not sure I want to get into this, particularly in this thread, or whether you're just trying to generate some controversy.

In my experience, there are only two reasons Zef posts anything: humour and controversy. If it's not funny, he's trying to provoke a reaction.

Post by **Avatar** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:09 pm

Thanks Cj.

Still, I'm perfectly willing to debate it, just in a more appropriate place.

--Avatar

Post by **Kymbierlee** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:50 am

I just went to the Belief-O-Matic link Caer Sylvanus posted back in August. It showed I am a Neo-Pagan and a Unitarian Universalist. The funny thing is, I am a Pagan, and belong to a Unitarian Universalist Church! Glad to see I am currently practicing the correct faiths as determined by something called a Belief-O-Matic. LOL! Actually, it was pretty much dead on. Anyone who has seen any of my postings over at Hile Troy's think tank by now knows I am very liberal, and these beliefs suit my way of thinking about the world like a glove. I am very comfortable with Paganism and with the UU's.

Post by **UrLord** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:58 am

Yeah, the belief-o-matic is truly a thing of wonder. I took Ye Olde Teste, and it gave me Mainline to Liberal Protestant which is pretty damn accurate. Well, after taking this I finally know what to call myself, at least.

Yay for lumping people into easily identifiable categories!

Post by **dennisrwood** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:29 am

Eastern Orthodox 100%
Roman Catholic 100%
Conservative Protestant 100%

and i am Catholic. most surprising was that at 4th place was Mormon with 88%. Quaker was 5th at 84% i could see be Quaker, but disagree with the Mormonism.

Post by **Kymbierlee** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:28 am

Ur-Lord-

I used to be a mainline to liberal protestant, so good for you! We just SOOO have to love categorization..................

Post by **hamako** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:17 am

Unitarian Universalism - which from what I read is a cop out for whatever you want - not quite me, but then I don't give a monkeys what anyone believes if it doesn't marginalise anyone.

Problem with Belief O Matic to me is that it presupposes too much that you have some belief, I have none in anything so I put "none" to most.

Post by **ur-James** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:02 am

Ahhhh, religion. Something I avoided for many, many years before finding my own. Let me explain (because I work overnights and I'm bored).

I was raised Methodist. By this I mean that I lived with my mother's sister and she made me go to church every Sunday, and that church was a Methodist church. I still to this day don't understand how there can be so many different "factions" of a religion that all believe in basically the same thing. Anyway, church never really clicked with me. As a kid (about 10-12 years old), it was boring, I never really wanted to go because I found it pointless. I didn't feel any kind of connection to the teachings. I even went to Sunday School and got nothing out of it.

Well, when I was 15, I left living with my mother's sister and moved in with my sister. And for some reason that I still don't understand, I somehow developed this immense hatred for the Catholic/Christian (i.e. Jesus-based) religion. It's very existence highly offended me and would, when prompted, go on HUGE diatribes about how religion was the worst thing in the world. Again, looking back on this, I don't know why I felt this way or where this anger came from.

Then one night while on tour with my band in Virginia somewhere (can't remember the name of the city), we stopped at this coffee shop because we saw a bunch of music equipment being loaded in, so we thought we'd stop in and see who was playing. Turned out it was a CD release party for this really great acoustic act. It also turned out this acoustic act was a religious act. I don't want to say Christian because I'm not sure if they were a "Christian" band, but their lyrics were very "preachy" and religious. And I was trapped, I couldn't get out.

I had an epiphany that night. I came to the realization that people believed in what made them happy and clicked with them. The "Christian" religion never clicked with me, but it obviously did for a lot of people and who was I to say they were wrong in their belief? I guess I just realized that night that there was nothing wrong with religion, it just wasn't for me.

Many years passed when one day my wife came home with one of those really small pocket books on Buddhism. I read it and was slightly intrigued, so I went and bought more, bigger books and became enthralled with Buddha's life and how he went from a prince of a great warrior family to a highly respected spiritual leader. And every single part of the "belief structure" kind of fell in line with what I already believed, what I'd come to on my own was in Buddhism.

So what do I believe? If you're still with me, I suppose I should say exactly what I believe in.

I believe in myself. I believe in meditation. I believe in the power of the mind. One of the facets of the Buddhist religion is not to believe what someone tells you; you must experience it and know it for yourself. I believe that when you die, your spirit is reincarnated, and your actions in your previous life determine the type of life you have the next time. I believe in myself and the things I can do to make this world a better place.

Thanks for listening.

James

Post by **Avatar** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:39 am

Welcome to The Close, James. Always a pleasure to get some more thoughts on these eternal questions.

I've always had a fondness for Buddhism, but in the end, I can't follow any organised religion honestly, because firstly, they tend to be strict, and secondly, as you've said, I just don't feel that connection. That faith that, in the face of all reality, still convinces someone that they are right, regardless of any consideration.

I likewise love the thought of reincarnation, but the part of your post that I think is the most important is that last line. Believing in yourself and in what you can do to improve the world around you.

What more could any deity ask for?

We're always willing to listen here, and I hope that you take the time to talk here more often.

--Avatar

Post by **ur-James** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:02 am

Yeah, I'm slowly becoming addicted to this place, I think. It's the one place I can discuss good books, good music, and have an intellectual discussion, all while I'm at work!

Anyway, if you'd like to talk more about Buddhism, feel free to contact me off the board. There are a couple things you said about Buddhism that aren't completely true. There is no "deity", there are no real "rules" per se. I guess you could go so far and say that Buddhism isn't really a reigion in the context that we're all familiar with, it's more of a philosphy than anything.

And I'm still checking out all the little corners of this place. I didn't realize how big this forum was! All kinds of different places to discuss different things. You will probably be seeing quite a bit more from me.

James

Post by **Avatar** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:10 am

AcousticJames wrote:I didn't realize how big this forum was! All kinds of different places to discuss different things. You will probably be seeing quite a bit more from me.

Glad to hear it. Don't neglect the Think-Tank either. Some excellent debates going on there too.

Oh, BTW, when I said "what more can a deity expect", I was referring to deities in general, i.e. any deity that anyone believes in. Wasn't implying a specific Buddhist deity.

Take it Easy
--Avatar

Post by **Cybrweez** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:12 pm

I consider myself a Bible believing Christian. No denomination. I'm b/w liberal and conservative, I don't like extreme, the answer is rarely at either end, but in the middle.

Post by **Iryssa** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:49 am

I am also a Christian...and I believe it's okay to say "Merry Christmas" (freedom of speech and of religious expression, anyone? next time I get in trouble for saying that at work I'm pulling out the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms on 'em *disgruntled expression*)

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Kevin's Watch

What is it you believe?