Hero

[Fist and Faith]

A muchly good flick. I'm not a big fan of Jet Li's movies, because the wire stuff, which I don't think is usually done as well as it could be, is unjustified. Unfortunately, that's the case again here. But still, when wires aren't being used, it's great stuff! And the story is really good. Twists upon twists upon twists. What's really going on with these characters? Heh. Go watch it and find out for yourself!

[Revan]

Is that all it's called. I've never heard of it...

[Fist and Faith]

Yep, that's the whole title.

[danlo]

I hope you have more supporting arguements for this film than just that. I'm very discriminating when it come to martial arts films and especially 'suspension of belief' films with martial arts in them. For some reason I could go with The Matrix but Reloaded was a bit over the top... Aside from that I either haven't bothered to see or have purposely avoided those kinds of films since Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon and Brotherhood of the Wolf--I guess they spoiled me

[FizbansTalking_Hat]

This movie is amazing, and whats this about wires and etc. If we were to label and judge films based on their methods of work and the techniques they used then a lot of films would be criticized. I mean, 3/4 of the new Star War films are done on a fake set, does that take away from the magic of the movie or the way its done. LOTR was shot with a lot of blue screen and digital photography, does that take away from how nice Gollum looked.

Yes, they did use a lot of wires, but I think its unjust to label the film as not so good just b/c they use this technique to portray their story.

That being said, I loved thsi film, the story is what its really all about, the story starts out with a warrior/assasin sitting before his emporer explaing how he came to be sitting there having to fight off other assassins in order to be seated there.

The film is very much like Rashamon, many versions of one story and different viewpoints from different perspectives. You don't really know how its going to end until it happens, very mysterious and surprising. The imagry and sound and score are all very beautiful, this movie could be watched without subtitles and in a way you'd sitll comprehend what all is going on, it is worth seeing and one of the best movies I've seen this year, cheers.

[Fist and Faith]

My problem with the wire-martial arts in this film (and most of Li's) is twofold:
1) It just isn't done as well as it is in many other movies. Crouching Tiger and The Matrix are good examples. Li's stuff usually looks less smooth. There might be an occasional awkward moment in CTHD and Matrix (although I can't think of any off hand), but I think there are many in Hero. But hey, that's just my feeling of it. You may find Li's work more visually pleasing.

2) And this is much more important. In The Matrix, they could do the things they did because they're not doing them in a physical reality. As Morpheus explains in the first movie, some of the rules of the programmed reality of the matrix can be bent, and some can be broken. In CTHD, they are able to do what they do becase of the teachings of Wudan. They don't explain those teachings, we don't get to try them ourselves, but we accept that they have learned ways to focus their chi to a hugely greater degree than you and I can. Jedi know how to use the Force to strengthen/enhance their bodies to amazing levels.

But why can they do the super-human things they do in Hero? There's no explanation at all. It would seem that, if you practice enough (perhaps doing lots of squats and jumps?) you'll be able to fly.

Anyway, as the days have gone by, I've come to like the movie more and more. It's really great!! I love the way the story unfolds!

[FizbansTalking_Hat]

The super human flying, well its a movie, I mean come on, no explanation really needed, besides this movie unfolds like a dream, a myth is what it is, a legend that has been passed on through time, in that way supernatural elements are added, its just a fun story. I findi that the more someone over analyzes a film, and worry about hte technicalities, they less they enjoy it. I mean its just a movie that lets you enjoy somethign different and fantastical, ah well, to each their own. Cheers.

[Korik Bloodguard]

I myself enjoyed Hero, but I must agree with Fist that the wire work wasn't as good as Crouching Tiger's (or the Matrix, for that matter). I don't think that lessened my enjoyment of the movie, though--it was just something I couldn't help but notice. A great movie, though!

[Fist and Faith]

Maybe you're right, Fiz. Maybe in Apollo 13 Tom Hanks should have just gotten out and flown it down to earth safely on his back. As you say, to each his own. Yes, such things are pretty much a part of the martial arts movie genre. But it's an aspect I've never liked. I can still like the movies immensely, as I do Hero, but I'd rather have well-choreographed, merely-human fighting; or an explanation for super powers.

[matrixman]

I won't comment on Hero as I haven't seen it. Not sure if I will. It doesn't help that I was never a Jet Li fan.

But regarding the fancy martial arts wire work in movies: like Fist, I can accept the gravity-defying stuff in The Matrix because there is an explanation for such a violation of physics: it's not real but rather the result of "bending" the rules in a computer simulation. To detractors and serious science geeks, that explanation may seem a load of bunk, but from a movie logic standpoint, it works just fine.

This is also precisely why Crouching Tiger did not work for me, because it presents the high-flying stuff as though it somehow fits within the physical parameters of the real world. No, it doesn't. I might have accepted it as all out fantasy, but the film is trying for a serious realism in all other aspects, which makes the physics-defying acrobatics all the more jarring and out of place in my eyes. Sorry, Fist, but I just don't buy into the theory that the teachings of Wudan or whatever can make a man fly.

Speaking of which, sure, Superman's story takes place in the "real" world. But he has powers because he's an alien. Now that's an explanation I can handle.

Fizban mentioned LOTR. Well, the physical logic of the world of LOTR made more sense to me than the half-baked physics of something like Crouching Tiger. And, not to sound like a grinch, but I think the issue is being confused: you're talking about the actual, behind-the-scenes making of a movie, we're talking about the end product as it appears on the screen.

As for the idea that, hey, it's just a movie, no explanation required for stuff that goes on...well, as an intelligent (and maybe jaded) moviegoer, I expect more than that.

[Fist and Faith]

This is also precisely why Crouching Tiger did not work for me, because it presents the high-flying stuff as though it somehow fits within the physical parameters of the real world. No, it doesn't. I might have accepted it as all out fantasy, but the film is trying for a serious realism in all other aspects, which makes the physics-defying acrobatics all the more jarring and out of place in my eyes. Sorry, Fist, but I just don't buy into the theory that the teachings of Wudan or whatever can make a man fly.

Yeah, I understand your point. I guess I just allow a bit more than you, though not nearly what Fiz does. (Maybe we could be called the MM/FF/Fiz Scale from now on? ) I can view CTHD in a Star Wars sort of way. Wudan teaches you how to use chi the way a Jedi uses the Force. Wudan doesn't seem to read the future, or use telekinesis, but they enhance the body the way Jedi do.

Actually, the comic book of CTHD is much more powered than the movie, more like Jedi. Li Mu Bai, and others, manipulated their surroundings to a much greater degree than in the movie. And the first time we ever see the Green Destiny drawn, it says:

Upon the appearance of the Green Destiny sword, the spectators were mesmerized by its grand power.

It wasn't just beautiful, it radiated power.

BTW, the art is superb, done largely in glorious watercolors. And the detail of things like hair, faces, shattering wood, etc etc, is awesome. I can't recommend this comic enough... For those who liked the movie, that is. heh And it's not just a movie adaptation, it's an adaptation of the original books, by Wang Du Lu, which I believe are still only in Chinese. Or at least they're not in English. (And I can't believe I never made a CTHD thread!!! I'll have to do that, and copy all of this there. )

[Metal-Demon]

I just bought Hero on DVD yesterday ... I watched it last night, and thought it was a pretty damn good movie.

Granted, there were a few moments when the wire-supported movements were a bit rough and awkward looking, but that scene in the chess-yard (?) with Jet Li and Donnie Yen was pretty cool.

I just loved the role colour played in the film ... and the scene in the forest when Moon and Flying Snow fight thru the leaves ... man, that was stunning.

[[Syl]]

I rented this the other night. Like Fist and others, I'm not a big fan of Li and wire-work, so I was fairly let down by the movie.

For one thing, I didn't like the twists. I saw most of what was going on when they kept advancing dude forward. The little changes and repetitions were mostly tedious.

The only fight scene that was of any interest to me was the one between Nameless and Sky. In that one, the wire work (which was minimal) was explainable by the fact that most of the battle occurred in the mind's eye of the opponents. And the bit with the arrows! You think they woulda started deflecting them before...

I did like some things about the movie, though. The cinematography was excellent. They deserve a lot of credit for their use of colors, and the scenery was as beautiful as CTHD. Some of the settings seemed a little contrived, but I thought it added to the element of a story being told.

Good soundtrack. I really wish I had a home theatre set-up for movies like this.

The one fantastic element I did enjoy was the use of wind and such, like they trained to such a fine degree that they had mastered chaos theory and could control wind vectors and all that.

[duchess of malfi]

I got around to watching this last night.

I have rarely seen such a lovely use of colors in a film, as when Moon and Snow were fighting in the autumn leaves.

Whole film had a lovely, mythic feel to it (I was able to suspend my disbelief in the super-hero fighting moves, as I felt I was watching a myth).

I enjoyed the various analogies between the martial arts and the fine arts, such as music and calligraphy.

[Fist and Faith]

Cool, duchess. Yeah, the autumn leaves fight was something else!

I liked it before, but I think even more highly of Hero now that I've seen House of Flying Daggers.

[dlbpharmd]

I saw this last night - I agree with Fist and MM, I'm really getting tired of all the flying around. Like they said, it worked in Matrix, and I can accept it once in CTHD - but enough's enough. Overall, though, a pretty good story.