Kevin's Watch

Could Vain have been taken over by a Raver??

Why/Why not

*shrugs*

I think not, if there was such a possibility the Ravers would likely have taken advantage of it.

Did they know about Vain?

Ravers occupy living creatures, but Vain wasn't alive.

wasn't alive?

When Linden looked at him in tWL, she said he wasn't alive - he looked like an inanimate object to her health-sense.

yeah, he was created by the...whichever of them little things made him...to fulfull a certain purpose, so....no life for him

I think that a Raver could have possessed Vain as much as
the Elohim can capture and contain him.

The Haruchai could not be possesed, neither could the giants (without the help of the Illearth stone), Near the end of WGW Linden fought it off, and the way I read it Mhoram fought it off on his trip to Fouls Creche. This show us that the Ravers are not all powerfull, and they need someone/something who has a weaker will..like most humans, and animals.
Although (according to legand) the Demondim were possesed, the Whynim nor the ur-viles were ever possessed, it might be in the in-bred lore. Therefore I beleive it would be impossible for it to happen.

the Whynim nor the ur-viles were ever possessed

In the example you gave of Mhoram's trip to Foul's Creche, it was a Raver that was controlling the ur-vile that touched Mhoram.

Vain wasn't alive per se as a person is alive. He was a tool created by the Urviles to become part of the Staff of Law.

dlbpharmd wrote:

the Whynim nor the ur-viles were ever possessed

In the example you gave of Mhoram's trip to Foul's Creche, it was a Raver that was controlling the ur-vile that touched Mhoram.

I stand corrected.

Raver can control an Ur-vile, Ur-Vile created Vain, therefore, Vain should be able to be controlled by a Raver.

Arguements?

Raver can control an Ur-vile, Ur-Vile created Vain, therefore, Vain should be able to be controlled by a Raver.

Um... wrong. The fact that Ur-viles could be posessed makes no difference, the key point is that Vain was not alive.

Ur-viles are alive, even though they were made and not born. I believe Hamako talks about this when he's explaining the Weird to TC in TWL.

Vain is not alive. I don't think the Ravers could take him.

Vain is immune to everything else, so why not ravers? I took it as a given that they could not touch him. You would sure hope they wouldn't be able to possess one half of the future staff of law

Lord Doom wrote:Raver can control an Ur-vile, Ur-Vile created Vain, therefore, Vain should be able to be controlled by a Raver.

Arguements?

Giants created Revelstone, Raver can control a Giant (with the aid of the Stone), therefore Revelstone can be controlled by a Raver.

Vain, like Revelstone, is effectively an inanimate object. He acts, not from conscious will, but from mechanical purpose.

dlbpharmd wrote:

the Whynim nor the ur-viles were ever possessed

In the example you gave of Mhoram's trip to Foul's Creche, it was a Raver that was controlling the ur-vile that touched Mhoram.

True, but that Raver may have taken over the ur-vile loremaster with assistance from the Illearth Stone.

Hey, thanks for the back-up MR K


I imagine that if Vain could have been Ravered, then he would have been possesed. There was a few opportunaties, like when the eels attacked at sea, or the two times he was at Revelstone.

MrKABC wrote:

dlbpharmd wrote:

the Whynim nor the ur-viles were ever possessed

In the example you gave of Mhoram's trip to Foul's Creche, it was a Raver that was controlling the ur-vile that touched Mhoram.

True, but that Raver may have taken over the ur-vile loremaster with assistance from the Illearth Stone.

There is no evidence of the Illearth Stone's involvement in this scene.