TPTP

[amanibhavam]

To me, the most unnerving and peculiar of all the six volumes.

- Covenant always seems to be either inane, drugged, half-concious or simply drowsy to understand what's happening around him
- Bannor's ageing and decision to turn his back to everything
- Covenant's meeting with me, I mean, the amanibhavam, his resulting madness, and the strange interlude with the Unfettered Healer and the presence of the Forestal who is willing to kill the Healer to save TC
- the peculiar téte-á-téte with Triock at Roamsedge Ford, where Covenant is strangely unable to discern that there is something seriously wrong with the Cattleherd
- the even more peculiar scene at the Colossus, where TC first doesn't appear to notice the Ramen-Ravers then Elena, although all of them stand a few steps away from him

Anyway, it just occurred to me: where in a Balrog did Foul get all those creatures for his armies? Cavewights, ur-viles, they are okay, but where did he get so many men? The Land seems to be too scarcely populated for such a might, surely there were no significantly more people living in the South? Or maybe he learned some force-growing techniques from the Amnion...

[Zahir]

Methinks Covenant's physical and emotional state explains a lot of what he "misses" around him.

As for Foul's creatures, my own impression is that he warped *everything* he got his hands on. Men, Ranyhyn, Waynhim, Urviles, Cavewights, deer, wolves, regular horses, lions, etc. Nor would I be surprised if he force-bred them, maybe splitting living things into more than one, making them grow into something monstrous.

Keep in mind he had over forty years to breed and create his armies. With the Illearth Stone, I'd bet he could force creatures to breed very fast--maturing in only a few years and spawning large numbers of offspring.

Feels icky just thinking about it, actually.

[Ryzel]

But where did he get stuff to feed them all. Maggot pits?

[Forestal]

- Covenant's meeting with me, I mean, the amanibhavam, his resulting madness, and the strange interlude with the Unfettered Healer and the presence of the Forestal who is willing to kill the Healer to save TC

when did that happen? can some1 get me a quote or page reference? coz i dont remember nething about a forestal... and i dont usualy 4get nething about forestals...

[amanibhavam]

I don't have the book with me, but when the Healer tries to cure Covenants madness, and she takes all that upon her, she is so horrified by it, that she takes a stone and tries to smash TC's head, but then the music of a forestal descends upon her and contains her until she snaps and dies...

[danlo]

They probably ate themselves, or Foul's mistakes & weaklings--they could always go 4 a pizza run through the Sarangrave and get some yummy swamp scum! Which was fertilized by their own sewage pouring out of Defile's Course...(gag!) Yes he was force breeding them like crazy--but u do bring up a great question...how xactly did he steal men and women? Perhaps his armies sent many prisoners back 2 Mt. Thunder during TIW, he breed them like crazy and used the stone 2 clone them in some way?

[Forestal]

I don't have the book with me, but when the Healer tries to cure Covenants madness, and she takes all that upon her, she is so horrified by it, that she takes a stone and tries to smash TC's head, but then the music of a forestal descends upon her and contains her until she snaps and dies...

wait.... that was morinmoss... so was that Caer-Caveral? i didn't think he was in morinmoss at that point? am i wrong? or was there another forestal that i was unaware of?

[Skyweir]

no .. you are right it wasnt Caer-Caveral .. it was the old woman .. 'The Healer' she called herself ..

she was a dusky, loamy woman. with hair like tangled brown grass, and an old face uneven and crude in outline, as if it had been inexpertly moulded in clay. The hood of a tattered fallow-green cloak covered the crown of her head.

this is after TC had consumed the amanibhavam ..

you have come a long way into Morinmoss Forest. I am - a Healer, an Unfettered. One who turned to the work of healing.

she explains that as an Unfettered One .. she came to TC's aid because the forest summoned her to TC.

and as amy explains .. she could not bear TC's madness and pain.

His madness pounded through her as she sank into it, trying not to see what lay at its root. And when at last it made her see, forced her to behold itself, the leering disease of its source, she knew she was ruined. She wreched her seared hands from his head and went hunting, scrabbling frantically among her possessions.

Still shrieking, she pounced upons a long stone cooking knife, snatched it up, aimed it at his vulnerable heart.

He lay under the knife like a sacrifice defiled with leprosy. But before she could stab out his life, consummate his unclean pain in death, ahost of glaucous, alien gleams leaped like music into the air around her. They fell on her like dew, clung to her like moist melody, stayed her hand; they confined her power and her anguish, held all things within her until her taut, soundless cry imploded. They contained her till she broke under the strain of things that could not be contained. Then they let her fall.

[Forestal]

no .. you are right it wasnt Caer-Caveral .. it was the old woman .. 'The Healer' she called herself ..

she was a dusky, loamy woman. with hair like tangled brown grass, and an old face uneven and crude in outline, as if it had been inexpertly moulded in clay. The hood of a tattered fallow-green cloak covered the crown of her head.

His madness pounded through her as she sank into it, trying not to see what lay at its root. And when at last it made her see, forced her to behold itself, the leering disease of its source, she knew she was ruined. She wreched her seared hands from his head and went hunting, scrabbling frantically among her possessions.

Still shrieking, she pounced upons a long stone cooking knife, snatched it up, aimed it at his vulnerable heart.

He lay under the knife like a sacrifice defiled with leprosy. But before she could stab out his life, consummate his unclean pain in death, ahost of glaucous, alien gleams leaped like music into the air around her. They fell on her like dew, clung to her like moist melody, stayed her hand; they confined her power and her anguish, held all things within her until her taut, soundless cry imploded. They contained her till she broke under the strain of things that could not be contained. Then they let her fall.

so it wasn't a forestal at all, it was just her... the "music" was just a similie...

[[Syl]]

it isn't state directly what intervened, but the modus operandi appears very similar to that of a Forestal. Such as in The Illearth War.

As his singing faded into the distance, he heard the reply. Its music far surpassed his own. It seemed to fall from the branches like leaves bedewed with rare melody-to fall and flutter around him, so that he stared as if he were dazzled. The voice had a light, high, clear sound, like a splashing brook, but the power it implied filled him with awe.

But ax and fire leave me dead.
I know the hate of hands grown bold. Depart to save your heart-sap's red:
My hate knows neither rest nor weal.

A shimmer of music rippled his sight. When it cleared, he saw Caerroil Wildwood walking toward him across the greensward.
The Forestal was a tall man with a long white beard and flowing white hair. He wore a robe of purest samite, and carried a gnarled wooden rod like a scepter in the crook of one arm. A garland of purple and white orchids about his neck only heightened his austere dignity. He appeared out of the gloaming of the Deep as if he had stepped from behind a veil, and he moved like a monarch between the trees. They nodded to him as he passed. With every step, he scattered droplets of melody about him as if his whole person were drenched in song. His sparkling voice softened the severity of his mien. But his eyes were not soft. From under his thick white brows, a silver light shone from orbs without pupil or iris, and his glances had the force of physical impact.

[Skyweir]

From the Donaldson Dictionary/Glossary ..

Forestal ~ a protector of the forests of the Land

Unfettered ~ the lore students freed from conventional responsibilities ..

She may have been both .. but it is unlikely .. she was probably as she says just an Unfettered .. a soul devoted to the art of Healing .. remembering each Unfettered chooses their own focus.

[Fist and Faith]

This conversation has gotten very confusing. Let's see:

In <I>Only Those Who Hate</I>, Triock/<I>turiya</I> says:

"It is the voice of a Forestal. Garroting Deep has sent Caer-Caveral to Morinmoss."

This was in response to Covenant's questions concerning:

In the air before Covenant danced faint glaucous gleams, fragments of inaudible song. They were shrill with insistence: flee! flee!

Compare this to what Forestal quoted above:

But before she could stab out his life, consummate his unclean pain in death, a host of glaucous, alien gleams leaped like music into the air around her. They fell on her like dew, clung to her like moist melody...

And Morinmoss was more aware than the Healer was used to:

"I will help you - because you are in need, and because the white gold reveals that great matters are afoot in the Land - and because the Forest found its voice to summon me for you, though that also I do not comprehend."

Also... When the Colossus blasted the Ravers for Covenant, it could, I suppose, have been Wildwood. But in TWL, when Covenant meets Caer-Caveral in Andelain, he says:

"You saved my life at the Colossus of the Fall - after I came out of Morinmoss. I think you must have saved me in Morinmoss, too."

[[Syl]]

about Unfettered and Forestals, in LFB Atiaran says:

I have even heard it whispered that some Unfettered follow the legend of Caerroil Wildwood of Garroting Deep, and become Forestals. But that is a perilous thought, even when whispered.

When Vain gets the option to buy a new name for your rank up, I was going to go with Unfettered Forestal. or maybe see about a nick change to Caer Sylvanus. can't objectively determine if that sounds dumb or cool, tho.

[Fist and Faith]

I like it!! I reminds me of the names of some of the dragons in <I>Earthsea</I>. Orm was hugely powerful. Later, there was Orm Embar and Orm Irian. Caer Sylvanus pays homage in the same way. (I don't think there's any way to take "Caer Fist and Faith" seriously though. )

[Forestal]

I have even heard it whispered that some Unfettered follow the legend of Caerroil Wildwood of Garroting Deep, and become Forestals. But that is a perilous thought, even when whispered.

theres nothing i'd rather do than b a forestal... nothing... lucky unfettered...

just a thought she says some unfettered become forestals... didn't the unfettered say that she had given up healing? perhaps she became a forestal but was recalled to healing by the forest?

interesting idea...

[fightingmyinstincts]

I think it specifically says that Caer-Caveral was reaching out from GD to help keep Morinmoss alive, and those were his glisters of music or whatever....I just read this recently, I could look it up if I had time.....

[danlo]

(I don't think there's any way to take "Caer Fist and Faith" seriously)

Well Collusus was refered to, @ times, as "the Fist" (I feel GRR Martin pays homage 2 that title in A Clash of Kings...):protector of the One Forest, so I could take that title seriously, but u...

But before she could stab out his life, consummate his unclean pain in death, a host of glaucous, alien gleams leaped like music into the air around her. They fell on her like dew, clung to her like moist melody...

Yes FMI indeed u r correct!

[Fist and Faith]

I think it specifically says that Caer-Caveral was reaching out from GD to help keep Morinmoss alive, and those were his glisters of music or whatever....I just read this recently, I could look it up if I had time.....

I'd appreciate it if you could find that. Now that you mention it, I seem to have a vague memory of it too. I'd like to know exactly what it says.

Well Collusus was refered to, @ times, as "the Fist" (I feel GRR Martin pays homage 2 that title in A Clash of Kings...):protector of the One Forest, so I could take that title seriously, but u...

Well, when you put it that way...

[Damelon]

I think it specifically says that Caer-Caveral was reaching out from GD to help keep Morinmoss alive, and those were his glisters of music or whatever....I just read this recently, I could look it up if I had time.....

I'd appreciate it if you could find that. Now that you mention it, I seem to have a vague memory of it too. I'd like to know exactly what it says.

I thought that Caer Caveral was in Morinmoss during TPTP. Didn't TC ask C-C when he was with the dead in Andelain if it was him who helped TC in Morinmoss?

[Fist and Faith]

I thought that Caer Caveral was in Morinmoss during TPTP. Didn't TC ask C-C when he was with the dead in Andelain if it was him who helped TC in Morinmoss?

That's what I thought too, which is pretty much what I posted on Page 1 of this thread. But I seem to be remembering something about a power reaching our from Garroting Deep. Maybe it was something about Caerroil Wildwood doing that at some time or other?