hile troy's and caer-caveral death

[Revan]

i read loads of peoples opinions about hile troys death, and what the connection is between our world and the land.
I've just read the WGW and during the scene in which Sunder murders Caer-Caveral aka Hile Troy; and i clicked. Allow me to explain.....
When Sunder stabs Troy with the knife, his death is described in detail, and there is a massive fire about him (FIRE......REMEMBER THAT).

From the blow burst a deflagration of pearl flame which rent away immobility, sent Linden and the Gaints sprawling, hurled Covenant to the grass. At once, all the music became fire and raced toward the Forestal, sweeping around him - and Sunder and Hollian with him - so that they were effaced from the sight, comsumed in an incandescent whirlwind that spouted into the heavens, reached like the ruin of every song toward the bereft stars. A cacophony of fear clashed and wept around the flame; But the flame did not hear it. in a rush of ascenion, the blaze burned its hot, mute agony against the night as if it fed on the pure heart of Andelain, bore that spirit writhing and appalled through the high dark.
And as it rose, Linden seemed to hear the fundamental fabric of the world tearing.
Then, before the sight became unendurable, the fire began to subside. By slow stages, the conflagration changed to an ordinary fire, yellow with heat and eaten wood, and she saw it burning from the black and blasted stump of a tree trunk which had not been there when Caer-Caveral was stuck.

read the part about the spirit going through the high dark. when Sunder killed Troy, Troy's spirit left his FORESTAL BODY, and his spirit suffered the end that came to him in our world. therefore all this crap about him being in coma is wrong. he died in our world the day he was in that fire. he didn't fall or survive, he was killed by the fire. therefore, even if covenant died in the first chronicles, he would go on living till he died of the things he died of back home, regardless of time or anything else, in the end an off worlder WILL go back home the way he came.
Thank god i got that off my chest. i'd like anybody who could change my mind about this, so if you have a different opinion your wrong, but feel free to come and lose an argument anyway.

[Ryzel]

An interesting point here, and certainly a valid one.

I must state though, that I have always considered the breaking of the Law of Life to be Caer-Caverals doing and that the price he had to pay for doing something like that was his life.

As for Hile Troy being in coma, that is one theory but I seem to remember vaguely that the reason Hile Troy can exist in the Land at all is that his summoner (Atiaran) took his own death for herself and thus bought his summoning with her own life. That sounds quite strange, I know, but there are several hints that people who are willing to spend their own life to achieve something usually succeed in the Land. Although the result may not be what they desire.

[Revan]

I also forgot to put in that covenant went up to the tree that was once the forestal and said "From fire to fire. First Hamako, then honninscrave, now you. i hope you've found a little peace."

[kevinswatch]

Hm, wow. That's pretty cool. I think I see the connection. Hale Troy was in a large fire in our world when he was summoned by Atiaran, right? Wow. Quite a connection. That wacky SRD.-jay

[Revan]

I've thought about it, and i think that he did die when he became a Forestal. Think about it, whenever Thomas left the land, something always happened to copy the shape he was in earlier. And Troy went blind before he became a Forestal. I think the reason why he remained Troy while he was a forestal is because the law of death was broken just before.

[Skyweir]

I am not sure about that .. anyone chosen could become a
Forestal .. and by becoming one .. that didnt mean the end of who they were per se

SRD wrote HT's merging into a Forestal as a death scene from memory .. but clearly he wasnt .. 'dead' in the more orthodox sense of the word ..

the scene you cited was of yet another suedo death scene kinda .. and in that scene you are right and very profoundly observed .. he realised his death in our world .. the one meant for him ..


ryzel made an interesting observation about Atiaran .. and her trading places with Troy .. in essence experiencing his death .. and it becoming her own death ..

maybe that very act bought HT his post-our world longevity and existence in the Land ..

i think this is very interesting .. but i think there is something more that we're missing ..

[I'm Murrin]

'I was once, and may be again' - Hile Troy didn't die until the end.

I had considered it this way before - it seemed obvious from the second chrons that if he died (there was no chance he survived - remember how wen he first was summoned the fire that would have killed him was passed on to Atiaran - that means he was already burning during the summoning), he would die in an equivalent way when he left, no matter how long that took. Hadn't really noticed the link in that scene before, though. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Skyweir]

p.s. hope you dont mind me editing your first post Tuvor .. just to fix the quotation thingo ..

[danlo]

...geez! Sorry I brought up the coma crap in the 1st place!...it was just a thought...HT as Caer and his longevity do go against the Our World/Land timeline. HT is obiously a different phenomenon than TC or LA--but what makes him so? Atiaran xperiencing his immanent death? Wildwood's passing, or the Land's personal involvement in his summoning?

While I am humbled by ur post, I'm also w/Sky when Sky points out,

i think this is very interesting .. but i think there is something more that we're missing ...

[GSG]

WOW Tuvor, in something like 10 readings I completly missed that. That's great!

Just a small sentence that brings a whole new level of consistency to the way The Land works. That's the kind of stuff that really makes me appreciate SRD.

I must state though, that I have always considered the breaking of the Law of Life to be Caer-Caverals doing and that the price he had to pay for doing something like that was his life.

"Breaking the Law of Life." What was that? Elena broke the law of death when she used the Power of Command to summon Kevin from the dead (that idiot). Or was it the Forrestal using the Colossus of the Fall to break the Staff of Law?