Read at your own risk

[I'm Murrin]

You know, that didn't provoke much thought for me at all - but then again, the message is clearly aimed at christians. Reminded me of how different things are in the US religiously, perhaps.

[Edge]

You know, that didn't provoke much thought for me at all - but then again, the message is clearly aimed at christians.

Obviously.

I find it a bit disconcerting that a thread with a Christian topic has remarks like this thrown in.

The Watchers who are Christians are polite enough not to post disparaging remarks in topics centered around atheism or Judaism or neo-paganism - don't they deserve the same respect in return?

[Lord Mhoram]

Edge,

Calm down. Murrin didn't find it thought-provoking. He has the right not to, as he has the right to post that he feels so. I didn't really find it "disparaging." And God forbid anyone disagree with a Christian notion.

[caamora]

I, too, tried not to take offense at this remark, Murrin.

It seems that this is not simply aimed at Christians but at everyone. We could all be a little kinder and more hesitant to throw darts.

Goodness knows, we come up with as many targets as we can around here!

[I'm Murrin]

I'm sorry, I didn't intend my remark to be disparaging in any way. I'm not sure I agree that it can be a message for non-christians also, because without the belief the imagery of the Jesus picture lacks meaning, and the points listed after the story are all christian specific. The only part that I feel could really have meant anything to me personally is the segment HLT quoted:

> Isn't it funny how when you go to forward this message, you will not
> send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they
> believe, or what they will think of you for sending it to them.

Which is a very astute comment on how we deal with many things in life, especially those concerning our beliefs.

[[Syl]]

I was just going to walk away from this thread, but if something as mild as Murrin's comment gets him a rebuke I feel compelled to say something.

The quoted text is a chain letter. We are not required to praise its wisdom. Since it was shared publicly with no caveats attatched, it is open to comment by all, even non-christians, even people that... get ready for this... might not like it.

Murrin showed no disrespect. He just voiced an opinion. It was almost more of an observation than an opinion. Cryin' out loud, it's like a minefield around here sometimes.

I thought the email was intended to get us thinking...

[Lord Mhoram]

Syl,

But Christian thought is evenidently the only way to think. [/sarcasm]

[variol son]

Edit

[caamora]

Wow, you guys just blow me away!

I thought this was something that everyone could get something out of. At the very least try to love eachother a little more.

Seems that all it provoked was more darts - especially at Christianity.

I posted something I thought was very beautiful. I had hoped that people would see it for the good intention it was meant for, not to question its motives nor to start debate.

I'll be careful not to do it again.

In all seriousness, I am a little hurt.

[variol son]

I should probably say that I have a thing against internet chain letters, especially the christian ones. Had you posted the same message from a book or daily devotional I doubt I would have reacted so strongly against it. Strange I know, but I guess that's me.

So for what it's worth, I'm sorry, I didn't mean for you to be hurt or take offence. I just get angry at the whole "you have to send this on or else" aspect, because I think it actually detracts from the message.

The idea that everytime we hate someone that someone we love suffers the consequences of that hate is powerful. To think that by backstabbing a workmate I'm backstabbing a friend is disconcerting. The last bit just takes away from the power of that, imho.

Sorry once again.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[caamora]

Well, I apologize because I did not mean to infer any guilt nor was this an attempt to convert anyone.

It made me think a little about how I treat others and I thought others might think a little too.

Unfortunately, it created negative thoughts too.

[[Syl]]

We love ya, Caam, and we don't mean to slight you or even Christianity (that's just not our thing, y'know?), I think. We're glad you're sharing stuff, and I know Edge and others really enjoy it. The only thing any of us have any contention with is the idea that "I like this so everybody else should."

[variol son]

Ah, there's no need for you to apologize. I was the one who allowed my opinions of chain letters (man that sounds dumb ) to influence the way I replied. You didn't do anything wrong.

I guess that's the unfortunate thing about christianity; negative thoughts a plenty from former adherents.

Take care caamora. Be well.

[matrixman]

When I read caamora's post, I assumed no ulterior motive on her part: I appreciated the article at face value for the "just be nice" message that it was, and I basically ignored the fact that it was in the form of a chain letter because that was beside the point. I admit I was initially a little taken aback by the negative responses; it seemed like we were dumping on a positive thing. However, variol son's explanation for his reaction has greatly helped me to understand his position. Sorry to hear that this sort of thing messed with your head in bible college, VS.

Back to the intent of caamora's post: no question that it's a good and honourable thing to try to be nicer to others (which may have the additional benefit of making one feel nicer about oneself). This is one of the reasons why Furls's Memorial Thread to her brother is so moving to me: Stephen was clearly someone who went out of his way to be nice to his fellow man and to act with grace even as others attacked and abused him, whether physically or psychologically. I certainly wish I had that same quality of character that Stephen had, to be able to "turn the other cheek" in stressful, angry situations. But I know that already many times in my life I've failed to keep my temper in check: I think I'm impressing people with how angry I can get, but I'm really just making an asinine fool of myself--if only I could see that while I'm doing it.

It's so bloody hard to be nice at times, though. I'm reminded of that line from Covenant: why are we so unable? I've probably taken it out of context, as I can't recall exactly where that line occurs (and context is important to Murrin, right? ) but it suits my line of thought here just fine.

[ChoChiyo]

Well, since it is late and no one seems to be around posting in the threads I'm involved in, I'll jump into this one.

First, I never pass on these things either--they feel a little manipulative to me. I never pass on ANY kind of chain letter. Especially the ones that threaten me with bad luck should I not to so. heh heh

Second, if it was a message that I found impressive, i am likely to verbally pass it on in some way--this one, I probably will, because it is a strong message.


I especially think of the so called "good Christians" in the White House who are bashing Cindy Sheehan.

Among lots of other hate mongers on both sides of the aisle.

The other one that I always remember is that of a little boy in a soap box derby who makes it to the very last heat with his sad little car--all the other kids have fancy ones they built with their dads, but he has no dad.

Before the heat, he asks if he can pray. After he prays, the guy in charge asks if he prayed to win. The little boy says, "Oh, no! That wouldn't be fair! I just prayed that God would make it so I wouldn't cry if I lost."

That one always chokes me up.

But, I deleted it.

[kevinswatch]

Little do you all know that the dark, sinister and secret purpose of the Watch is really to subconsciously convert you all to Jaydaism. Bwa ha ha ha.

Right...I'll be going to bed now.-jay

[lurch]

..I've been ASKED to THINK..You asked for it..here is what I Think....That document IS a Piece of Christian Propoganda.
It continues the grand tradition of Guilt. It fowards un truths as truth. The evil doers get to do whatever they want to do ..but us poor christians are restrained from doin what we want to do...HORSE CRAP!..On both parts!. There are LAWS that contain the uncivil. Those LAWS apply to EVERYBODY...the VULGAR and THE SELF RIGHTEOUS. Our founding fathers saw the WISDOM of a Secular Society.

The foundation of the message is BASED ON DECEIT. The "object lesson" does not lead to the following statements and their conclusions. THERE ARE Millions OF REASONS for NOT THROWING DARTS AT PICTURES OF A SELF DECIDED "ENEMY". THAT IN ITSELF is NOT the SOLEY OWNED TERRITORY of " CHRISTIANS". The HUBRIS involved is HILARIOUS!.. Placing Jesus's picture underneath,,then quoting scripture,,is a slite of hand trick that totally distracts from Jesus's message that was being quoted. Only a Devil is such a trickster.
This chain letter is meant for the soft minded, as it glorifys the soft minded.

Okay, okay, I'm the white tiger that just took a chunk of Roys skull out...maybe next time you'll be smarter when contemplating sticking your head into a tigers mouth...MEL

[[Syl]]

*goes into hiding*

[ChoChiyo]

Roy's skull???

ewwwww

[Fist and Faith]

Oh, I get it!!!! The Lurch on tv barely spoke at all!! It's like an irony! Took me until just now to catch on.