Classical Club Dec. 2005 - Mahler's Fifth Symphony

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duchess of malfi
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Classical Club Dec. 2005 - Mahler's Fifth Symphony

Post by duchess of malfi »

For those who are curious, here is some background on this particular symphony (gets more into the hardcore analysis stuff): inkpot.com/classical/mahsym5.html

And this is the version I listened to:
Conductor: Leonard Bernstein
Ensemble: Wiener Philharmoniker
Label: Deutsche Grammophon
Catalog: #23608
Audio CD (October 25, 1990)
Number of Discs: 1
ASIN: B000001G9F
Now for my own impression of this rather wonderful piece of music:

I first heard this piece of music in February of 2005 as played by the New York Philharmonic on a concert tour. While I have long been a fan of classical music, particularly that of Beethoven, I am a latecomer to Mahler.

This piece of music blew me away. 8O

At the time I first heard it, I was in heavy grief. My father had died just a little over a year before, and the anniversary of his death in mid-January stirred up my feelings of mourning again. I had also just (as I thought at the time) lost a friend who meant the world to me over a misunderstanding of great magnitude. I was in a pretty rough place emotionally.

From the opening muted trumpet solo of pure sorrow through the opening movements of the symphony, Mahler depicts the emotions of grief and loss perfectly in the language of music.

Listen for the horns in the opening movements. The horns equal loss. They cry and rage and quietly sob. The orchestra sometimes sobs and rages along with them, and sometimes the horns briefly play one melody while the orchestra plays another -- just as a person deeply in grief can be so confused. At times there is quiet contemplation, just as you sometimes sit down and quietly remember the person you loved so much. At one point the orchestra even breaks into what I call "demented carnival music". And yes -- when deep in grief sometimes you try to run away from it and lose yourself in either work or in forced play -- in frantic activity.

Yet in the third movement there are hints that happiness can still happen -- that there is still love and beauty in the world. But in the end, the grief still prevails.

The fourth movement is the famous adagio (slow movement) with the soothing and lovely harp music. Mahler wrote this as a love song, a courting gift, for the woman composer who captured his heart and whom he later married.

That love transforms the symphony.

I have always thought that the adagio represents not only love but also


acceptance.

You have accepted that the person you love so much is gone. And with that acceptance you realize that, even though you will always love that person and will never again receive their love in this lifetime -- you are still alive. You can still love. That there is still so much beauty in the world. Perhaps you can no longer share it with your lost one, but the value of life -- love -- beauty -- still exists.

The final movement, the fifth, begins with horns once again. But these horns are not sobbing with grief. This is the horn music Donaldson uses in Mordant's Need. These are the horns that Teresa Morgan hears throughout her story -- the horns that call her to life, to adventure, to duty to others -- to love.

And a work of profound, passionate grief has been transformed through love and acceptance into a work filled with life and with joy.
Love as thou wilt.

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Post by Fist and Faith »

I honestly don't know a single Mahler piece. I have some, but have listened so seldom that I wouldn't recognize them. Or course, that also means I never studied him in school.

So I'm coming into this with absolutely no idea what to expect. And, duchess, you did a fantastic job!!! You brought it to life. Even if this isn't what anyone else would hear in it, even if it's not what Mahler had in mind (I have no idea if he had this, or any other specific ideas in mind), you gave it meaning. If music doesn't touch us, I have no idea what the point of it is. Nice job!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
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Post by duchess of malfi »

I hope that you enjoy the symphony as much as I do, Fisty! :D 8)

At a time when I was as close to despair as I have ever known, it gave me a serious reminder about love, faith, and hope. :D Can't ask for more than that! :D 8)
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Post by matrixman »

Thanks for the link, duchess. That's a great find on the Web for classical reviews! Mr. Derek Lim's commentary on the Fifth is very lucid.

I agree that the finale's horns could stand in for the ones Terisa hears in Mordant. A very fitting match. :) For me, much of Mahler conjures up the Land and its combatants. The soul-searching dramas played out in his music mirror the self-doubts and crises Covenant and Linden face in the "moral arena" of the Land. And (in my mind) it takes something monumental like a Mahler symphony to properly convey the immense forces at work in the Land and the Earth. Both Donaldson's Land and Mahler's symphonies are vast creations, yet they are also economically and efficiently constructed. Just as there is very little "padding" in Donaldson's storytelling, IMO, there is little that is superfluous in Mahler's music-telling.

Okay, I got off track. I exhausted myself on that paragraph trying to get across what I wanted to say about Donaldson and Mahler. That topic deserves its own thread.

I'll put down my thoughts about the Fifth Symphony later, though between your dissection and the web article, I'm not sure what else I could add. :faint:

I enjoyed your summary of the work, duchess, and it's an affecting story you tell. I didn't realize this music meant so much to you.

The Fifth is also the only Mahler work I've heard in concert - not by the New York Philharmonic, mind you. I'm sooo jealous. (However, I'm proud of our own orchestra, the WSO, which is a fabulous ensemble in its own right.)
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Post by Damelon »

The adigio from Mahler's Fifth Symphony, along with that from Schubert's String Quintet, are to me the greatest pieces of slow tempo music ever written. It's so great that I tend to listen to it alone rather than the whole symphony.

Your description of the music, duchess, is excellent.
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Post by Usivius »

(finally)
Ok I finally borrowed a copy of this. After two listens I must confess that it did not 'grab' me. As way of explanation: as with movies, I have two categories of music that I like: one type that I can listen to anytime, regardless of mood, and the type that I crave only when I am in a certain mood. Generally speaking, Mahler falls in to the latter category.

I love his deliberate composition. It somehow feels right and natural. But it is generally too slow for me. This is the music I would listen to when I am feeling serine and restful, lying down on my couch with the lights down low...

As with many composers of the early 20th century, there is a nice mix of horns with 'traditional ' strings. It adds that extra dimension of emotion one can commit to a piece, and Mahler uses them well, especially in the Adagietto.

Overall I will rate this in two ways: objestively and subjectively.

O: 8 out of 10
S: 6 out of 10


(so, what piece is next... I like this!)
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Post by duchess of malfi »

Usivius wrote:(finally)
(so, what piece is next... I like this!)
Well, someone must step forward and volunteer for next month. :)

Otherwise on the first weekend in January you might find me going all fangirl about Beethoven or choosing some bizarre piece of 21st century classical music for you to all listen to. :wink:
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Post by Usivius »

:wave: OH! Me! Pick me!

Let me check my catalogue and pick something. I will (if I rememebr once I get home), post my suggestion tomorrow!
K?
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Post by duchess of malfi »

If you want it, it's yours. :)
Love as thou wilt.

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Post by Fist and Faith »

Cool :D
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon

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Post by Damelon »

Go for it! :)
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Post by matrixman »

No pressure, Usivius, but...give us something SPECTACULAR to ring in the new year!

(Heh, just kidding.) :P
duchess of malfi wrote:...you might find me...choosing some bizarre piece of 21st century classical music for you to all listen to.
Don't give me any ideas! MWUA HA HA! :twisted:

Anyway, last week while browsing the bookstore I came serendipitously upon a wonderful book called The Mahler Symphonies: An Owner's Manual by David Hurwitz. (Lo and behold, I searched Amazon and there it was. Also has a good editorial review.)

:wink: This book truly does "dissect" every Mahler symphony, movement by movement (except the unfinished Tenth, which is left out of the book). Fortunately, it's a non-technical guide that clearly lays out Mahler's grand symphonic designs for anyone to understand. Hurwitz has an engaging style, and it's not hard to be swept up in his enthusiasm for Mahler's music. I highly recommend this book! It's the perfect accompaniment as you're journeying through the symphonies on your music system. 8)

Here's an excerpt in which Hurwitz describes the relationship between the Fourth and Fifth Symphonies, showing how there is a lot of cross-fertilization between Mahler's works:
The Fourth Symphony showed Mahler how to get past the problem of the romantic "finale symphony," the pressure that post-Beethoven composers often felt to create works with triumphant grand finales, despite the fact that conventional classical form tends to put the greatest formal weight and complexity in sonata form first movements and dictates that finales should be more simply organized, lighthearted rondos. No composer approached this problem more practically, successfully, or ingeniously than did Mahler. After writing three symphonies with three very different types of triumphant finale (both vocal and purely instrumental), he produced the anti-romantic Fourth Symphony, in which the weightiest part is neither its first movement nor its finale, but rather its third movement adagio.

The Fifth Symphony carries this formal experimentation even further, placing greatest emphasis on the huge central Scherzo, possibly the only symphony in history ever to adopt a structure of this type. Flanking the Scherzo are two pairs of movements. In each pair, the slow initial movement serves both as an introduction and source of thematic material for the longer, more complex one that follows. Mahler then connects both pairs by having the big brass chorale that erupts at the end of the second movement return as the climax of the symphony's finale. It's a wonderfully imaginative and unique symphonic structure.
And Hurwitz has some interesting observations about the Fifth in performance:
The Fifth remains the toughest of all Mahler's symphonies to bring off successfully in performance, not because it's uniquely long or complicated, but because of how hard it is to play, especially for the strings. It probably has more fast music in it (counting the Scherzo) as a percentage of the whole work than any other symphony of Mahler's, and because it's not a full evening's length (it usually runs about 65 to 70 minutes, or about as long as Beethoven's Ninth), it generally appears on the second half of a standard concert program -- meaning that most orchestras and conductors will have a hard time sustaining the necessary energy until the very end. Mahler always insisted that his music come first on any program so that the orchestra would be fresh, and indeed at one of the first performances of the Fifth, the players had to follow up this most tiring of symphonies with Richard Strauss's every bit as taxing Sinfonia Domestica! The brass players must have felt their lips about to fall off, and Strauss was quite annoyed that Mahler had left the band completely exhausted.

Practical performance problems aside, however, few symphonies are as expressively clear as this one. The negative, hostile, or sad emotions are mostly concentrated in the opening two movements, which Mahler designated Part 1. Peace, tranquility, happiness, and humor reign in the last two, called Part 3. The Scherzo, Part 2, serves as a giant fulcrum, partaking of both worlds while effecting a transition between them. This is, in fact, really all of the explanation you will ever need to understand the emotional curve of the music, but of course the details are so interesting that they repay closer consideration.
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Post by Usivius »

good posting Matrixman...

OK, You may notice I posted the next installment of our Classical Music review under a new posting... hint: his last name starts with an "M"....
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Post by Fist and Faith »

For those who don't know this song, it's the best! As if Mahler's wife's name - Alma Mahler - wasn't funny enough by itself, Tom Lehrer wrote her a song. It seems she was quite the popular gal, and married three of her many lovers. Aside from Gustav, she married architect Walter Gropius and Franz Werfel, author of the Song of Bernadette.

Alma

The loveliest girl in Vienna
Was Alma, the smartest as well
Once you picked her up on your antenna
You'd never be free of her spell

Her lovers were many and varied
From the day she began her beguine
There were three famous ones whom she married
And God knows how many between

Alma, tell us
All modern women are jealous
Which of your magical wands
Got you Gustav and Walter and Franz

The first one she married was Mahler
Whose buddies all knew him as Gustav
And each time he saw her he'd holler
"Ach, that is the fräulein I moost hav!"

Their marriage, however, was murder
He'd scream to the heavens above
"I'm writing
Das Lied von der Erde
And she only wants to make love!"

Alma, tell us
All modern women are jealous
You should have a statue in bronze
For bagging Gustav and Walter and Franz

While married to Gus, she met Gropius
And soon she was swinging with Walter
Gus died, and her tear drops were copious
She cried all the way to the altar

But he would work late at the Bauhaus
And only come home now and then
She said, "What am I running, a chow house?
It's time to change partners again"

Alma, tell us
All modern women are jealous
Though you didn't even use Ponds
You got Gustav and Walter and Franz

While married to Walt she'd met Werfel
And he too was caught in her net
He married her, but he was carefel
'Cause Alma was no Bernadette

And that is the story of Alma
Who knew how to receive and to give
The body that reached her embalma
Was one that had known how to live

Alma, tell us
How can they help being jealous
Ducks always envy the swans
Who get Gustav and Walter
You never did falter
With Gustav and Walter and Franz
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon

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