Roleplaying as the Unbeliever
Moderators: Orlion, kevinswatch
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Guest
What you need is to consider what kind of game system that could best incorporate what you think is essential of the Land and the abilities of the people who live there.
I have given just passing consideration to this, but I think you might be well served by using any kind of divine (clerical) magic if you are familiar with this as earthpower. This means that in purely D&D terms all the lords would be clerics of a specific mythoi.
I would also think that some kind of attribute linked magic point system would be more appropriate than using any kind of standard spell memorisation system. We have several examples of lords using any kind of power at their disposal, but that they became exhausted by it.
Personally I would not be inclined to use the D&D system at all, but instead try to adapt something else. I have considered an adaption using GURPS rules, with an especial mythoi constructed for the sake of Kevins Lore and variants for other kinds of earthpower use, and that would work quite well too I think.
I have given just passing consideration to this, but I think you might be well served by using any kind of divine (clerical) magic if you are familiar with this as earthpower. This means that in purely D&D terms all the lords would be clerics of a specific mythoi.
I would also think that some kind of attribute linked magic point system would be more appropriate than using any kind of standard spell memorisation system. We have several examples of lords using any kind of power at their disposal, but that they became exhausted by it.
Personally I would not be inclined to use the D&D system at all, but instead try to adapt something else. I have considered an adaption using GURPS rules, with an especial mythoi constructed for the sake of Kevins Lore and variants for other kinds of earthpower use, and that would work quite well too I think.
"Und wenn sie mich suchen, ich halte mich in der Nähe des Wahnsinns auf." Bernd das Brot
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Guest
Thanks Ryzel, you make sense to me. I was thinking of using Druid as the class because I think that would relate best to the Earth Power.
How about stats?
Strength
Dexterity
Constitution
Intelligence
Wisdom
Charisma ?
I'm thinking the STR/DEX/CON/CHR would be on the low side (esp the Constitution) and the INT and WIS would be higher. That fits well with spell use because Wisdom is the prime requisite for Clerics and Druids and Intelligence is for Sorcerers and Wizards.
Maybe a Druid/Sorcerer multiclass.
I'm also trying to figure out how the charcter would actually use magic, since Thomas Covenant can't really control the wild magic he triggers it really. I'm thinking of using a system where he needs an item to trigger the wild magic, and the type and strength of the item will determine the effect. For example, a simple +1 staff will trigger a small amount of magic, and a more powerful staff (Staff of Law) or item will produce a much greater effect.
Well, that's it for my rant. BTW you guys have a nice board here, maybe I'll sign up and hang out here
Alex
How about stats?
Strength
Dexterity
Constitution
Intelligence
Wisdom
Charisma ?
I'm thinking the STR/DEX/CON/CHR would be on the low side (esp the Constitution) and the INT and WIS would be higher. That fits well with spell use because Wisdom is the prime requisite for Clerics and Druids and Intelligence is for Sorcerers and Wizards.
Maybe a Druid/Sorcerer multiclass.
I'm also trying to figure out how the charcter would actually use magic, since Thomas Covenant can't really control the wild magic he triggers it really. I'm thinking of using a system where he needs an item to trigger the wild magic, and the type and strength of the item will determine the effect. For example, a simple +1 staff will trigger a small amount of magic, and a more powerful staff (Staff of Law) or item will produce a much greater effect.
Well, that's it for my rant. BTW you guys have a nice board here, maybe I'll sign up and hang out here
Alex
I'm going to tackle this one. I'm not sure why.
S - 8
D - 10
C - 12
I - 15
W - starts at 14, increases to 18 by end of 1st series, 20 by 2nd series.
CH - 7
But this is extremely difficult. Covenant is often weak, but he handles things that could kill 10 normal people, making constitution difficult. Charisma - some people hate him, implying a low charisma. But some people love him - the hand, the craziness, the ring - it's like he has two charismas. He starts wise, but clearly his wisdom increases throughout the novels. Strength and dexterity, at least, are straightforward.
You also have to decide which covenant you want, 1st series or 2nd series. 1st series Covenant has no power. He's not a druid; hes a nothing. He has no power, limited fighting ability, etc. He just has a ring that can be triggered when near a power source.
2nd series Covenant has enormous power, but he cannot control it. In using his power, he'd always be risking killing his friends and allies. Or destroying huge castles, etc. So he could only use the power in uttermost extremity. On the other hand, I still don't think he's a druid or magic user - he has no spells, only a ring that is more powerful than any spell. It's clear that, by the end of the 2nd series, Covenant with the ring is immune to magic.
So either way it's really tricky.
Also, Covenant's BEST attribute is something that you can't analyze. Covenant is highly moral, but he is immune to despair. Things that would absolutely break other people just wash off him. I'm not sure how you would play that, but if that isn't somehow involved in the game, you aren't really playing Covenant, just some guy with a magic ring.
Hope this helps.
S - 8
D - 10
C - 12
I - 15
W - starts at 14, increases to 18 by end of 1st series, 20 by 2nd series.
CH - 7
But this is extremely difficult. Covenant is often weak, but he handles things that could kill 10 normal people, making constitution difficult. Charisma - some people hate him, implying a low charisma. But some people love him - the hand, the craziness, the ring - it's like he has two charismas. He starts wise, but clearly his wisdom increases throughout the novels. Strength and dexterity, at least, are straightforward.
You also have to decide which covenant you want, 1st series or 2nd series. 1st series Covenant has no power. He's not a druid; hes a nothing. He has no power, limited fighting ability, etc. He just has a ring that can be triggered when near a power source.
2nd series Covenant has enormous power, but he cannot control it. In using his power, he'd always be risking killing his friends and allies. Or destroying huge castles, etc. So he could only use the power in uttermost extremity. On the other hand, I still don't think he's a druid or magic user - he has no spells, only a ring that is more powerful than any spell. It's clear that, by the end of the 2nd series, Covenant with the ring is immune to magic.
So either way it's really tricky.
Also, Covenant's BEST attribute is something that you can't analyze. Covenant is highly moral, but he is immune to despair. Things that would absolutely break other people just wash off him. I'm not sure how you would play that, but if that isn't somehow involved in the game, you aren't really playing Covenant, just some guy with a magic ring.
Hope this helps.
Anonymous wrote:Thanks Ryzel, you make sense to me. I was thinking of using Druid as the class because I think that would relate best to the Earth Power.
How about stats?
Strength
Dexterity
Constitution
Intelligence
Wisdom
Charisma ?
I'm thinking the STR/DEX/CON/CHR would be on the low side (esp the Constitution) and the INT and WIS would be higher. That fits well with spell use because Wisdom is the prime requisite for Clerics and Druids and Intelligence is for Sorcerers and Wizards.
Maybe a Druid/Sorcerer multiclass.
I'm also trying to figure out how the charcter would actually use magic, since Thomas Covenant can't really control the wild magic he triggers it really. I'm thinking of using a system where he needs an item to trigger the wild magic, and the type and strength of the item will determine the effect. For example, a simple +1 staff will trigger a small amount of magic, and a more powerful staff (Staff of Law) or item will produce a much greater effect.
Well, that's it for my rant. BTW you guys have a nice board here, maybe I'll sign up and hang out here
Alex
I have not given a lot of thought to stats and stuff and Dukkha's answer seems to conver the important points.
Just remember that if you are playing any of the other people in the chronicles you will need to make specific changes. The Lords probably has high wisdom to go with their clerical magic and everybody has incredible constitution because of the earthpower. Just remember that the lords are not wimps, they did have to pass the War Ward tests after all so they were probably reasonably skilled with weapons.
Just remember that if you are playing any of the other people in the chronicles you will need to make specific changes. The Lords probably has high wisdom to go with their clerical magic and everybody has incredible constitution because of the earthpower. Just remember that the lords are not wimps, they did have to pass the War Ward tests after all so they were probably reasonably skilled with weapons.
"Und wenn sie mich suchen, ich halte mich in der Nähe des Wahnsinns auf." Bernd das Brot
You could well be right. What I was thinking of was that he was able to function---travel, even occasionally fight or use the ring---with leprosy, snake venom, broken limbs, and etc. That implied to me that his constitution is pretty high for somebody who isn't a fighter.caamora wrote:Dukka - I think your stats are right on! But, do you think TC's constitution would be so high? I would figure it would be like his strength. Then again, the white gold might help heal him.
On the other hand, by normal role-playing methods, the leprosy would probably lower his constitution, since diseases usually do that.
I've tried using Covenant in games and it's really tricky. He HAS to be a Non Player Character (NPC), however. He's simply too poweful, and too outside of normal RPG methods, to use him as a PC. Even his association with the PC party has to be limited. His power eventually means that the game ends up being about him. Why would you try to kill that local 9th level evil wizard, or raid that orc cavern, when you have Covenant around?
Hmm, I'm not sure I'd agree with your assessment there. I never got the impression that Covenant was particularly weak, in fact all the walking he did in LFB made him notably fitter. I'd say he'd be of average strength.
His dexterity on the other hand would be pretty damn low, as his numb hands and feet would restrict his ability to use tools effectively and we all remember the trouble he had climbing down Kevin's Watch.
His dexterity on the other hand would be pretty damn low, as his numb hands and feet would restrict his ability to use tools effectively and we all remember the trouble he had climbing down Kevin's Watch.
Q. Why do Communists drink herbal tea?
A. Because proper tea is theft.
A. Because proper tea is theft.
That's a good point re: Dexterity. Although in the first series he was cured much of the time. But you definitely have a point.Navarino wrote:Hmm, I'm not sure I'd agree with your assessment there. I never got the impression that Covenant was particularly weak, in fact all the walking he did in LFB made him notably fitter. I'd say he'd be of average strength.
His dexterity on the other hand would be pretty damn low, as his numb hands and feet would restrict his ability to use tools effectively and we all remember the trouble he had climbing down Kevin's Watch.
I'm not sure I buy the strength thing though. He's not physically strong. He's constantly over-powered by all sorts of creatures, etc. You could give him a point or two, but there's no way he's an 11 or 12.
I'd have to agree with dukkha here, playing any of the major characters from the series is tough at best.
TC was never truely a 'combat' based character, throughout the books he sought to find alternatives to the bloodshed that seemed to follow him, to me the wild magic was more of a curse and burden to him, Foul's Corruption did however push him more to using it as a weapon, that and his despair....
Being 'Lord Foul' now for many years on our game server I have always approached him as a NPC, the power of Corruption is far greater then any combat skill or Spell you could come up with, the RP and interaction being far more crucial then any stats or such.
TC was never truely a 'combat' based character, throughout the books he sought to find alternatives to the bloodshed that seemed to follow him, to me the wild magic was more of a curse and burden to him, Foul's Corruption did however push him more to using it as a weapon, that and his despair....
Being 'Lord Foul' now for many years on our game server I have always approached him as a NPC, the power of Corruption is far greater then any combat skill or Spell you could come up with, the RP and interaction being far more crucial then any stats or such.