Ok, I'm nearly finished with rereading Runes and that vision Linden has where the Worm at the World's End turns and looks at her has me wondering several things.
1. If the Worm is roused, does that automatically mean that the Arch of Time is broken as well? Or is it possible for the Arch of Time to stay intact and have the Worm meandering about within it?
2. Is the Worm sentient, or is it like a blind animal?
3. As I understand it, the Worm destroys the world by moving and shaking off the world that has become encrusted upon it. Would it be possilble to partially rouse the Worm and either put it back to sleep or have it decide on it's own that it wants to go to sleep?
4. What exactly is the Worm's relationship to the Creator? Doesn't it feed off stars, which we have been told in other myth are the Creator's children? For that matter, what is the Worm's relationship to Lord Foul?
If I am misremembering something about the Worm, please forgive and correct.
Any thoughts?
Rousing the Worm
Moderator: dlbpharmd
I will only answer question 1. (because I have to get to work now... 
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As I understand it, simply rousing the Worm will not bring about the collapse of the Arch of Time.
Foul was hoping that TC would use enough wild magic in battling the Worm while they were trying to get wood from the One Tree, that he would accidentally destroy the Arch of Time...
)As I understand it, simply rousing the Worm will not bring about the collapse of the Arch of Time.
Foul was hoping that TC would use enough wild magic in battling the Worm while they were trying to get wood from the One Tree, that he would accidentally destroy the Arch of Time...
~...with a floating smile and a light blue sponge...~
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Re: Rousing the Worm
1. Rousing the Worm and breaking the Arch both mean the end of the world; I don't think that there's any juice in persuing a distinction. But think on this: in the tale of the Worm, is there an Arch? In the mythos of the Arch, is there a Worm?
2. The Worm is definitely alive. But, as an element of a myth, it's zoological characteristics are not really important.
3. Did that not happen?
4. That is the sixty-four thousand dollar question, isn't it? There's no Creator, no need for a creator, in the tale of the Worm of the World's End. Nor that of the Würd. Nor is there a need for an enemy either. I would suggest that any connection is going to be on an allegorical level.
You may be interested in reading Donaldson's answers to questions in this area in the Gradual Interview (here). Although his responses are rather evasive, there are nuggets to be found.
2. The Worm is definitely alive. But, as an element of a myth, it's zoological characteristics are not really important.
3. Did that not happen?
4. That is the sixty-four thousand dollar question, isn't it? There's no Creator, no need for a creator, in the tale of the Worm of the World's End. Nor that of the Würd. Nor is there a need for an enemy either. I would suggest that any connection is going to be on an allegorical level.
Some have pondered this.Any thoughts?
You may be interested in reading Donaldson's answers to questions in this area in the Gradual Interview (here). Although his responses are rather evasive, there are nuggets to be found.
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I believe it says somewhere in the 2nd cron. That Foul wants TC to wake the Worm, not rouse it!
I think that if the worm wakes up then it's bye bye world. Thats why Foul wants it awake.
Maybe Linden just's rouses it, and then it goes back to sleep, or maybe she even sings it to sleep (remember she did sing the the Nicor and they are supposed to be related to the worm).
I also believe that the Worm is just a part of the Creators universe, or maybe the Chaos that ends all things. The 'nothing' part of the 'everything'?
But I doubt if it's sentinent. If it is it will be pissed by the stars putting it to sleep when it wakes up!!
I think that if the worm wakes up then it's bye bye world. Thats why Foul wants it awake.
Maybe Linden just's rouses it, and then it goes back to sleep, or maybe she even sings it to sleep (remember she did sing the the Nicor and they are supposed to be related to the worm).
I also believe that the Worm is just a part of the Creators universe, or maybe the Chaos that ends all things. The 'nothing' part of the 'everything'?
But I doubt if it's sentinent. If it is it will be pissed by the stars putting it to sleep when it wakes up!!
Hm, I guess I am off... I thought there was a difference between destroying the planet and breaking the Arch of Time. I thought the first could be done without destroying the latter.
No?... Because the world ends does not mean that the Arch does ...
Am I wacked? (be gentle)
No?... Because the world ends does not mean that the Arch does ...
Am I wacked? (be gentle)
~...with a floating smile and a light blue sponge...~
My opinion on question 1 coincides with yours, Usivius. That's important because of it's implications, if it is true. The big one there is that Lord Foul can't afford to have the Worm woken unless he is sure that the awakening will also break the Arch, or he is more or less permanently trapped within the Arch. In the Second Chronicles, Thomas Covenant's venom more or less assured that, but so far, there appears to be nothing like that in the Last Chronicles.
Let me go ahead and give my opinions on the other questions too....
I asked about the Worm being sentient because that vision Linden has has the Worm turning around to look at her. So far, we don't have any indication that Worm has an intelligence or an agenda, but that got me wondering. The idea that Linden might be able to send it back to sleep like she calmed the Nicor interesting.
I don't buy the idea we should treat all of the stories about the Creator, the Worm, and Lord Foul as pure mythology. In the context of the novels, all three of these are as real as any other character. Let me suggest one possible relationship for understanding them in relation to each other. Would it not be possible, as the Creator was forging the universe and as Foul was attempting to thwart him, that the Worm was one of the things that Foul threw into that creation? To counter that, either the Creator (or more likely the Creator's children who fell through the wounded rainbow) caused the Worm to fall asleep and brought good out of that thwarted evil? If all that were true, then I would postulate that the Elohim are those of the Creator's children that sacrificed themselves to keep the Worm senescent. Yep, Elohim could be stars in the process of being digested. Of course, other scenarios could be constructed as well.
Let me go ahead and give my opinions on the other questions too....
I asked about the Worm being sentient because that vision Linden has has the Worm turning around to look at her. So far, we don't have any indication that Worm has an intelligence or an agenda, but that got me wondering. The idea that Linden might be able to send it back to sleep like she calmed the Nicor interesting.
I don't buy the idea we should treat all of the stories about the Creator, the Worm, and Lord Foul as pure mythology. In the context of the novels, all three of these are as real as any other character. Let me suggest one possible relationship for understanding them in relation to each other. Would it not be possible, as the Creator was forging the universe and as Foul was attempting to thwart him, that the Worm was one of the things that Foul threw into that creation? To counter that, either the Creator (or more likely the Creator's children who fell through the wounded rainbow) caused the Worm to fall asleep and brought good out of that thwarted evil? If all that were true, then I would postulate that the Elohim are those of the Creator's children that sacrificed themselves to keep the Worm senescent. Yep, Elohim could be stars in the process of being digested. Of course, other scenarios could be constructed as well.
The Elohim act like gods! They live forever (as in they don't want to give that up! ever!!) They can do just about anything they want! (Time travel included).
They could be the Creators children (stars the worm ate)?
The arch is something that was created so that the world would have a place to be and 'a' time to be. SRD has said that the Arch is symbolic, but it does have a beginning and an end!
Not saying that we will see that end, but we could easily see it. The final dark...
A snake will turn and look at you, but is it sentient?
The Worm could be something of Foul, or something of the Creator, but I think we will all be left in the dark until SRD tells the tale. If he does
They could be the Creators children (stars the worm ate)?
The arch is something that was created so that the world would have a place to be and 'a' time to be. SRD has said that the Arch is symbolic, but it does have a beginning and an end!
Not saying that we will see that end, but we could easily see it. The final dark...
A snake will turn and look at you, but is it sentient?
The Worm could be something of Foul, or something of the Creator, but I think we will all be left in the dark until SRD tells the tale. If he does
I could swear that Findail says in TOT that Foul wins either way in Covenant's battle with the Worm: if Covenant uses too much wild magic, he'll shatter the arch, but if he doesn't use too much power, the Worm will shatter the Arch and Foul will be free. But then in WGW Findail says that if the Arch were shattered at a time when Foul didn't have the ring, Foul would be destroyed too. So I admit to being a bit confused by this.
I also am unclear as to the motivations of the Ravers with respect to this in particular (I know there's a separate thread about their general motivation). If the Arch is destroyed, the Ravers likely are destroyed too (after all, they're not gods). I know they have a hatred for all living things, but at the same time I don't think they covet their own demise...
I also am unclear as to the motivations of the Ravers with respect to this in particular (I know there's a separate thread about their general motivation). If the Arch is destroyed, the Ravers likely are destroyed too (after all, they're not gods). I know they have a hatred for all living things, but at the same time I don't think they covet their own demise...