Who chose Covenant?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon May 19, 2003 8:28 pm

Sorry to start a new thread about this. I remember reading some posts about it before, but I don't know which thread it was, and my search for it didn't help me. Bad search parameters?

Anyway, something or other just made me think about it. The question that has been discussed at times is - who chose Covenant to go to the Land? Foul and the Creator both claim to have chosen him. How could this have worked? The Foul-led Drool did the actual summoning, so Foul clearly had a lot to do with it. But if the Creator had wanted someone else, what would have happened?

Foul would certainly say the Creator had nothing to do with it, but did there have to be agreement between Foul and Creator? If so, they were in luck, because I think they both chose him. The Creator and Despite looked at all the white gold wielders of Covenant's world, and chose the same one. This is because, whether they were originally separate beings, or the Creator removed Despite from within himself, the Creator and Despite are yin and yang, opposite sides of the same coin. Wild magic saves or damns. The Creator looked at Covenant and saw in him the qualities that had the best chance of saving the Land, while Despite saw the qualities that had the best chance of damning the Land. Yes, they both knew there was risk. After all, white gold is a paradox. But they both believed they were choosing wisely. Being what they were in relation to each other, they couldn't have seen Covenant any other way.

Post by **Dromond** » Mon May 19, 2003 9:28 pm

My thought on this matter has always been this:
Foul struck out blindly for White Gold.
The Creator saw that Fouls' strike touched Covenant.

Post by **Damelon** » Tue May 20, 2003 12:07 am

It seems kind of like Foul doing a google search. "white gold" "diseased" - and Covenant's name came up first.

Since Drool was doing the search, not Foul, Covenant came to the top, but who pointed towards Covenant, the Creator.

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Tue May 20, 2003 12:16 am

didn't Foul actually say that his enemy (ie the creator) had chosen TC at their first meeting on kevins watch?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue May 20, 2003 12:36 am

Yes duchess. I had forgotten that. So I was wrong in thinking that Foul would deny the Creator had anything to do with it. I guess Foul figured he was stronger, or smarter, or whatever, and so capable of Corrupting even the Creator's chosen champion.

Post by **Skyweir** » Tue May 20, 2003 3:34 am

precisely duchess!

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue May 20, 2003 5:34 pm

I had thought of it as the idea of the contradiction - The Creator needed to choose someone who might destroy the world instead of saving it, and Covenant could do that.
Foul had a part in the selection too - Foul knew Covenant, with his leprosy, couldn't let himself believe in the Land, so was more easily caused to destroy it.
Also, since he was a halfhand a) The people of the Land would welcome him and treat him well (Creator), and b) He would be given honour he couldn't live up to (Foul).

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue May 20, 2003 6:37 pm

Excellent thinking Murrin!!! Darned fine job! I especially like that bit about the ramifications of being a halfhand!

Duchess, I'm still amazed that I forgot what Foul said to Covenant in LFB! He doesn't suggest that he had any role in the choosing. So my first post here is completely useless!

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Tue May 20, 2003 7:29 pm

Yes, I was also amazed that you had forgotten that!

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue May 20, 2003 7:32 pm

Why I oughta.....

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue May 20, 2003 7:54 pm

'But remember that he always seeks to deceive you'...

Post by **Skyweir** » Wed May 21, 2003 5:00 am

Mhoram wrote:Yes, I was also amazed that you had forgotten that!

me too .. i just wasnt gonna to say anything

LOL

Post by **danlo** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:17 pm

(you kno I've never been able 2 figure out how 2 put some1's name in lieu of the "quote"

) anyway, Murrin wrote,

The Creator needed to choose someone who might destroy the world instead of saving it

I'd just like to get all of ur reactions to why this seems futile 2 me, if it means freeing Foul from the Arch of Time. (not argueing just confused

2nd cupo coffee here I come!

)

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Wed May 21, 2003 6:57 pm

The Creator could not choose someone who woud win no matter what, because then he would become a tool, and a tool is only as good as its wielder (remember all the talk in TWL about why Linden was more important now that covenant 'belonged' to Foul).
Covenant was left to choose whether to save the Land or allow it to be destroyed because of his fears and doubts.

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Wed May 21, 2003 7:39 pm

Covenant was left to choose whether to save the Land or allow it to be destroyed because of his fears and doubts.

Hmmm me-thinks that Linden may have been offered the same choice, except she could either watch the Land be destroyed or save it.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Wed May 21, 2003 9:42 pm

Yes, in order to not be a tool of the Creator, Covenant had to have free will. And if he was unable to choose to destroy everything, that is, if he was limited in his choices, it wouldn't be free will. The Creator can't say, "You have free will. Do what you choose. BUT, you can't do X."

danlo, like this
[quote="Murrin"]

Post by **danlo** » Wed May 21, 2003 11:36 pm

Thanks--Sky showed me how 2 do it about a year ago, but I 4got...

Thanks Murrin! I kinda knew that but was groggy and wanted 2 fuel topic a little more...

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Who chose Covenant?

Who chose Covenant?