What Do You Think Today?

[peter]

We are told that our security services have upwards of 27,000 people on their watch list, 3000 of whom are considered to pose a significant risk to the general public. Why not round these individuals up, and subject to the scrutiny of the evidence against each one by a panel of three judges, offer them the choice of deportation to the country of their ethnic origin or permanent internment in a state facility exclusively used for the containment of high risk radicalised jihadis. They could at any time of their incarceration select to be deported, but once having done so they would be fingerprinted and retinal eye scanned and would never be allowed back into this country again. In the event of their country of ethnic origin refusing to allow the entry they could be batch transferred to one of the ungoverned regions were people of their own allegiance hold sway.

In respect of the radicalisation process as it occurs in the UK, the imams of every mosque should be required to sign and display a declaration that acts of violence against individuals or groups of people are absolutely contrary to the teachings of Islam and are condemned without question by the leaders of the faith. If they refuse to do so it may be reasonably assumed that they are in a degree in sympathy with the actions proscribed by the declaration and they should then be subject to the same deportation process outlined above.

Let's be clear about this - these are unfair measures to be taking in a free society, but there are no fair ways to deal with this situation and so all that remains is to select the least unfair options that are available. Our society cannot continue to be held to ransom by elements within it that would see it's destruction or forcible conversation to a way of life not of our choosing and the above methods do at least have the attributes of reuniting these individuals back into countries that operate more along those lines with which they are in sympathy.

[I'm Murrin]

peter,
1. We don't put people in internment camps.
2. Being on a watch list is not evidence of a crime.
3. You can't just decide because a country has problems with terrorism and violence it's somehow okay to ship dangerous individuals there, acting like lives in one country are somehow less worth protecting than those in another.

[Kizza]

I have no solutions to offer. Murder is not a solution. Sending refugee kids back to Syria for example is not a solution.

Even a *no dickheads* policy is not a solution. I can only offer support!

I will save the Liam Gallagher jokes for another time.

[Avatar]

In respect of the radicalisation process as it occurs in the UK...

So, it turns out we apparently don't actually know how or why people become terrorists... Rethinking Radicalisation (PDF)

--A

[peter]

peter,
1. We don't put people in internment camps.
2. Being on a watch list is not evidence of a crime.
3. You can't just decide because a country has problems with terrorism and violence it's somehow okay to ship dangerous individuals there, acting like lives in one country are somehow less worth protecting than those in another.

Absolutely accepted on all points.

But the one thing each and every one of us can do to demonstrate to these people that we don't want their world is to get out and vote. Even if it's for the MRLP, every vote cast is a two finger salute to them and their benighted mediaeval world view.

[peter]

One of the most telling moments of the election campaign was when Boris Johnson said on Peston on Sunday, in response to the question as to what had happened to the pre-Brexit pledge to put the three hundred and fifty million pounds a week saved on EU payments into the NHS that we should "forget about that and concentrate on getting the right negotiating team into power" in the election. Effectively he admitted that the public had been duped into supporting EU exit, but now we should just ignore that and get on with the job. More important now in my view than ever that the British people are given a further say as to whether any deal with Brussels should be ratified or not.

"Brexit - Because 17 Million Lemmings Can't Be Wrong!"

[Kizza]

It looks like the people who called this current UK vote may be left counting their fingers!

Two Australian women were among those murdered in the recent attacks in London.
Australia played the Saudi team in a soccer match in Adelaide last night.
The Australian team stopped to observe a minutes silence pre match - particularly since one of the slain women was local to South Australia.
What followed made me grumpy to say the least.

A media personality used the word duplicitous. I think she was right.

www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/footbal ... fb1e7c3515

[I'm Murrin]

Somewhat positive result on the election - hung parliament, but with the Tories close enough to majority that they can probably still form a government. I have no idea who is going to be PM after this; May's decision to call an election was a disaster, but some Tories are talking about needing to keep things stable going into Brexit negotiations so she might actually survive it.

I don't see Labour having a high chance of forming a government, since even with the SNP and Lib Dems they'd come up short.

[peter]

Pretty much my take Murrin. I don't think it's nearly the disaster many pundits and papers seem to be saying. Sure, it's uncomfortable for May, but hey - she's a big girl and politics can be a tough game - but for the Country, maybe not so bad. Agree she might still lead the Brexit talks - or will Boris think that at last his day might have come?

[I'm Murrin]

The thing with Brexit is, even though the DUP are pro-Brexit they're going to want an open border with Ireland, which will completely change what May's able to get through Parliament on the topic. Also, May only has a 3 seat majority including DUP, and there are a small handful of Tories who won't vote for hard Brexit. This changes a lot, we just don't know how much yet.

From what I understand, it's going to come down to the Queen's Speech, where May will lay out her agenda and Parliament gets to vote on it. If the vote fails, Corbyn gets his shot.

[peter]

It's going to be a hard balancing act to pull off, keeping all the potentially opposing factions in line. Potentially this election has a ways to run yet!

[Kizza]

Does Boris figure as a serious candidate?

(cant believe I asked that considering Donald Trump got where he is...)

[peter]

BJ might come across as a bit of a fool, but in reality he is a shrewd political operator. He has honed his buffoonish clown act to a fine art; he never oversteps the mark to the point where it would damage his chances of succeeding to the top job. He is a serious candidate - and all the more so given his high profile as a Brexiteer during the referendum campaign and with May much reduced in stature following her recent humiliation. He claims he's not interested in the top Job and that May has his full support - but everyone knows that could change at any time.

[Kizza]

Its winter in Australia. I peeked outside today. The world has gone mad. Madiba, oh Madiba....

I actually like Boris Johnson. He has an optimistic character and strikes me as ethical and proud. I don't know how long he would last with the foxes.

At last I am going skiing with my sons this week. . . . and my modest aim is to not fall over on the slopes too often or in any public houses at all.

Part two of State of Origin rugby league this week. The theatre of sport takes me away.

[peter]

Bread and circuses?

Yesterday we saw a sort of deranged response to the recent horrors of Manchester and London Bridge when a man drove a van into a group of Muslims attending a collapsed individual outside the Finsbury Park Mosque. Mercifully the toll of victims was limited (by current depressing standards) but the outrage must remain that anybody could be mad enough to think this an appropriate reply to the damage already heaped upon our society by such acts of hate. Massive respect for the Imam and attendees of the mosque who restrained the perpetrator, but also protected him from the vengeance of the crowd until the police arrived - theirs are the acts we should be emulating, not the barbarous ones chosen by this fool.

[Avatar]

Agreed.

I suppose things are always mad, it's just that the times we are living through seem madder by their proximity.

--A

[peter]

Favourite quote from the recent General Election; "You can't have Scandinavian levels of public services with American levels of taxation."

Why is the idea of collective payment by progressive taxation for services that none could afford individually such anathema for people today. In the times of generations past people were perfectly happy with much higher levels of income related taxation in return for state provision of the basic needs of their lives. In fact it was the successful implementation of such a program in the post war years that freed up much of peoples income for disposable consumption and resulted in Harold McMillan being able to tell the British public "You've never had it so good!"

[I'm Murrin]

The increase in social services in the mid 20th century was a response to the Great Depression; one almost suspects it'll take another such disaster to remind people why. We might be in luck on that front, however, as the US have repealed the law that was specifically created to prevent the 2008 crash from happening again.

[peter]

Near 1000 people cleared from their homes at 8pm on a Friday night with no warning, because the council and fire department decided their tower blocks are clad in non fire resistant material. I know safety is important and I know the work had to be done - but damn it seems heavy handed. Was there really no other way of handling this?

[Sorus]

Near 1000 people cleared from their homes at 8pm on a Friday night with no warning, because the council and fire department decided their tower blocks are clad in non fire resistant material. I know safety is important and I know the work had to be done - but damn it seems heavy handed. Was there really no other way of handling this?

There are similar things happening here, and there isn't a good answer. (Except not cutting corners in the first place.) At least it shows that the problem is being taken seriously. Here, I'd say, the problem isn't being taken seriously enough.