What Do You Think Today?

[Skyweir]

[peter]

A guy came into the shop the other day. Poor bastard had just undergone a bout of hospitalisation as a result of the acknowledged to be excruciatingly painful condition of passing a kidney stone.

It was he told me "More painful than having a baby! My surgeon told me it's been proved!"

Why do people persist in such meaningless comparisons; I've heard this old chestnut repeatedly before and it annoys the hell out of me. Was the guys surgeon truly stupid enough to say this (I somehow doubt it). Do people hold up 'having a baby' as some kind of measuring stick against which all other pain must be judged - or is it like a way of doing women down, of saying "yes - you get it bad when giving birth, but I've had it worse!". (Nb - it should be noted that once the expression was used to me by a woman anyway.)

All pain is subjective; there is no way I'm aware of in which this pain can be physiologically demonstrated as being worse than that one, or that any two people's pain han be meaningfully compared, but this having been said, it is not a reason to insouciant, nonchalant about the distress and damage that pain can cause. There are degrees of pain experience in this world that you cannot but emerge a changed individual from - if you emerge at all! Despite the medical professions often casual attitude toward pain of and for itself, (over forty percent of terminal patients in the UK do not receive the palliative care they are in need of in their last weeks of life) I consider it to be the single most significant thing in reducing quality of life generally and the thing dealing with should be given the highest priority specifically, right across the board. My message to the medical profession is this; if you are not prepared to take this issue by the horns, to medicate quickly and to sufficient levels in respect of both quantity and type, then free up the purchasing restrictions imposed by the 'lists' (POM and PML) such that individuals can themselves make the purchasing choices (as advised by their pharmacist) necessary to deal with atrocious pain if one is unfortunate enough to be struck by it.

[Skyweir]

Fair comments Pete.

Re giving birth as a measuring stick .. youre dead right pain is subjective .. Ive known women give birth immediately following a contraction. My sister inlaw to be precise. She got a pang .. went to the hospital and an hour later badda boom baby.

Ive had labours last 30hours. But giving birth wasnt the most pain ever .. for me. I have a high pain threshold anyway .. but I recall one labour and hearing another woman screaming with pain. Me .. yes in pain but screaming? No.

But we ARE all so different.

As to the medicating of pain. Im not 100 percent in agreement. Sure in a palliative circumstance .. sure medicate the shit out of that pain

However, pain as much as it IS real it can be controlled psychologically or mentally.

I worked once with a Burmese Buddhist who used to say some crazy things. Like, my husband gets annoyed by random noises, like a ticking clock. I used to have one in the bedroom.. but had to relocate it as it drove him mad. My Buddhist friend said .. its just noise. Yup, pretty much got that. But his point was isolating the issue. Seeing a thing that annoys you as just a noise, means you can dismantle and rationalise your REACTION to it.

Im not sure if thats clear. So pain is a similar experience. So here there is a movement to held people manage pain without medication by dismantling and rationalising your reaction to it.

[peter]

Perhaps I should be clear Sky - I'm not talking about the kind of pain you grumble about and then get on with your day here. I'm talking about the kind that can render you unconscious, the kind that puts the legs out from under you and induces a state of shock. Hospitals are notoriously casual when people present with such pain - it doesn't register in and of itself as a medical emergency and is thus not high up the scale in triage. This is wholly wrong.

[Skyweir]

Indeed it is

[balon!]

Another one: trying to use a number chart to describe levels of pain. Dunno how well that would work with me, I just dont think this way.

I've only had broken bones, which hurt for sure, but didn't change my state of mine. On the other hand I know a person who had a serious accident that the aftermath of surviving changed their entire life. I guess there but for the grace of god go I.

[Sorus]

I hate that stupid chart. They seem to expect people to exaggerate, so I try to downplay my response - either way, it makes the system pretty pointless.

[Avatar]

Sure, but down-playing it when they expect you to exaggerate means they think it's less severe than you say...

--A

[sgt.null]

I have such a high tolerance for pain that I did not notice that the surgery I had in 2012 to fix my ankle did not work. It took until six years later in 2018 for me to get it checked. The bone never fused the way it should have and the screws are attached to nothing. So all the doctor did was clean out the scar tissue, ligaments and some bone that acted as a buffer. Now there is a gap in the bone.

[Vraith]

Sure, but down-playing it when they expect you to exaggerate means they think it's less severe than you say...

--A

Not to mention they're stupid biased no matter what you say.
Take ten people of various appearances.
Take a hammer and break their fingers.
No matter WHAT the "patients" say, the Dr. will prescribe more, less, or no pain treatments depending on what they look like.

And, of course, as people have been pointing at...pain is weird.
"Pain tolerance" is strange...and I think, dumb.
Cuz [among many other important factors] if you bash ten people at once and break their hands, you literally cannot tell the difference between people who have a high pain or low pain tolerance [it hurts the same, but some can bear it...at least for now....others can't], people who have high/low/tangent AFFECT[I personally have a "shoutOUCH, then laugh/swear reaction], and people who literally "hurt less" and "hurt more."
There is and infinite rainbow of other reactions, depending on scale, kind, duration, etc...
But everyone pretends there are only tough people who suck it up...and everyone else. [[and which group outsiders place the hurt in is way the fuck more based on bias than fact]].

[Sorus]

Sure, but down-playing it when they expect you to exaggerate means they think it's less severe than you say...

--A

That's why I'm of the opinion that it's pointless. I have to try to guess what they want me to say. Too low, they won't take me seriously, too high, they assume you're just after drugs. I'm the sort of person who only goes to the hospital if I'm pretty sure the problem won't go away on its own, so it irks me quite a bit when they don't take me seriously. No, I don't just have the flu. I wouldn't be here if I just had the flu. /rant

[Skyweir]

[Avatar]

Haha, yeah, I need to be afraid I'm dying before I go to a doctor.

--A

[Skyweir]

Stoic is as stoic does

[Kizza]

I always thought that a good pain comparison was if it is like slamming your fingers in the car door.
Or maybe a big or small compound fracture.
But leave me out of that giving birth stuff!

[Skyweir]

oh Kizza its not that bad .. just imagine pushing a watermelon through one of your small orafices and youd be close

Someone else slammed my thumb in a car door about 20 years ago .. it busted up my thumb and split my thumb nail in two and its split still.

[peter]

Horrendous news footage as I post of the beautiful cathedral of Notre Dame in flames. This is a terrible day for architecture lovers, for lovers of history, for lovers of art, of Paris, of France. What can I say.......

.......be safe firemen, people, anyone involved in dealing with this most awful event. We need no more tragedy added to that which has already befallen.

[Avatar]

Indeed, terrible news.

--A

[Skyweir]

Yes very sad. I was heartened to read a millionaire or two are donating big bucks in its reconstruction.

Very sad indeed .. an iconic historical structure. I also read that the structure is still sound. Likely thanks to firefighters.

[Avatar]

Of course, now people are pointing out how easily the rich can get things done when they actually care to...

--A