A Game of Thrones

[dlbpharmd]

It occurred to me last night that The Hound is a little brother - although I don't think it's relevant in this context.

I really enjoyed this past episode - so emotional, so rewarding as well.

I had a dream last night that a friend had a secret passcode that made all the episodes drop, and I watched the last episode. All of my theories were complete crap, and a new character that no one had ever heard of was introduced and sat on the Iron Throne. I was wicked pissed.

[wayfriend]

Here's my Bran theory. The whole Hodor incident was included to demonstrate that Bran can affect the past. Therefore, the Night King must be threatened by Bran because Bran can do something in the past which will cause his downfall in the near future. But it's nothing like killing the Night King's mother before he was born or anything like that, because Bran can't change the course of history (as far as we know). What Bran does is he fulfills an event in the past that has always been. This means that the Night King already knows what Bran will do, and already knows it will mean his imminent downfall. So: the Night King is the one trying to change the course of history, by killing Bran before Bran does whatever he does in the past that screws the Night King. Make sense?

So my prediction is that Bran lures the Night King to the god tree so that he can fulfill this past event. Somehow. But that's all I got.

All of my theories were complete crap, and a new character that no one had ever heard of was introduced and sat on the Iron Throne. I was wicked pissed.

Well, I fully expect all *my* theories are complete crap. But the new character would certainly piss me off. Then again, I can see this actually happening - it would be an object lesson in brutal medieval politics.

[Cagliostro]

Nah, it's Euron. Euron is going to win the Iron Throne. He will Euronate all over it.

[Zarathustra]

Ha, the crazy thing is that this wouldn't be the first pissing scene in the show!

[Cagliostro]

And how many shows can you say that about?

[Sorus]

Yes there were and may still be other 3 eyed ravens .. but I dont then understand the Night Kings alleged obsession with killing Bran.

It maketh not a lot of sense much like Jons uncle half undeadness

Wild speculation time:

Bran is currently the only Three-Eyed Raven. He would be aware if there were others, and it would have been mentioned by now. (Though there are probably other Greenseers, and what are they up to?)

"He will come for me. He's tried before, many times, with many Three-Eyed Ravens."

Has it always been the same Night King, or is the role/title passed down?

Benjen Stark was brought back by the Children of the Forest, not the Night King. Which explains his autonomy, but why him, and why only him?

It occurred to me last night that The Hound is a little brother - although I don't think it's relevant in this context.

I'm still going with Jaime. Especially since Tyrion was the 'obvious' answer for so long.

[Skyweir]

Ahhhh brilliantness Sorus and Wayfriend

Re the crap theories.. we are all pulling ideas out of our .... umm .... more speculative centres so all likely to be crap.

But brilliant points Sorus ... yessss .. that DOES make sense AND you solved the Uncle Benjin mystery for me... I must have missed that.

And yesss Dph the Hound is A little brother but YESS it could be Jaime ..

Id truly hate it if Euron was the last man standing.

There are a lot of little brothers .. Bran, Theon, Jaime, Tyrion... are there any more?

Now lets exclude the no chances of being THAT little brother....

Then as with prophecies in high valerian .. is the term gender neutral ie little brother could mean in the right circumstances little sister? Like the Prince that would come .. could mean the Princess that would come??

I agree Dph last weeks ep was emotionally rewarding It was almost a token pick me up prior to the devastation that will inevitably follow

[Sorus]

AND you solved the Uncle Benjin mystery for me... I must have missed that.

I somehow managed to forget. Oh, well. Yay for Google.

[wayfriend]

Predictions for Ep 3: Adios, Jaime. Toodaloo, Brienne. So long, Grey Worm. Nice knowing you, Gendry. It's been fun, Sansa. Goodbye, Jorah. Sweet dreams, Samwell. Have a good one, Theon. And fair well, Bran.

Hello, Zombies of same.

[Sorus]

Definitely going to be some losses from that list. Jaime will live to kill Cersei, then be killed by Bronn. Probably in episode 4 or 5. Sansa will live because... I'm not sure why, but her story isn't over.

Sansa and Tyrion will be alive at the end of the series. And maybe Arya. Daenerys and Jon Snow - not sure. I think at least one of them will live, but I don't see both, or if both, I don't see a happily-ever-after because it's not that kind of show. So, Daenerys on the Iron Throne, and Jon Snow... I don't know. Rebuilding the Wall and the Night's Watch? Becoming the King in the North? There have to be at least a few people to pick up the pieces and start rebuilding.

[Avatar]

I don't think Jaime will kill Cersei, but I do think they will die together. (Or they will kill each other.)

--A

[Zarathustra]

WARNING: SERIOUS SPOILERS.

I have mixed feelings about episode 3. I feel like it had a lot more potential that wasn't realized. The entire episode was difficult to see, so much of it happening in the dark or in the clouds. The Dothraki charge began in the background, without us being there to witness the moment the order was given. All of a sudden, they're just charging in the distance, and then finally the point of view catches up with them. Now, once it does, it was a VERY powerful scene! With the flaming projectiles flying overhead, and their flaming weapons, and their sheer numbers, it was impressive. I even liked the view from the distance when you see all their lights wink out, one by one. This is our first inkling that the battle really is going to be hopeless.

But after that, it was just a mess. I do appreciate the idea of things being too dark to see, thematically. It even played into the plot; part of it was a strategy of the Night King. But this is a visual medium. Watching it streaming online, all those dark tones just became a digital distortion. (On Blu-ray, maybe it will look better.)

The character moments were largely missing. I didn't realize until watching the writers talk about it afterward that Dany was upset about losing her Dothraki and she deviated from the plan out of emotion. Perhaps Jon should have argued with her to drive that point home! All it would have taken was a line or two. And I know that the Hound is scared of fire, but I'm sick of seeing him whimper in a corner. We've seen that already. I thought this was supposed to show how they've grown. Wouldn't it have been badass to see him overcome this fear at last? And Jon sees Sam struggling beneath a bunch of Dead, but then just turns away?? The little girl killing the giant seemed gimmicky. Pod and Gendry were lost in the shuffle. Hell, so were Jaime and Brienne. Neither got a line of dialog or even a cool fighting scene. Just swinging swords in the distance, blurred by Dead and dark. And what about Ghost??

Now, I did like that they resolved this at Winterfell, for reasons I've listed in a previous post. The battle truly was epic. It had the right amount of tension, ebb and flow. And I like how hopeless it seemed. I like how they backed everyone into a corner so you find yourself believing that they really are going to die. And I like how they were all saved at the last minute. I love that it was Arya who saved them, not only because of her as a character, but it makes sense of Dondarrion being brought back to life so many times. This was his purpose, to make sure that Arya was saved at a crucial moment so she could do her thing. (Dondarrion mentions this to the Hound in season 5 or 6, that they both have a purpose, so it's fitting that Clegane is there with him to save Arya.) It makes so much of the story seem, in hindsight, destined to happen.

I liked Theon's last stand, how he redeemed himself. I like Sansa's moment with Tyrion in the crypt. I like seeing the dragons fight, and even one of them being swarmed by the Dead. Never thought we'd see that!

Now the stage is set for Cercei. While the Night King was an existential threat, this series is called the Game of Thrones, after all. Who gets to sit on the Throne matters. And several of the main characters have their arcs settled by this question. So it's appropriate that the story turns this direction now.

[wayfriend]

Yeah, but ... Yeah but .... The whole three-eyed raven/night king thing was never explained!!! Why did the NK want Bran dead? Why did he want to do it personally? What was the point of the three-eyed raven at all? I feel like they are letting the loose ends go.

Not sure if Sam, Jaime, Brienne died. They look like they should have died.

[Zarathustra]

I agree that the NK's motivation seemed weak, and the 3-eyed raven has never really been explained, and that the NK didn't need to kill Bran personally, etc. Bad guys always seem to have dumb motivations (see the Avenger's thread for more on this ). It looks like we have good reasons to read the rest of Martin's books now! I hope he explains it better.

I do think that we saw Brienne, Jaime, and Sam after the NK was killed. I believe they survived. But again, it was hard to see things in this episode. After 6 seasons of glorious cinematography, this was a mess. (Again: most likely intentionally so.)

[Cagliostro]

Yeah, fog of war, and all that. I wasn't too annoyed with the not being able to see, but I constantly wondered if it was someone going down that I didn't want to go down or not, but that was the only annoyance. And when they did have someone go down, they tended to truly focus on it and leave no question.
A little over halfway through the battle, I realized there was no way to wrap this up WITHOUT taking out the Night King in this episode. And I guess you're right Z - it is called Game of Thrones and not A Song Of Ice and Fire. So it makes sense that the show's focus is on who gets the Iron Throne. And all this Night King business is just to whittle away the competition and make them the underdogs again.
I'm sure it is going to be amazing what they do next to wrap all this up, but I'm now feeling a bit uninterested. I definitely want to see the conclusion, but the resolution for what was interesting me is done. Kinda like after Frodo give Gollum the finger at Mount Doom and there is still another half of a book left. Let's hope it concludes as well as LOTR does.
Regardless, it was an amazing battle, and I didn't get battle fatigue at all. They built the tension well, especially at the beginning. It did often feel like "how would anybody survive through that battle," especially with Brienne and Jaime who I would imagine would have just simply run out of energy and fallen. But hey...it's not real, but it is also a bit lazy writing.

[Sorus]

I don't think Jaime will kill Cersei, but I do think they will die together. (Or they will kill each other.)

--A

Cersei isn't going to give up the throne without a big fight. She's already proved willing to use wildfire against the city - which Jaime killed Aerys to prevent way back when. Jaime also has the best chance of getting close enough to her - and you may be right that they will kill each other, but there's still Bronn with his crossbow and three (or more) possible outcomes there - either he kills Jaime (most likely), he kills Tyrion (I'm sticking with my Tyrion Lives theory) - or he does something more redeeming in nature. (Though I don't think he will be the one to kill Cersei - they'll keep it in the family.)

Also glad I wasn't the only one having trouble seeing - first time using HBO Now, and I thought my monitor was lacking something.

[DoctorGamgee]

Yeah, but ... Yeah but .... The whole three-eyed raven/night king thing was never explained!!! Why did the NK want Bran dead? Why did he want to do it personally? What was the point of the three-eyed raven at all? I feel like they are letting the loose ends go.

Not sure if Sam, Jaime, Brienne died. They look like they should have died.

Yeah, it wasn't spelled out explicitly. However, there is a lot to be inferred. We know that the Children created the Night King, to defeat the Men who were encroaching on their forests. Robbed of your human life by the magical infusion of Dragon Glass into your heart, robed of your humanity. He dosen't like the Children for doing this to him, and suddenly the Children realized that the monster they had created would turn on them as well. It was the Three-Eyed Raven who was protecting them and held untouchable. That is, until Bran was marked. And, from the drawings on Dragon Stone, we know that the Children had gone to their enemies (First Men) to join the battle against the Night King and his White Walkers, and that the Men (Brandon the Builder) had built the wall and imprisoned them northward by sorcery and brute strength (Crows).

I don't know about you, but if I were left century after century imprisoned and cut off from my enemies who had done this to me, by a man-made wall and spells of the Raven, that would have been motivation enough to give me a reason to go after the Three-Eyed Raven (who is now Bran), and against Winterfell (from where Brandon the Builder came). Combine that with the fact that he has Bran marked, and it was his colossal stupidity that got him marked in the first place, perhaps he thought that Bran would have been an easy target. Too new to know his power's full potential (as hinted at by his teacher), and give the Night King resolution for the centuries he was thwarted by the Von Sydow Raven. Strike while the Iron is hot (pardon the pun). Vanquish your enemies, turn them into your army, and bring the unending night.

But that's just my take. I too will see if R.R. will ever get the books written so we see what happens.

[Avatar]

Meh.

Wasn't all that impressed with the big battle. They made it dark and confusing so the effects didn't have to be on point, they didn't need big fight choreography, etc.

And killing the NK seemed too easy. It was sorta a bit deus ex, hopeless moment, everybody about to die, but kill the king and they all drop dead.

Also didn't really like how the Dothraki were just thrown away. Charging into the dark to be wasted. Seems tactically unsound, if nothing else.

...Jaime also has the best chance of getting close enough to her - and you may be right that they will kill each other...

Cersei "prophesied" long ago that as they were born together, they would die together.

--A

[I'm Murrin]

The thing I found most interesting was the behind the scenes bit with the creators, where it was made very clear that every element of this finale is invented by them, and not based on some plan from GRRM's outlines.

[dlbpharmd]

The thing I found most interesting was the behind the scenes bit with the creators, where it was made very clear that every element of this finale is invented by them, and not based on some plan from GRRM's outlines.

Right, the books are going to be completely different - assuming the series is ever finished, something I sincerely doubt.

I haven't enjoyed an episode of TV this much since Battlestar Galactica.

I get the complaints about the darkness, and I struggled a bit with that. I re-watched it last night on a different TV in a dark room, and it was better.

I'm OK with how the NK went down. It wasn't really easy - dragon fire couldn't kill him, and I doubt seriously that Jon Snow would have been able to take him. There has been so much foreshadowing about Arya, so I'm fine with it.