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Post by peter »

Hey Av! :wave:

Odd little story this one: I was listening to Classic FM the other day - Monday - in mid-afternoon, and on the hourly news bulletin they reported that "It was confirmed" (their words) that Boris Johnson and his wife had spent the weekend at Balmoral with the Queen. (Again their words) "No further details were released".

That was it. End of story.

There was no report of this on the evening news - BBC or Sky, as far as I'm aware, certainly it never featured in any of the main national newspapers (on the front pages at least, because I read them all every day).

Now forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that Boris and Carrie Johnson would be the Queen's chosen buddies for holing up for the weekend at Balmoral, and this certainly wasn't a regular thing that she does with every PM and their families, so I think that there was something odd about it. There were no reported visiting dignitaries that would have demanded his presence, though Balmoral is sufficiently large and remote that it is entirely possible that someone could slip in and out without being noticed (though clearly Boris and Carrie didn't manage it). There had been all of that stuff in the weekend press about Charles' aide swinging gongs for wealthy donors to the Prince's charities, but I shouldn't have thought that that would be regarded as sufficient of a constitutional crisis to demand that Boris have an extended pow-wow with the Queen in a remote and private location.

Perhaps the Queen is thinking about throwing in the towel and handing over to Charlie? That would be big enough a jolt to the system to demand a weekend of talking - but frankly I simply don't see her doing it. And then there's the Andrew situation - you know, talk of his being tried in absentia in the US for allegedly having sex with a minor. Could this have developed into something that could ramify in a majorly bad way for 'The Firm'? Or Harry and Meghan? Talk was in the press a week or so ago that they were going to name the senior royal (had to be Charles or William) that had enquired "any idea what colour the baby is likely to be" before the birth of Archie. It is pretty much assumed that whoever it was (if one of the two aforementioned), if their name came out, they could never assume to the throne, so that would be pretty big?

Could be any one of these things really - or indeed something completely different - but whatever it was (and I wonder if we'll ever know) it was something pretty significant; I'd bet my shirt on it!

:lol:
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Post by Avatar »

Yeah, I don't really see her stepping down. Poor old Charles...once touted as the hope of the British monarchy, he's going to end up taking the throne just in time to die himself thanks to dear old Mum's longevity. :D

(Although it's quite possible he may simply not want it any more, if he ever did.)

I do wonder if the monarchy is on its last legs these days. As for the "senior royal," my bet personally would be on it having been Phillip, so rather a moot point now anyway if so. :D

--A
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Post by peter »

Well, again pure speculation on my part, but I have a hunch that this morning's headlines give us a clue as to the possible - I repeat, possible - reason for Johnson's trip to Balmoral last weekend.

It transpires, from today's press, that after some attempts at evasive action and monkeying around, Prince Andrew has been served papers in respect of the accusations made against him, that allow for a hearing (at which he could presumably be obligated to attend) to proceed. The paperwork was actually given to a security guard at one of the royal households (which apparently counts) and news of this has found it's way into the papers.

Now this could be a big deal.

We have some kind of extradition agreement with the USA, and possibly (I'm guessing here) if someone is called to attend a hearing in the other country, but fails to attend, a request could be made to the police of the accused's country requesting an extradition of the individual. That this would be an embarrassment to our country, were it to occur, is an understatement. It would be a hugely difficult diplomatic incident between the US and UK, and could pit the Royal family against the police of this country if Andrew fails to cooperate. It would cause a massive headache for the Johnson administration in trying to navigate a way through it.

The Government would almost certainly be required to ask that Andrew submit himself to the requisite officials and travel to the US for arraignment, were such a request made - not to do so would be regarded as a failure of statecraft of the highest order, so it looks to me as if it might be the case that Andrew will have to comply with the papers and attend the hearing, in order to prevent this embarrassing situation from occurring.

This would almost certainly have required a major pow-wow between Johnson, the Queen, quite possibly the Lord Chancellor and the Prince's legal team in order to 'game' the possible scenarios that might be occurring in the near future, and consider the best course of action. Behind the scenes, the Royal family might be asking for some kind of assurance that Andrew will be let off the hook if he attends in America, before he agrees to do so. (So far the gen is that the Prince's lawyers are saying that the papers were not legally served.)

As I say, all totally speculative on my part, but it would seem to fit the bill. I'd be interested to hear any thoughts anybody else might have on this?

8O

(Re your Prince Phillip guess Av, I think the Sussex's have said it wasn't either the Queen or Prince Phillip already - that leaves only Charles or William in reality. I'd bet on Charles of the two, but who knows?)
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Post by peter »

Today's Telegraph tells us that Boris Johnson is going to "Rip Up Covid Restrictions"!" The PM is quoted as saying that like it or not, life must return to the (new) normal and that we will just have to learn to live with Covid, like it or not.

Now if I were a cynical man, I might be tempted to think that the reason he is suddenly coming out as a champion of freedom is that he has suffered such a battering over his social care funding policy (both inside parliament and at the grassroots constituency level), that he is desperately trying to ingratiate himself with his MPs, who are known to be unhappy with the ongoing Covid restrictions and suggestions of vaccination passports and the like (which have, of a sudden, been dropped after we were told by two Ministers that they were definitely coming in).

Not that our honourable PM would ever play politics with something so life-affectingly serious as how best to deal with the ongoing coronavirus threat - no he would never do that now would be? He'll simply be 'following the science'.
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
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Post by peter »

The day after the announcement of Johnson's intention to do his "ripping up", we were told by exactly the same papers that he was to announce his winter Covid plan which would save the NHS from becoming overwhelmed in the face of rising Covid hospitalisations and winter flu cases. These plans we were told, would include all measures that could be used to control the virus and that "nothing was off the table".

Today we are back to ripping up the regulations with news of "summer holiday joy" for millions as Johnson prepares for a bonfire of the regulations pertaining to travel.

There is method in this continually swapping from the presentation of optimism to threat and pessimism, then back to optimism again. This continually presenting contradictory views keeps us disorientated and wrong-footed while things are done which we would never ordinarily tolerate. Like Government discussing the option of mandating vaccination, vaccination passports or allowing for the vaccination of our children without consent from their parents. It has the effect that we never know quite where we are in all of this, this collective madness that has swept our world, as we are thrown this way and that like peas in a whistle.

Like Neil Oliver in his recent GB News post, as this thing has progressed, I find it harder and harder not to succumb to the thought that our world is being deliberately and systematically dismantled before our eyes. Is this paranoia on my part? On Oliver's part? On the part of the millions of disorientated people who are struggling to comprehend what is happening? Certainly as the weeks and months progress I am encountering more and more people who are observing that the thing "no longer seems to make any sense". And let's face it - why would it? When your chief sources of information are so at odds, when your Government itself seems to have no clear direction of travel, when what is writ in stone today is like the idle wind which we regardeth not tomorrow, then how can things make any sense? We are ground down and fragmented, the natural coherent shape of our lives unmade and the structure upon which the form of our existence rested undermined. What is not as yet clear is what is going to be put in place to replace it. I have a feeling that we are not going to like it.
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

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Post by peter »

The French have a word for it (they would, wouldn't they ;) ). Douceur. In the dictionaries you'll find it defined as a bribe, a financial inducement, but in reality it's much more subtle than that. It refers to the system of little perks, the privileges, the luxuries, that grease the wheels of governance and diplomacy, and keep everyone in line and things running just tickety-bo.

Now we don't normally associate the arrival and departure of our Ministers of State with this system, but the connection is there. One of the journalists I saw talking about the recent reshuffle of the Cabinet refered to how quickly the trappings of high office dissapear once you no longer occupy the role. You arrive for your meeting in your chauffeur driven Daimler and go home on the bus. Suddenly your diary is empty - no-one wants to spring for your lunch in the best restaurants, the Minister's Bar in the HOC is closed to you, as is the executive toilet and you realise that organisation of your own life (as opposed to having someone else to do it for you) is a pain.

Now politicians are human with the same foibles as the rest of us, and in the enjoyment of these little perks of 'life at the top' they find life pretty conducive to them. Naturally they don't want to loose them and this fact influences them more than we often give credit for. As I say, these things not only make their often difficult job more tolerable - but they serve to keep them in line as well. It's not a big deal, but it doesn't do any harm to remember it now and again.

------------------------------------0-----------------------------

So the doctors are digging in and liking this business of doing ninety percent of their work from home over the telephone (some being paid a hundred quid an hour for it) and are resistant to actually going back to the surgery to see people face to face again. Well, no surprise there - I've yet to come across anyone who doesn't prefer their new arrangement in this department (in fact it is in large part why so many people have been in favour of the lockdown policy - that and furlough), but in the case of the doctors I'll make an exception.

Stay at home by all means.

It will simply speed up your passage into the dustbin of history as new and more efficient algorithms are developed to take over your role completely. We are way into the point where such box ticking jobs as a GP's can be done better and more effectively by AI and it is only the medical profession's own pecuniary interest that is holding this back.

Time to rethink our relationship with the doctor, with the front line provision of service: do away with the personal GP and only go to see a random doctor for a physical examination if the algorithm decides it is necessary. This would be done in specific centers attached to the hospitals in each area and GP surgeries would be a thing of the past - and good riddance.
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

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Post by peter »

:lol: You gotta love the French.

They have managed to insult us by not recalling their ambassador (as they have done from their US and Australian embassies) over the trilateral US/UK/Australian nuclear subs deal. The deal, which has pissed the French off big time - either because it has usurped an earlier deal between Oz and themselves, costing them billions in lost revenue, or because it is "not the way you treat allies"... take your pick - has provoked this response against the two mentioned, but not against the UK.

When questioned about this, their response was dismissive: the UK were not really the key players in this, the "fifth wheel on the wagon" they explained. "Besides, we are used to their perfidious and self-serving nature of old. We would expect no different from them." As clear a way of saying that we no longer merit much attention, that we are insignificant, as you could get!

:clap:


But as an interesting aside from this, while much is made of the 'special relationship' between the US and UK, and most people assuming that because of the common language we share and the origins of the first settlers, that the relationship between the two countries is almost that of parent and offspring, in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

The reality is that it is the French and the USA that share a much more common heritage (if that's right word), because it was in the US and France that the 'modern world' was born. Both countries came into being as a result of revolution, both turned their backs on the 'old power' far more completely than elsewhere and in both for the first time, egalitarian principles won the order of the day against the cronyism of entrenched power structures. It was only with French help that the forces of Washington were able to win the day and defeat the British and it does not go to far to say that without the French there would be no United States of America today.

All the more surprising then that the US should forget these old and long-standing obligations to our Gallic neighbors and effectively cut the legs out from under them in this way. The USA has always been a ruthless business player and certainly they want to send the Chinese a message in the formation of this tripartite alliance, but the ex French ambassador said on TV yesterday that the first his country learned of the new arrangement was on the television. This, he said, was not how one treats a partner - and perhaps he has a point.
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

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Post by peter »

Who'd have believed it? If anyone would have told you that less than two years after Boris Johnson's landslide victory in December 2019 election, barely nine months after leaving the transition period of our exit from the EU we'd be facing a situation where food shortages of significant degree were becoming a very real possibility, where gaps on supermarket shelves were commonplace and worsening by the day you'd have said they were nuts! Yet this is the case. And further, we face the prospect of going into winter with a looming energy supply crisis which harbours the possibility that millions of vulnerable people will not be able to heat their homes, either because they won't be able to meet the spiraling costs of doing so, or because the gas required to do so simply won't be there. The Government are considering the possibility of imposing a three day working week on industry, there is crisis in the supply of labour to do the jobs that are screaming out to be done and the harvest is threatening to rot in the fields for lack of workers to bring it in.

We have the almost surreal situation, such is our topsy-turvey landscape, that the falling unemployment that the figures show is a bad thing. Do you get that? It's almost impossible to get your head around but here's how it works. Falling unemployment is only good it is accompanied by falling job vacancies as people move into the available jobs. In our case however, we have falling unemployment accompanied by rising job vacancies - and that is indicative of something deeply amiss.

Furthermore, if someone had told you, as you celebrated Boris Johnson's creaming of Jeremy Corbyn, that within eighteen months he'd be borrowing and spending money at levels that would make Corbyn look like the architect of austerity, George Osborne, you'd have laughed in their face. But here we are with the economy in tatters, with the highest borrowing since the year dot and the spectre of inflation growing at a faster rate than it has in decades. And to cap it all we've seen a massive incursion of the state into our lives, we are ordered this way and that as those above us deem necessary and authoritarianism is at levels unthought of in any time in our history. And all of this under the Conservative Right that led us into Brexit.

Maybe I'm thinking, "project fear" - the derisory chant of the Leave Campaign at the Remain when they pointed out the risks of our leaving the EU - is turning out not to have been project fear after all?
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

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Post by peter »

Is it any wonder that the petrol stations were flooded with drivers seeking to fill up their cars after the Government's Corporal Jones like cries of "Don't panic, don't panic!" filling the airwaves for the past twenty four hours?

Thrown into a seeming disarray over the increasingly acute problems faced by the petrol delivery supply chain, evidenced by two of the major companies, Shell and Esso, having to close some of their forecourts, the Government response was to throw fuel onto the fire (sorry about that ;) ) by announcing that people should not use the petrol stations any more than they usually do - a request that of course, people immediately ignored. Better they had said nothing, just got on with fixing the issue instead.

As it was, after an emergency meeting yesterday afternoon, they came up with the brilliant suggestion that what was needed was to issue temporary visas to HGV drivers from the continent to make up the shortfall in numbers of our own. Yes - you have it; that would be the same drivers that they threw out of the country but a few months ago when the time limit for application for working permits elapsed, causing them to all bugger of home. The only problem with this idea is that there is no guarantee that there will be sufficient drivers from EU countries that will be available, or even want, to come back to the UK. Plan B is therefore to utilize drivers from the armed forces to make deliveries where the needs are most urgent.

All in all the whole thing is a total shambles - and one that was both completely predictable and avoidable with a small amount of forethought and forward planning. Clearly in the Government's rush to 'get brexit done', they gave no thought to the impact that pulling a significant proportion of the workforce from areas where high numbers of foreign workers were employed would have. So now we have delivery problems in virtually every business where road haulage is a crucial part of the supply chain, we have massive shortfalls of workers in the care and hospitality sectors, and huge problems in those areas of agribusiness where harvesting is dependent upon itinerant seasonal labour.

So far from 'taking back control', we find ourselves having to make panic driven slap-dash rulings on the hoof in order to stave off potential disaster. Global Britain! Open for Business! This lot couldn't organise the proverbial piss-up in a brewery!

(Which brings me nicely into the following: permit me a bit of schadenfreude at the news of the problems that labour shortages and beer delivery shortfalls are causing the pub-chain Witherspoon's. Founder Tim Martin was one of the most vocal and high profile Brexiteers from the business community during the referendum campaign and I feel no guilt at taking pleasure from seeing him hoist on his own petard!)
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

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Post by I'm Murrin »

The first sign I've seen so far of the food shortages we're hearing about is that all the local Greggs have been out of stock of Sausage, Bean & Cheese Melts for the past week or so. Hoping that's as much as I see of it but of course expecting things are going to get worse.
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Post by peter »

It's not so much a case of shortages as gaps on shelves reflecting a reduction in choice. There are shortages in specific areas of the country and in specific types of food (yesterday for example, the Co-op chillers were empty in my town due to the failure of the chilled food delivery company that supplies them), but much of the supply chain works on a 'just in time' basis (by necessity due to the huge turn over required to keep near seventy million mouths filled) and this is under intense strain.

In my own store, chilled and bread deliveries have become much more unreliable, as has the certainty that what you order on any given day (in terms of specific items) will actually arrive the following. Often you find replacement items instead of the ones you have actually ordered, or indeed no product at all. On other occasions you will get a smaller quantity than you ordered. Today we are opening a store with no bread, when ordinarily our delivery would last well into Monday morning.

So indeed the term 'shortages' is used in a relative sense at present, but it would/will not take much more for it to move into the actual. The Government issuing of five thousand temporary visas is but a sticking plaster over a gaping wound; they are going to have to do better than that in order to get through this without there being major discontent.

Meanwhile............

Anyone who believes in the supremacy of our adversarial form of politics will have held their head in their hands yesterday as Sir Kier Stamer drove yet another nail into the coffin of the Labour Party by attempting to impose a controversial change to the leadership election process right at the start of their conference week...... and failing.

This will be absolute manna from heaven to the Tories who are so exposed at present that even a half competent opposition could spear them in their soft underbelly as they twist and turn in the tangle of problems they have woven for themselves. But it is not to be: instead we have idiot Stamer lighting the blue touch paper of self-destruction of his own Party by attempting to reverse the 'one member, one vote' policy of leadership election in favour of a system where parliamentary MPs have an increased say. All this is reflective of an internal war within the Party, with the right and left wings now virtually estranged to the point where a splitting is almost inevitable.

The only beneficiary of Stamer's screw-up of the last twenty four hours is the smug Angela Rayner (deputy leader) who has already made her intentions to play for the Leadership plain. She will be more than happy to have seen the dogs-ear that Stamer has made of it, despite her simultaneously being angry that media attention was drawn away from her own podium speech in which she intended to put forward a raft of economic policies for Labour to follow going forward.

But it goes without saying that the week ahead is likely to be a seminal one for both Stamer and the Party. The mood on the conference room floor is by all accounts tense and there is no guarantee - or indeed evidence - that Stamer has the political heft to take the unruly mob and pull them under his belt. It is unlikely that Rayner would fare any better: she is tainted with her own obvious ambition and no leader sitting above her would be safe from the dagger in the back which she wielded so effectively against first Jeremy Corbyn and now (if more subtly) against Stamer himself. She is (for all her pretence to be otherwise) a right-winger and will not in any sense satisfy the young left of the Party despite being the first female leader (were she to make it).

No, I'm afraid it is hard to see any future for the Labour Party in British politics other than as just another failed party ala the liberal democrats. Which means that we in effect, sit within a one party state headed by the most morally bankrupt and low grade collection of blackguards and sycophants that the history books have recorded, while simultaneously we go into the almost perfect storm of political and economic and environmental crises that we have known as a nation in our entire history. Woe is us!
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

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....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
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Post by peter »

The question is, should a political party be prepared to sacrifice everything it was founded to stand for in the pursuit of winning political power; or should it stick rigidly to its founding principles, even if doing so makes it virtually unelectable in the pertaining political climate in which it operates?

I refer of course to the dilemma that faces the Labour Party as it goes into its current annual conference week amid a storm of controversy and animosity over leader Kier Stamer's failed (in part at least) attempt to prevent the left wing of the party from fielding candidates in future leadership elections. There will be those who take the pragmatic approach that there is little to no point in putting together ideas for how Government, the country and our society should function if you don't stand a cat in hell's chance of getting into the place where you can see them put into practice: and those who will say that it is the purity of the idea that is the important thing and that the moment you start to accept concessions or compromises in order to simply secure power is the moment that you sound the death knell of your vision. From this moment on you will compromise more and more until you become little more than a watered down version of what is already in place.

This is the criticism that is levelled against Stamer - and not without justification - that his version of what a Labour Government would be is simply a 'Tory-lite' version of what we already have. This, they say, is why the establishment are prepared to accept him - because he represents no threat to the established order, has no real intention to wrest power away from the interests where it currently lies and place it into the hands of the working people. If there must be an alternative to their own party, the party that represents their interests (and there must be in order for us to be able to present the illusion of being a democratic nation to the rest of the world), then let it be an alternative that 'passes muster' in terms of establishment interest. Let it not be radical to the degree where the existing status-quo threatened.

And Stamer certainly fits this brief. He is effectively (his critics say) the representative of the elite, the acceptable face of socialism, the fifth columnist in the establishment take over of the party that came into power with a specific purpose of representing the interests of the common man in the face of an establishment that benefits in inverse proportion to his degree of well-being. Herein lies the reason why Jeremy Corbyn could never be allowed to remain as Party Leader, why the left of the Party must be for ever excluded from holding the reins of power: because the moment they take them up, the possibility of real change emerges, the possibility that the purpose that the party was founded for might be realised, the established order of vested interest and unequal benefit might be threatened..........And that can never be allowed to happen!


None of which answers the original question.


My opinion, for what it is worth, is that you compromise your position at your peril. Tony Blair did this with his New Labour project and yes, it carried him to power - but where are we now? I believe that the existing hierarchy is its own worst enemy; even in the face of an apparent impossibility of achieving electoral success, the greater the inequality grows the faster the beneficiaries living in their gilded cages hasten their own demise. Support for the true Labour project must be built from the ground up, not by making concessions to the existing power structures; when the time is ripe that support will flower and find its true voice. Stamer's way is not the true Labour way and what he has tried to do in the last few days shows that he knows it. Labour must be the broad church that he promised to make it in his leadership campaign or it is nothing.
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

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Post by peter »

Yesterday we had ex Tory leader and arch brexiteer Sir Ian Duncan Smith yelling from the front of the Express "Stop blaming the fuel delivery crisis on Brexit!", and today the Guardian tells us (in obvious direct response) that the likely replacement of Angela Merkel, Olaf Schultz says"Brexit to blame for UK fuel crisis".

All you can say in both the cases of the papers and the commentators they quote, is - well, they would, wouldn't they. In all cases their own partisan opinions colour what they see and the message they subsequently put out. And of course in their own particular ways both are partially correct. The pandemic has taken out a significant number from the bank of available drivers - so has brexit. The pandemic has slowed the training and testing of new drivers to a trickle. Post brexit immigration regulations (in combination with Home Secretary Priti Patel's inadequacy in her role) has made it nigh on impossible for continental drivers to step in to make up the shortfall. The pandemic nobody could do anything about; Brexit, as the likely future Chancellor of Germany points out, we brought upon ourselves.

Meanwhile, Patel's lap-dog Grant Shapps, the hapless Transport Minister left to pick up the pieces of this shambles keeps reiterating the same message (like it actually means anything if the petrol guage in your car is reading nearly empty); "We've got loads of fuel - buckets of the stuff! Just no drivers to deliver it.", he tells us over and over. Well what the frick difference does it make if you can't get to work because your car is empty you idiot? It's like telling a starving man in Ethiopia that there's loads of food in London and expecting him to be reassured by it. Yesterday a guy on the evening news said casually after a bit of thought that it would all be okay - by early into next year we'd have made up the shortfall and be back to normal. Twat!

And thinking about it, it is genuinely difficult to think that the Government cannot have seen this coming, but were simply too stubborn in their determination not to be seen to be having to reverse their post-brexit immigration/work visa policy to actually take the necessary steps to avoid it. They may have just simply underestimated the scale of the problems that would arise, and thinking that we would 'rub along through it' decided to do nothing, take no mitigating steps and let the chips fall where they would. Now as the situation nears breaking point with mile long queues for virtually no petrol and the supermarket chillers near empty as well, they have been forced into a panicked reaction that simply makes them look bad and ill-prepared on all fronts. Were it not for the fact that the Opposition are too busy ripping themselves to shreds, they (the Government) would be being spit-roasted from every side as they absolutely deserve.

There's a game called Jenga - you may have heard of it. It comprises of pulling individual rectangular blocks out of a tower of the same, carefully one by one in turn, until at last, someone pulls the final one out - and of a sudden the whole edifice collapses. I liken our society to just such an edifice. Infinitely more complex, more interactive and interconnected perhaps, but nevertheless comprising an internal structure that will bear so many pieces to be pulled away while it still holds - but only so many. Take fuel out of people's cars and food off their table's and you are pulling handfuls of those blocks out at a time. The Government in its complacent presumption that it would all be okay, that we'd simply weather any difficulty through, were quite possibly making a very serious mistake and I think they are panicking. Those soldiers in the tankers will be there to send a deeper message than the fact that there might be a bit of fuel available at the pumps.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

An additional component to the "Brexit did it" side is something called cabotage - this is the system where a delivery driver taking a shipment from X to Y can then pick up a new shipment at Y and deliver it to Z, then get a third to take from Z to X. This system is what makes haulage efficient and profitable - and drivers from the EU are no longer allowed to do this within the UK. Even with the new visas being issued to European drivers, they will only be permitted into the country to deliver a single shipment in and out, and from what I've read they cannot bring one trailer into the UK then leave pulling a different one; which altogether makes the endeavour not worth undertaking when they could continue to operate with cabotage in EU countries instead.
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Post by SleeplessOne »

peter wrote:The question is, should a political party be prepared to sacrifice everything it was founded to stand for in the pursuit of winning political power; or should it stick rigidly to its founding principles, even if doing so makes it virtually unelectable in the pertaining political climate in which it operates?

I refer of course to the dilemma that faces the Labour Party as it goes into its current annual conference week amid a storm of controversy and animosity over leader Kier Stamer's failed (in part at least) attempt to prevent the left wing of the party from fielding candidates in future leadership elections. There will be those who take the pragmatic approach that there is little to no point in putting together ideas for how Government, the country and our society should function if you don't stand a cat in hell's chance of getting into the place where you can see them put into practice: and those who will say that it is the purity of the idea that is the important thing and that the moment you start to accept concessions or compromises in order to simply secure power is the moment that you sound the death knell of your vision. From this moment on you will compromise more and more until you become little more than a watered down version of what is already in place.

This is the criticism that is levelled against Stamer - and not without justification - that his version of what a Labour Government would be is simply a 'Tory-lite' version of what we already have. This, they say, is why the establishment are prepared to accept him - because he represents no threat to the established order, has no real intention to wrest power away from the interests where it currently lies and place it into the hands of the working people. If there must be an alternative to their own party, the party that represents their interests (and there must be in order for us to be able to present the illusion of being a democratic nation to the rest of the world), then let it be an alternative that 'passes muster' in terms of establishment interest. Let it not be radical to the degree where the existing status-quo threatened.

And Stamer certainly fits this brief. He is effectively (his critics say) the representative of the elite, the acceptable face of socialism, the fifth columnist in the establishment take over of the party that came into power with a specific purpose of representing the interests of the common man in the face of an establishment that benefits in inverse proportion to his degree of well-being. Herein lies the reason why Jeremy Corbyn could never be allowed to remain as Party Leader, why the left of the Party must be for ever excluded from holding the reins of power: because the moment they take them up, the possibility of real change emerges, the possibility that the purpose that the party was founded for might be realised, the established order of vested interest and unequal benefit might be threatened..........And that can never be allowed to happen!


None of which answers the original question.


My opinion, for what it is worth, is that you compromise your position at your peril. Tony Blair did this with his New Labour project and yes, it carried him to power - but where are we now? I believe that the existing hierarchy is its own worst enemy; even in the face of an apparent impossibility of achieving electoral success, the greater the inequality grows the faster the beneficiaries living in their gilded cages hasten their own demise. Support for the true Labour project must be built from the ground up, not by making concessions to the existing power structures; when the time is ripe that support will flower and find its true voice. Stamer's way is not the true Labour way and what he has tried to do in the last few days shows that he knows it. Labour must be the broad church that he promised to make it in his leadership campaign or it is nothing.
Enjoyed this post.
Agree with your position on the perils of political parties pursuing power ahead of promoting their prime principles; i.e. power for power's sake.

I don't follow UK politics too closely but it sounds as though our respective country's Labo(u)r parties are failing in a very similar way; the Liberal/National coalition down here (which you probably know is roughly analogous to the Tories) is an absolute shambles; horrifically bad.
Scott Morrison, the PM himself, is a pretty slick operator, I will give him that - the smug twat has basically held the LNP together single-handedly, with many of his colleagues seemingly determined to crash the gravy-train in any number of distasteful ways.

The LNP has a historical reputation for being good with the public purse, yet this current Govt has been hugely wasteful through a poorly designed mechanism that allowed big business to exploit the 'jobkeeper' scheme to the tune of $285m during the height of the pandemic.

It's stance of Climate Change is archaic and surely one of the most science-averse in the developed world.

On an individual level characters like Christian Porter and Barnaby Joyce (the deputy PM for God's sake!) constantly force Morrison into damage control through their myriad bad choices.

Yet at a time when Labor might offer the Australian public a genuine alternative of any kind, we are instead being sold a pale rendering of the party it once was.
I listen to opposition leader Anthony Albanese, but I can barely hear him.
He has none of Morrison's forcefulness or guile.
Worse than a un-charismatic leader though is that Labor barely differs from the LNP on the type of emotive policy that might inspire change in the (perhaps mythical) younger voting age bracket.

The status quo will no doubt prevail at next year's election, a part of me thinks it will barely matter either way.
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Post by peter »

A case of "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always wins" by the sound of it. ;)

Indeed SleeplessOne - there does seem to be parallels in our situation. In our adversarial systems the public is best served by a Government with a workable (but not too large) majority and a good strong opposition. Once this desirable state of affairs gets out of kilter the failings of the system begin to manifest pretty quickly. Our own PM, similarly to yours is constantly dealing with the screw-ups of his own team, is both weak but crafty in equal measure and is only continuing in the thinly veiled chaos he is managing by virtue of the lack of any credible opposition to hold up a mirror to his failure.

I was listening to one of the older Labour 'grandees' talking the other day and he was of a different quality altogether; listening to him made you realise what thin gruel indeed we are supping on in respect of the current crop of Labour MPs.

Our 'crisis of the day' in respect of the chaos at the fuel pumps - and Murrin raises a key failure that Johnson has failed to identify in his 'temporary visa' scheme - is in large part down to a failure of the Home Secretary to relax immigration/visa requirements much earlier, before the situation rose to a head. Johnson himself has now had to impose his will over hers in order to show some activity toward 'sorting the crisis'. That his actions won't, for the reason Murrin identifies, will become apparent in short order at which point the fact that what we are seeing today is simply a single manifestation of a much more deeper problem will become undeniable.
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
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'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

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Post by Avatar »

peter wrote:...it does not go to far to say that without the French there would be no United States of America today.
Yes, unfortunately "Lafayette, we will never forget" turned out not to be true at all. That said, I sorta thought the major break came when France opposed the invasion of Iraq?
peter wrote:A case of "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always wins" by the sound of it. ;)
My eternal plaint against democracy really. :D

I must (unsurprisingly) admit to sharing your schadenfreude over the Brexit / labour thing. I mean, all you had to do was walk into a pub, hotel or hospital any time in the last 20-odd years to know that the majority of so-called "menial" labour (not that there is actually any such thing) in the UK was done by foreigners in search of the mighty Pound Sterling.

Did they think the Brits would suddenly leap on the opportunity to take low paying jobs with terrible hours once they kicked Johnny Foreigner out?

And as Murrin alluded to, temporary visa's for HGV drivers is all very well, but it kinda relies on the drivers wanting to take the jobs, and apparently Europe has plenty of vacancies for them. (Not to mention the requirement that they effectively go home empty, making it essentially many one-way (profit) trips. )

Trade has always revolved around the principle of taking difficult to source items from places where they are available, and returning with things that are available there, but difficult to source at home.

Very many boats, points, and prevailing conditions have been missed in this whole debacle, that's for sure. :D

I'm glad to see that even "developed" countries are capable of this level of mismanagement. ;)

--A
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Post by peter »

So Kier Stamer has had his big moment at the annual Labour Party Conference and fair to say, his speech was pretty well received.

He did not have it all his own way however - there was a significant degree of heckling from the crowd with many holding up red cards to indicate their support for the left-wing of the party which Stamer has attempted to weaken. He made a slighting reference to the Corbyn leadership (without actually naming him), but indicated his intended direction of travel for the party by listing the achievements of the Blair Government, to the rapturous applause of the audience.

For me however, this was a bit pointless; this was the work of another manifestation of the party - not his: these were the achievements of a decade ago, not now. For all the length, breadth and high ambition of the speech, for me it contained very little depth. Stamer is going to make schools better, be tough on crime, be really green in his policy making, be really sensitive to the problem of mental health......... etc, etc, etc. Well, no surprise there, but not a mention of how all of this is to be done. Corbyn for all his faults, in his speech made it clear; taxes were going to be levied in order to pay for his plans. His ambition (Corbyn's), his vision was also much more inspiring; I remember at the end of his speech when he said, "I promise one thing - a Jeremy Corbyn Government will be very different from the Government you are experiencing today", I believed him. In the case of a Stamer Government I'm not sure that the same promise can be made at all.
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

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Post by I'm Murrin »

I admit to being a little baffled by Starmer's latest moves. Where did all this law and order, more police, more surveillance stuff come from, why is it suddenly the focus of his policies? He must have some sort of internal research saying this is what will get people to support him but I don't see why. "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" they say and yet they're proposing more policing, not reduced poverty.
It seems like all the actual policies we're hearing outside of that are just very small improvements that do nothing to address fundamental problems. Hire more people and provide more funding... but don't change anything.
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Post by peter »

Couldn't agree more Murrin. There is no milage in just dumping more police onto the problem if you are not going to simultaneously address the causes of crime and antisocial behaviour which are multifarious and complex.

Similarly with education, the ending of the charitable status of private schools might be a good sound bite in front of the conference audience, but how much of a real policy it represents in respect of dealing with the (reportedly) profound problems of our education system is questionable. Certainly some funding could be raised, but the byproduct of the move would be that many of the smaller, lower profile independent schools would no longer be able to continue and would either have to close or be driven into insolvency.

I'm no expert on the failings or otherwise of the education system as it stands, but it seems to me that some of the chief problems are that teachers and overburdened with ..... no - overburdened point blank, and have no motivation to stay in their chosen careers. Secondly it seems that the system is starved of the resources it needs in order to both get the pupil-teacher ratios to a level where individuals can be picked out and given the one-to-one time that is required if they are falling behind, and to make the learning experience one of engagement rather than being a simple chore. Thirdly - and this problem is not new, simply exacerbated given the increasing rate of change of our modern world - our education system seems to focus on educating kids to the requirements of the world of today rather than the world that they will be required to live and work in tomorrow. Not easy to solve this last dilemma, but this is no reason for it to be ignored.

Oddly, I look back to the system that pertained in my own day - of a mix of grammar, comprehensive and independent schools, of the GCE/CSE mix of examinations (and eleven plus) together with a top-notch apprenticeship program that gave many of my friends careers for life (and careers that ultimately paid them very good money) - and I can't see very much wrong with it. Was it so bad that we needed to pull it to pieces and replace it with - this, which really doesn't seem to be making anybody very happy or serving our kids very well at all?

But back to Stamer - he seems to have had little to say on this aspect of the perennial problems of education of our youth (though in fairness I missed this bit of his speech because I was making my lunch), and aside from a bit of 'bashing the rich' doesn't appear to have much in the way of inspiration as to how to tackle the core issues.

This overall thinness in respect of substance might get him past the post in front of a mainly partisan crowd anxious to support their (already failing) man, but will it cut it in the real down in the dirt world of a general election campaign. I have my doubts.

There was however one point where very briefly Stamer hit the spot - and BBC commentator Nicholas Witchell picked up on this in his comments after the speech - when he used the phrase "Make Brexit Work". This is a solid counterpoint to Johnson's Get Brexit Done, and strikes at the very heart of this administrations failings since our leaving of the EU. If he can build a campaign around this slogan with a set of solid proposals for setting some of the most egregious failings of the current Government to rights then he might just pull it off. It's a small chance, but if any of his top bods can take hold of this and run with it, then it might just be possible to pull back enough disillusioned voters (particularly from the red-wall seats of the North lost to the Conservative Party in the last election) to make his goal of securing power become a reality.
President of Peace? You fucking idiots!

"I know what America is. America is a thing that you can move very easily. Move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." (Benjamin Netenyahu 2001.)

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard
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