What good have humans done?

[ZefaLefeLaH]

Zef - Avatar is right. I did not say that I personally do not perceive any act as 'right' or 'wrong' - I stated that no act is inherently so. Acts only have the value we assign them. I doubt the rest of reality is concerned about what we do to each other.

OIC, well, it may be my reality, but that doesn't make me exempt from mistakes.

[danlo]

[Avatar]

...Both these actions are either sponsored by the state, or sanctioned by our churches. This IMHO, eliminates EVIL from the equation. This is of course another topic.

Eliminates "Evil" from whose equation? The people who are carrying out these state/church sanctioned murders? The church/state themselves? Or the victims of these "sanctions"?

You seem to be implying that governments and churches are not capable of commiting "evil" acts.

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[A Gunslinger]

...Both these actions are either sponsored by the state, or sanctioned by our churches. This IMHO, eliminates EVIL from the equation. This is of course another topic.

Eliminates "Evil" from whose equation? The people who are carrying out these state/church sanctioned murders? The church/state themselves? Or the victims of these "sanctions"?

You seem to be implying that governments and churches are not capable of commiting "evil" acts.

--Avatar

Not really. Governments especially are capable of large scale evil. It is a question of degrees, however.

My example was one of personal evil. I am saying that the executioner of a state-sponsored execution is not evil. The soldier who kills an enemy is not evil. The man who destroys the lives of people who look to him for support and life-giving resources...that is evil as it is his choice to actively persue his deeds.


Nazi Germany overall has been considered evil over the years...but was every soldier evil? Nah. Was Dr. Mengele? Hilter? IMHO you better believe it.

THE US has done evil as well, both militarily and are currently pusuing it in some proposed domestic policy, IMHO of course.

[Avatar]

My example was one of personal evil. I am saying that the executioner of a state-sponsored execution is not evil. The soldier who kills an enemy is not evil. The man who destroys the lives of people who look to him for support and life-giving resources...that is evil as it is his choice to actively persue his deeds.

Fair enough, I just wasn't sure exactly what you meant.

I agree that the state executioner is not evil in and of himself, and nor is that soldier. However, this opens the question of personal responsibility. Does carrying out an "evil" order lessen the responsibility of the person who does so? "Just following orders" has been an acceptable reason/excuse in the past, but does that make it right?

In my ideal world, each individual is responsible for his actions, regardless of whether he was ordered to carry them out. Surely it is our duty to refuse unjust orders?

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[Iryssa]

Surely it is our duty to refuse unjust orders?

I would definitely agree with you there...ummm...I had another point to make in agreement, but it just fled my mind...*sheepish laugh* I think it went to bed, where I should be.

[Avatar]

Sleep well.
--Avatar