Gart: The High King's Monomach *spoilers*
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Gart: The High King's Monomach *spoilers*
Did anyone else love this guy as much as me?!
He was so cool... had so much style... He was as smooth as silk... the best fighter in Mordant...
Though I always thought that Artagel had a point when it came to Gart... Why didn't he ever try to take over? It's weird... you'd think that someone in his position... the badness of him, would try and get power, and could have done so, I'll wager.
I also like how he fought excellent... Although I'm upset that he killed Lebbick
He was so cool... had so much style... He was as smooth as silk... the best fighter in Mordant...
Though I always thought that Artagel had a point when it came to Gart... Why didn't he ever try to take over? It's weird... you'd think that someone in his position... the badness of him, would try and get power, and could have done so, I'll wager.
I also like how he fought excellent... Although I'm upset that he killed Lebbick
Gart was a sad character. Nothing but a slave to Margonal.
A slave is a slave no matter what his labours are, when Artagel asked him why he didn't try to take power he said 'I am what I am'. A slave, that's all he was.
A slave is a slave no matter what his labours are, when Artagel asked him why he didn't try to take power he said 'I am what I am'. A slave, that's all he was.
[spoiler]If you change the font to white within spoiler tags does it break them?[/spoiler]
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I think the reason that Gart was so powerful and the reason that he would never try to take over come from the same source. His power came from his slavery to Marginol.
You can't be mindlessly devoted to any one discipline as Gart was without being, well, mindless. If Gart really had the free will that Artagal had, he wouldn't be so frightening and powerful.
You can't be mindlessly devoted to any one discipline as Gart was without being, well, mindless. If Gart really had the free will that Artagal had, he wouldn't be so frightening and powerful.
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I sort of have to chip in to this topic!
My feeling about Gart is that he's effectively a walking sword. His total focus is on swordsmanship and service (to Cadwal). I seem to remember a quote somewhere about how rigorous the training is for the Monomach's Apts...perhaps that conditioning eliminates any extraneous desires.
This is slightly cross-threading but as a thought, it's almost like Gart is an evil Haruchai...they can have the same extreme commitment to service, and do have a similar skill in combat, albeit weaponless.
My feeling about Gart is that he's effectively a walking sword. His total focus is on swordsmanship and service (to Cadwal). I seem to remember a quote somewhere about how rigorous the training is for the Monomach's Apts...perhaps that conditioning eliminates any extraneous desires.
This is slightly cross-threading but as a thought, it's almost like Gart is an evil Haruchai...they can have the same extreme commitment to service, and do have a similar skill in combat, albeit weaponless.
...but in the morning, I will be sober
Remember what Gart says to Artagel during their final battle--
That's all Gart needs to satisfy him. The training of the Apts of the HIgh King Monomach obviously involve teaching them (presumably at a young age) to love blood. To love the sight of it, to enjoy discovering where it hides in the human body, learning to release it. It has to be some kind of sense-training, some kind of learned sadism. There's gotta be some Pavlovian experimentation going on there. Imagine dreaming of blood, and enjoying it.I dream of blood.
Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
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Definitely one of my favourite characters in MN. I too would have loved to have seen more detail on the training that the Apts had to undergo.
I'd have to agree with Gart that the training is comparable to "brain-washing" and that it reduces the "sense of self" and replaces it with ideals of duty, however misguided they may or may not be.
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I'd have to agree with Gart that the training is comparable to "brain-washing" and that it reduces the "sense of self" and replaces it with ideals of duty, however misguided they may or may not be.
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In a sense I agree, (The Killing Stroke being one of my all-time favourites).
Doubtless though, the Apts training replaced the philosophical values of the various disciplines in The Killing Stroke with something much more "real" i.e. wealth, power, a sadistic blood-lust etc. (Although what power the Apts, or the Monomach himself had really, is up for debate.)
--Avatar
Doubtless though, the Apts training replaced the philosophical values of the various disciplines in The Killing Stroke with something much more "real" i.e. wealth, power, a sadistic blood-lust etc. (Although what power the Apts, or the Monomach himself had really, is up for debate.)
--Avatar
As for what power the Apts & the Monomach have......I don't know where I heard it, but I feel like I've heard it often enough that it's pretty axiomatic by now...Avatar wrote:In a sense I agree, (The Killing Stroke being one of my all-time favourites).
Doubtless though, the Apts training replaced the philosophical values of the various disciplines in The Killing Stroke with something much more "real" i.e. wealth, power, a sadistic blood-lust etc. (Although what power the Apts, or the Monomach himself had really, is up for debate.)
--Avatar
In combat, the person who fights the best is the one who's least afraid of dying--not which is most confident that he'll win, but who cares least if he loses. Maybe the Monomach's power, if it can be called that, stems from this source. He's trained to fight and win, or lose and die. There are no other options. His "power" comes from the fact that he fears nothing. The Apts, still in training, haven't had the fear broken from them yet, making them more vulnerable.
Just a thought. Tear it up as you will.
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No no, I agree with you completely, but I, and whoever else mentioned it, wasn't talking about the power the held in terms of combat, but in terms of political/social/whatever power.
On thinking about it though, you're probably right in the sense that the power you mention was all the power that they'd been taught to desire and use.
An excellent analysis in my opinion.
--Avatar
On thinking about it though, you're probably right in the sense that the power you mention was all the power that they'd been taught to desire and use.
An excellent analysis in my opinion.
--Avatar
Sorry 'bout that! I wonder if what Nathan (& the Dreaming I think) said about Gart being a slave is true. Was he a slave, or was he a weapon? The difference, as I see it, is that a slave is still a person--and may or may not agree with his/her master's commands, but have to follow them anyway. A weapon can neither agree nor disagree--it simply is. Weapons don't have political power any more than slaves do, but in some cases (i.e., might-makes-right situations) weapons are power.Avatar wrote:No no, I agree with you completely, but I, and whoever else mentioned it, wasn't talking about the power the held in terms of combat, but in terms of political/social/whatever power.
In other words, Gart doesn't really need power, because he is Power.
[And as an aside-- the idea that Gart is a tool makes for an interesting thematic intersection with the Chrons, where TC is constantly fighting against being made into a tool by the Despiser.]
Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
I agree. Humans are flexible, their perceptions alter with changes in their circumstances, they can multitask much more reliably than machines. They are definitely superior weapons.
Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
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hm, a lot of people referring to G as a servant of Margonal; but he served Festten
anyway, good character
anyway, good character
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I think Gart's power came from his family, like his father Gomer's did before him. The Simpson family was a powerful family, indeed.
Dandelion don't tell no lies
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion
I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.
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Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion
I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.
High priest of THOOOTP
*
* This post carries Jay's seal of approval
- PageLeafer
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Gart was definitely my favorite character from these books. Gart was all that was mentioned before; power; a weapon. I think he had more going for him though. I don't think he was a slave. I think he was very honorable and loyal. I don't think it would have occured to him to betray Festen or Cadwal. Artagel tried to figure him out, and Gart responded it's who he was. He was really getting mad at Artagel, and I think that was because he didn't always like what he had to do, but he did it out of loyalty. He could justify the things he did, but Artagel was questioning that justification.
Maybe I just speant way too much time thinking about this character. lol
Maybe I just speant way too much time thinking about this character. lol
He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder.~Tad Williams