So......when does Nom come back into the picture?

[ur-bane]

I can't help but think we are going to encounter the Sandgorgons again in our journey.

Nom gained the knowledge to unmake Sangorgon's Doom after he "rent" the Raver.
Certainly Nom did just that: unmade Sandgorgon's doom and freed his brethren. I am curious to know what they have been doing.

And is it a coincidence that the falls have taken the shape of Sandgorgon's Doom? And that Kevin's Dirt is a yellowish hue, like the sands of the Desert and a certain golden ocular that was (apparently) lost in the fall of Kemper's Pitch?

Is Kasreyn of the gyre still able to enact his will since the Law of Death has been broken? Could he (Kasreyn) be enacting his own retribution against those that undid him, and in the process unknowingly aid Foul?

I for one think that we have not seen the last of the Bhrathair, or their long-dead Kemper and his minions, or the Sandgorgons.

[Roynish]

Nom. The sandgorgons are seemingly beyond time.
So an interesting thread.

Who knows what has happened in that far flung land.

Croyels have been their before.........

[Jerico]

I think that Croyels have taken over the Sandgorgans, and the Giants have been busy fighting them.

[ur-bane]

I think that Croyels have taken over the Sandgorgans, and the Giants have been busy fighting them.

I could be wrong about this, but I got the impression that the croyel do not "take over" anybody/thing.
The person who wishes approaches the croyel.
Kind of like making a deal with the Devil. "I'll trade you my eternal soul for a lifetime of power."

And, given the knowledge Nom received by rending the Raver, I doubt that there would be a need for the Sandgorgons to deal with the croyel.

They are puissant (he-he) in and of themselves.

[Creator]

I think that Croyels have taken over the Sandgorgans, and the Giants have been busy fighting them.

An interesting thought! But I don't know if I'd say "taken over". Croyel seem to trade mastery to a willing individual for ... hmmmm ... their soul? Perhaps NOM after rending the Raver was infected and desired more mastery of his brethren and therefore bargained with the Croyel. Now that would pose an interesting problem!

[ur-bane]

Hmmm....posted at the same time.

Two different interpretations of the possibilities associated with the rending of the Raver.

I had not thought about the malignant qualities Nom may have inherited by rending the Raver. Very interesting.

[Creator]

Hmmm....posted at the same time.

Two different interpretations of the possibilities associated with the rending of the Raver.

I had not thought about the malignant qualities Nom may have inherited by rending the Raver. Very interesting.

Great minds think alike ur-bane!!

[Hig]

*boom*
*boom*
*boom*

[Creator]

*boom*
*boom*
*boom*

Hmmmmm ... is that a male sandgorgon or a female sandgorgon?

[High Lord Tolkien]

*boom*
*boom*
*boom*

Hmmmmm ... is that a male sandgorgon or a female sandgorgon?

What does a female sandgorgon look like?

Mahdoubt?

[Glaive]

We've had a Giant-raver...and a Sandgorgon-raver could have it's possibilities...except Ravers LOVE to gloat, which would be difficult in this instance.

[I'm Murrin]

Perhaps they could gloat via a conveniently placed Haruchai?

[Gofer]

To possibly link this thread with another.......

The Raver that Nom 'rent' was Sheol. Who was the raver who:

'mastered the heart of Berek's liege — Sheol who slaughtered the champions of the Land, and drove Berek, half-unhanded and alone, to his extremity on the slopes of Mount Thunder' (again, thanks Variol).....

and so began the old Lords dabbling with earthpower, which presumably attracted Foul, opened up the door to white gold and attacks on the arch of time which may allow Foul to escape (which would be doing Foul's bidding) but may also ultimately allow Foul's evil to be neutralised (which would be in TC/Linden's gameplan)

If we do not see Nom coming back, I wouldn't mind betting that some form of Sandgorgon/Raver combination will be back. It opens up the possibility of the Sandgorgon/Raver going back in time to Doriender Korishev and besting Berek. The ravers do not possess power of their own, but rather use the attributes of those they control - which would explain how a raver were able to summon up the forces/malign presence described.

However, if that were the case (one badly educated guess amongst many) it begs the question: why would the Sandgorgon/raver attack Berek?

Is it because the Raver is in control and hates Berek and all things earthpower friendly, or is it the sandgorgon who has gained the knowledge to stop Foul but needs to set the wheels in motion?

Or are they both manipulated by someone else (Foul/TC/Linden) in that whichever has control, the outcome of them being sent back would be the same - although for different reasons?

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Once again, all of the major protagonists have equally valid reasons for getting a defeated Berek to Mount Thunder. Foul cannot escape without the Lords' staff of Law

(which also leads to a possible reason for why the supposedly powerful Ur-Viles are so weak in the first series and are bested by Lords who barely understand the smallest part of the First ward. Lord Foul cannot afford for the Lords to be beaten! He needs them to summon TC in the first place and never intends to win on the battlefield - it would be counterproductive. Likewise with Kevin - Foul needed to pressurize him, but could not afford to destroy him in battle as he needed him to set in motion the events which would lead to the whitegold coming)

Likewise, his evil cannot be vanquished without TC, who therefore needs Berek to start the ball rolling. Once again, SRD is using the contradictions and paradoxes of power to ensure that everyone needs very similar things to happen, all of which can 'save or damn' any of them. It is their motivations (and sometimes methods) which are different. How very much alike they all are.........

So, exactly who is using who here? In most other books, this would be overcomplicating the possibilities, but given SRD's treack record.......

Or maybe I'm just plain deluded and the books will reveal such a radically different (AND OBVIOUS) set of solutions that I'll wonder where I got these Hair brained ideas from in the first place!!!!

[Warmark]

in answer to the origonal question : soon i hope

[Caer Bombadil]

With regard to the original question: as soon as someone says "Nom"

Don't have book with me now, but weren't Sandgorgons among the mysterious wonders and prodigies the Elohim preached to the astonished Mithil Stonedownors?

Pretty amazing theories we have. My gut feeling is that the Sandgorgons will continue to be with the "good guys". Perhaps they'll eventually talk some sense into the Haruchai!

Incidentally, I've always wondered: Was Nom the only Sandgorgon whose name was known? Did Kasreyn keep calling on Nom over and over again whenever he had dirty work to do, or did the Decrepit One perhaps have a Rolodex up in Kemper's Pitch full of Sandgorgon names to choose from? In any event, I think the knowledge of any other Sandgorgon names (and the ability to summon them) perished with Kasreyn and the Sandhold (as well as the Rolodex).

[Khat]

Don't have book with me now, but weren't Sandgorgons among the mysterious wonders and prodigies the Elohim preached to the astonished Mithil Stonedownors?

Yes the Elohim that came to Liand's village when he was a boy told of sandgorgons, Croyel, Merewives, and that a "bane of great pussance and ferocity in the far north had slipped its bonds, and found release in Mt. Thunder."

This seems to introduce that we may see a true mixture of all the Land's beings together in this Last Chronicles. I believe we shall see a sandgorgon again...

Do you believe???

[finn]

I'm sure he has a collection of business cards from various Sandgorgons along with their web sites and mobile numbers.

Interesting ideas, I think you're right about them being mentioned by the Elohim so they are still around but after all these years are they the same or descendants?

The time thing is also intrigueing as they have the same ability as the Ranyhyn to traverse distance ahead of summoning or somehow through the fabric of normal time.

I think they are fundamentally good insomuch as they are true to their nature, an eagle is admired for this for example, despite what it does to poor bunny rabbits. With the unlocking of their consiousness and the way they communicate, they could be like the Haruchai of old and TC could be greeted by them with the sort of reverence he had of old.

Interseting idea for a new thread.... How will TC and the Haruchai interact at Revelstone... assuming TC makes it!

[Avatar]

The time thing is also intrigueing as they have the same ability as the Ranyhyn to traverse distance ahead of summoning or somehow through the fabric of normal time.

Good point, and not one I'd thought of. Aah, the possibilities are endless for now, aren't they?

--A

[wayfriend]

The time thing is also intrigueing as they have the same ability as the Ranyhyn to traverse distance ahead of summoning or somehow through the fabric of normal time.

Good point, and not one I'd thought of. Aah, the possibilities are endless for now, aren't they?

The Sandgorgons do not have the this ability. They are merely very fast, and tireless.

[finn]

Hmmmm, is that opinion Wayfriend? I'd like to see something that would convince me that Nom could travel the vast distance involved to get to Revelstone within the time between TC saying "Nom" and Nom actually arriving.

Without refuting evidence it seems far more likely the Sandgorgons share the Ranyhyn's abilty to transact through time. This may be pertinent considering time is now a variable value and guidance through time is an asset which the sandgorgons may share. They also have a perceived debt to TC which could make time-guidance, a means of payment.