To Live is to Die - Metallica quote SRD

[hierachy]

Surely you're not talking about that 'Numb' song?

'tis just the latest in a series of many(and not the most relavent by a long shot)

if it makes you think of it, great, but they sure as hell didnt have these books in mind when they wrote the songs

I'm not saying they did, just that there very strong links.

[danlo]

Pork-links!

[Metal-Demon]

Sorry to re-hash a very old thread ... but I noticed that no one has mentioned the fact that METALLICA also have a song called "Leper Messiah" from their albm, Master of Puppets.

Here are the lrics to that song. I see a few references to the story of Thomas Covenant, but you folks seem to be much more educated on the saga than I am ... so you be the judge:


Leper Messiah

"Spineless from the start, sucked into the part
circus comes to town, you play the lead clown
Please, please
spreading his disease, living by his story
Knees, knees
falling to your knees, suffer for his glory
You will

[Chorus]
Time for lust, time for lie
time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
and you'll get a better seat
[End Chorus]

Bow to Leper Messiah

Marvel at his tricks, need your Sunday fix
blind devotion came, rotting your brain
Chain, chain
Join the endless chain
Stinking by his glamour
Fame, Fame
Infection is the game, stinking drunk with power
We see

[Chorus]

Bow to Leper Messiah

Witchery, weakening
Sees the sheep are gathering
set the trap, hypnotize
now you follow

[Chorus]

Lie."

[kaseryn]

On a related note i posted a link a while back to this album/band whose name seems quite a coincidence?

www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:5kw67uq080j0

[Metal-Demon]

Colossus of the Fall?

Hmm ... interesting!

[onewyteduck]

Why doesn't somebody send a letter to James Hetfield or Lars Ulrich, et al and ask them? See what they might have to say about it, that is if any of them would bother to respond.

Duck

[Metal-Demon]

Why doesn't somebody send a letter to James Hetfield or Lars Ulrich, et al and ask them? See what they might have to say about it, that is if any of them would bother to respond.

I highly doubt that the "Twin Divas" (Jame$ and Lar$) would consider such a letter worthy of their oh-so valuable attention, let alone a response. They're probably too busy counting all the cash they got from that horrible "St. Anger" album.



Oh, how the mighty have fallen ... but that's a different discussion altogether.

[Worm of Despite]

Metallica for a TCTC soundtrack? What about reggae? Or how about they play some smooth jazz during the Celebration of Spring? Or what about an 80s power ballad during the closing credits?

[kaseryn]

Picture TC in one of his desperate, forlorn scenes [ok thats quite a wide berth] to Foreigner's I Wanna Know What Love Is ....

[Jasmina]

Speaking of TCTC.
Have you noticed there really is no music in the Land.
Sure...Atiaran 'sings' the ballad of Berek Halfhand to the gathering at Mithil Stonedown...and others 'sing' power-songs and such...but...
Sounds more like Bards and Ballads than top 40 or something.

What sort of song would Lena be humming while doing her chores? What are teenage Woodhelvenen torturing their parents with after school? What are the 'lusty Haruchai' listening to when they 'get-it-on'?...Barry White?

Just wondering.

[CovenantJr]

Or what about an 80s power ballad during the closing credits?

I don't think a metal soundtrack would be very appropriate on the whole, but the right songs at the right points would go quite well. I can see the big, explosive battle scenes in the Illearth War (like Callindrill's contingent being pursued by kresh) being accompanied by something like track 1 from Once by Nightwish, or track 2 from Elements Part 1 by Stratovarius (the individual titles elude me)

[ur-James]

The song Leper Messiah, while having some lyrical references to TC, is about evangelists who are using religion as a money making scheme. Most specifically the televangelists (sp?), or the ones on TV, the whole Jimmy Baker scandal. That's what that song is really about, but you are right, there are quite a few strong references, especially that first line:

Spineless from the start, sucked into the part

But I think that's more of a reflection of how some people will believe just about anything they're told and don't bother thinking for themselves. But yeah, that's pretty cool.

And I'm not sure if Cliff wrote the part from To Live Is To Die. I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's a quote from someone else that Cliff read somewhere and really liked, but I could be completely wrong about that. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if Cliff was a SRD fan.

James

EDIT: Interesting find! I was going through some old posts of mine on another forum I frequent, and ran across a thread about Metallica thanking Rush in the liner notes for "Master of Puppets". Then someone posted this little tidbit:

Cliff was a BIG sci-fi, fantasy book fan. His nod to Loftcraft (Thing That Should Not Be) was obvious (and they might have given credit...I don' t remember).

But...I remember back then reading somewhere that Cliff specifically was reading the Thomas Covenent fantasy series by Stephen R. Donaldson (one of my favorites) about the leper in our world who goes to a fantasy world (called the Land)....dark, really...even rapes someone..but ends up saving the world.....very good writing (need a dictionary on hand)...anway

Then comes the song " Leper Messiah" ...which I think, for the most part, lyrically, deals with hypocritical preachers...but I also know the character Thomas Covenant was the " leper" messiah of the fantasy world...

Then...on And Justice for All...there' s that great instrumental song they say they took from Cliff' s riffs he' d been working on...and even snatches of lyrics in his diary or whatever...and the " When a man lies, he murders part of the world...." that came EXACTLY from the Thomas Convenant chronicles...and I don' t think Stephen R. Donaldson was given credit...it wasn' t Cliff' s original lyrics.

So, there we have that. Cliff was an SRD fan and more than likely pulled those lines from LFB, or at least added on to them. Cool!

[Wipe]

I've always considered the Depeche Mode album "Violator' as soundtrack to a TC movie.

Don't know why, maybe I just love the album...

[Myste]

I don't know nuthin 'bout Metalica, but I can say that in terms of fair use in intellectual property law, using lines or ideas from other artistic sources is okay as long as you don't use too much. It's called "literary allusion." It is a shame they didn't say, "Thanks to SRD for the inspiration," but they don't really have to, I don't think.

"Every artist is a cannibal/Every poet is a thief."--U2

[theDespiser]

well, Cliff wrote the poem, not Metallica...and he probably didnt mean for it to end up in a song...they put that poem in the song as a tribute to him...they probably have never even heard of Thomas Covenant or SRD....unless Cliff was a fan, and they heard of him through cliff...as i said, i dont know...





man, i had forgotten all about this thread...i was all set to reply to it...

imagine my surprise when i already had...heheh

[[Syl]]

I am still willing to shower WGDs upon anyone who can get me a copy of Holocaust's concept album Covenant.

[theDespiser]

man,i must have missed that..i wouldnt think it was hard to find..i remember reading a review of it in Metal Maniacs...when it first came out...i had just finished the first series, i think...i thought it was pretty cool...the idea i mean...wouldnt mind haveing that myself..you try ebay?

[theDespiser]

here ya go...near mint copy of the Japanese version

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 95618&rd=1




in NEPAL, though...hmmm...

[[Syl]]

Hmm, looks tempting. Thanks.

[Sheriff Lytton]

For anyone wanting to hear a heavy metal album riddled with Thomas Covenant references, there's always "The Principle of Doubt" by Mekong Delta from way back in '89.

Here's the relevant songs:

THE PRINCIPLE OF DOUBT

(B. Eklund, Mekong Delta)

The old bum over there holds a sign saying
The only way for you to live never stop trying
A little boy hands a note over to me
The message there on that note is simple and clear
Don't ever leave the path you have been walking on
Don't ever change the ways of getting along
No chance for you to escape from your destination
Choose between good and bad and make your own decision
Just be true to yourself and things will be comin'
Don't ever try to make them smile at you
For in return they'll turn their back on you
A prophecy that's what I say
And you'll find out some day
A chosen one that's what you are
Some day your bound to find your way
You'll fight in a world that don't seen real
You'll have to fight in that world you don't believe in
Don't you try to resist for things will be comin'
Hit by a car in the streets of deserted town
Wake up in your dreams wondering where you're around
I will be lord of this land
I will be ruler of this land
No one can stop me anyway
This will all be mine some day
And you can't run away
Away from your destiny
Now you can't deny
The part you're bound to play
Run but you can't get away
Run but you won't change your fate
Don't try to hideaway
I'll wait for you someday

ONCE I BELIEVED

(B. Eklund, Mekong Delta)

Here's a wired tale of madness
About what happened to me
I led a live full of luxury
Till I broke down on my knees
Cadillacs and furcoats
A mansion by the sea
Then lady luck walked away
Left me in misery
Once I believed
This couldn't happen to me
But now
But now
Everything has changed
A six inch blade cut through my hand
On that fatal day
Then the doctor told me
Slow death is coming my way
My woman went away
People ignoring me
Razorblades in my bread
The folks in town wished I was dead
Once I believed
This couldn't happen to me
But now
But now
Everything has changed
What they say
They don't want me around in this town
Don't want me
Don't want me
We don't want you
Don't want me
Once I believed
This couldn't happen to me
But now
But now
Everything has changed
What they say
They don't want me around in this town
Don't want me
Don't want me
We don't want you
Don't want me


EVER SINCE TIME BEGAN

(B. Eklund, Mekong Delta)

Way back in ancient days
I took the shape of a golden idol
They knelt in front of me
Worshipped me; Prayed to me
I saw the greed in their eyes
Longing - fame and fortune
Yearning - wine and women
Craving - gold and happiness
Demanding - Eternal life, eternal life
I saw them burning down
Cities and countries
They killed millions of men
To please me; to calm me down
I saw the greed in their eyes
Longing - fame and fortune
Yearning - wine and women
Craving - gold and happiness
Demanding - Eternal life, eternal life
I've been around for so long
Their faith and devotion make me strong
I saw them burning down
Cities and countries
They killed millions of men
To please me; to calm me down
I saw the greed in their eyes
Longing - fame and fortune
Yearning - wine and women
Craving - gold and happiness
Demanding - Eternal life, eternal life
They've prayed at my altar
With heads bowed real low
And I've been around
Where ever they go
Where ever they go
Until the end
The end of time
There's no escape
How I like your
Sacrifices
Ever since time began
Ever since time began


CURSE OF REALITY

(B. Eklund, Mekong Delta)

Ambitious
I am
Gonna save this world
Drums beatin'
Soldiers marchin'
Don't stand in our way
Over the hills
We march
The final showdown is near
I am chosen
To be
Saviour of this world
Marching on
Through this land
My dreams
They'll all come true
I will never ever fail
We just do what's right
We will never die
The world ain't real
The weak one cries
Soon he'll face the truth
Over the hills
We march
The final showdown is here
Dawn is here
But what I see
I simply can't believe
Soldiers, soldiers, soldiers everywhere
As far as I can see
Billions of enemies
Bound to tear my world apart
Now that I face the facts
I gotta realize
Something must have been wrong from the start
I can see
Them smile at me
I know the end is near
That's the curse of reality
Curse of reality

Well, it's not much of an album to be honest. The lyrics are banal, and the metal is what can only be described as Scandanavian. The best track on it is the cover of "The Twilight Zone" theme arranged for metal band and full orchestra.