Did you miss Covenant?

[burgs]

I missed Convenant but not in the story that was laid out. He was missed like wanting to see an old friend would be.

That's well said, and exactly how I feel.

[drew]

I liked that when we heard from him, through Anele, Linden was so go-ga just to hear his voice. After ten years, a new carreer an adopted son, not to mention all the heartaches with her summoning, she still loves him. And Loves him unconditionally.

-so what...call me a sentimentalist, I am a Canadian eh?

[Creator]

...

-so what...call me a sentimentalist, I am a Canadian eh?

Interesting "Canadian" discussion - but not really "Covenant".

I've split posts and moved to General discussion under Canadian Invitation

Have at it!

[finn]

I must confess, the last line felt like I'd just heard that an old friend had arrived at the airport, (being an Englishman living in Sydney this is wont to happen from time to time).

Tincup's point is interesting and I remember thinking at the time (of reading WGW) that Foul and Covenant's relationship, ie, being one and the same was a parallel to Covenants own nature living with his leprosy. Could Fould be a manifestation of Covenant's leprosy within the paradoxes of his relationship with the Land? If Foul lives then so must Covenant and if Foul was present in the past then so must Covenant have been; that could account for Berek's half hand (either as a Covenant manifistation, or maimed in mockery).

[Creator]

Gosh, the details we could discuss.... I'll have to control myself.

I've often referred to the Land as an "arena." And I suggested recently in this interview that Earthpower flows closer to the surface in the Land than elsewhere. Naturally Lord Foul would be drawn there. BUT. A close reading of the first six books reveals that LF came to the Land from elsewhere in the Earth: the Land knew Ravers well before it met the Despiser. During the ages of the One Forest's flourishing, humankind hardly existed in the Land at all--and LF would naturally go where the people are. Furthermore, there is evidence that LF has been at work elsewhere in the Earth (long ago if not presently): the shadow on the heart of the Elohim; the fact that the Elohim appear to have an established tradition of Appointing one among them to stop evils here and there (personally, I find it difficult to believe that Findail, Kastenessen, and the Elohim sent to aid the One Forest were the *only* Elohim who were ever Appointed). And then there's the curious fact that Kevin's Council failed to recognize LF. How, I ask myself, could that have happened if the Old Lords had any previous experience of the Despiser? I may be getting myself in trouble here; but I suspect that LF didn't come to the Land until the Old Lords became powerful enough to be useful to him.

If we assume the timescale stays the same, Covenant would have been a youth while Foul apparently was messing around in other parts of the Earth. This suggests Covenant is separate from Foul. [His Leprosy would NOT have been a factor.]

Perhaps Foul is the CAUSE of Covenant's Leprosy! Perhaps Foul and the Creator decided to fight their final battles over Covenant - or perhaps more appropriately his soul and the bond Covenant has with his wife Joan.

[finn]

Unless the timescale does not remain the same and it appears to not to be. If Covenant travels back in time or is somehow not restrained by time, then his arrival in the land could be his first introduction to the Land and its first introduction to him. However the ongoing battle between Foul and Covenant/the Lands guardians may not forward-timeline dependant then Foul's appearance in the past is not dependant on the past's relative position to to the 'real' world.

Covenant and Berek's hand, the prior existence and knowledge of White Gold, the appearance of Lord Foul and the balance/battle of good an evil protagonists all seem more than the product of coincidence. In a place where possesion both mailgn and for good, is possible and with no constraint of time (the Ranyhn have some ability to control time either through bending it or through precience, Time therefore must have some correlation with Earthpower within "law", which allows this prior to what we have now seen with caesures) these 'coincidences' are more plausible.

Thus, if Foul could indeed be a manifestation of Covenant's leprosy when Covenant first arrives in the Land, it could also be the same manifestation in its past. In fact any of the past as we've read it in the first 6 books could be the end result of manipulation of time and not the original version of events!

Speculation indeed, I guess its a bit detailed and nerdy! I'm just a bit full of it and excited after finding the book on the shelf and not having been able to put it down. I had no knowledge of it coming out till I saw it at the bookshop and have re-read the original 6 over and over. Very few books have had sort of effect on me, LOTR and Dune maybe. the Land is place I visit from time to time, like a favourite weekend resort. My ap[ologies, right now I'd enter into any nonsense just to keep hold of it!

[Iryssa]

*sigh* I missed him...but I'm not about to say that Donaldson was wrong to keep him out as much as he did; I trust him too much. I agree that it was like missing an old friend...I so dearly want to "see" him again.

[Wormwood]

I missed Covenant because he was always the character I identified more with through both Chronicles. The ostracization, alienation, being in a place you can't understand or deal with particularly well so much that your only real goal is simple survival, no matter what the cost. Plus, I know my own inner despiser and constantly have to put away feelings of despair, or desire for violence, or hatred. Certainly, I'm not as big a bastard as Covenant, but I can identify with most of his feelings and thoughts. 1st Chronicles was always my favorite because Covenant was so conflicted.

Oddly enough, my wife (who also loves SRD books) couldn't care less about no Covenant. She was always a huge Linden fan, because she identified strongly with her (Distant, useless abusive self destructive father, fat inneffectual religious mother), and was quite happy to see her come into her own. She always liked 2nd Chronicles better.

So, I guess it's all a matter of persepctive. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

[CovenantJr]

I missed Covenant because he was always the character I identified more with through both Chronicles. The ostracization, alienation, being in a place you can't understand or deal with particularly well so much that your only real goal is simple survival, no matter what the cost. Plus, I know my own inner despiser and constantly have to put away feelings of despair, or desire for violence, or hatred. Certainly, I'm not as big a bastard as Covenant, but I can identify with most of his feelings and thoughts. 1st Chronicles was always my favorite because Covenant was so conflicted.

Precisely. Well said.