Is Runes Flawed?

[I'm Murrin]

High Lord Tolkien: In answer to your question, consider the GAP cycle. The first book, The Real Story, was set over two or three weeks. Forbidden Knowledge spanned months. The third book; days.

[Guest]

In response to the thread's rhetorical question "Is the Runes Flawed", my concern with the Runes is that when I first read White Gold Wielder, I went back and re-read the ending about 10 times (and the whole series about 9 or 10 times after that). I think that without reservation, the ending SRD had was the best ending for any story I have ever heard or read. I thought the ending was so complete as to have wrapped up all loose ends, without doing so in a forced manner and that the message of the entire series was completed with such astonishing brilliance that I was stunned and continue to think of the books often. I am worried that that feeling of closure and the idea that Thomas had met his redemption, that Linden had met and overcome her ghosts and that the act of TC's redemption would secure the Arch from Fouls machinations forever.

Well, I trust SRD to astonish me again...but so far I don't think Runes has caught me up in the continuing story. I think it is because I knew from the beginning of LFB that Covenant was flawed and that he would have to overcome his greatest faults to save the Land. In the Second Chronicles, you knew he would have to go a bit beyond coming to terms with his inner despiser and needed redemption...he had come to terms with the venom in his soul, but he needed to have the venom burned out of him somehow, and from WGW, it was a side of himself that finally made him pure. LA also had an obvious fatal flaw in the Second Chrons, which she would need to overcome in order to be whole.

I guess in LCTC, I just don't know who besides the Land needs fixin'. I have no problem with Runes being a prequel, since SRD seems to have more 'splaining to do (in the last three books, not in his GI). I hope that the Runes has set things up that we will need to read the next three to understand. Needless to say, I think we should all get tissue samples taken in case SRD needs a kidney or something before he finishes the series! We may even need to Appoint someone to toss in a heart if necessary. This may be the only place where people would understand that they may be asked to be Appointed and bear what must be borne!

[burgs]

Needless to say, I think we should all get tissue samples taken in case SRD needs a kidney or something before he finishes the series! We may even need to Appoint someone to toss in a heart if necessary. This may be the only place where people would understand that they may be asked to be Appointed and bear what must be borne!

That's good.

I think that there's quite a bit that needs fixing. Of course the Masters themselves need a good smacking, Foul seems to need to be fixed, Linden hasn't completely dealt with her issues of self doubt, and we have absolutely no idea what's going on with good ol' TC. He may not be flawed or seeking redemption, but if really is hiding from Foul, then something is afoot.

[wayfriend]

I've been away for a while. I want to respond to this thread. I, too, thought Runes was weak, although it had it's moments.

But I gave up trying to read this whole thread to make sure I'm not repeating too much, which I like to do, but, dang, by about the 5th page I was tired of the fighting.

So here's some things that I hope are new contributions.

1.
At the point where Linden was talking to Foul, gods! I was hooked. At that point, the story had me fascinated. A chatty Foul! This could go into some very unusual places ... Too bad that seemed to dry up and blow away ...

2.
The kresh attack. C'mon, wasn't everyone pee-ohd at how that was resolved? "They stood there, and then nothing happened." It seemed that this story doesn't contain any struggle.

3.
By the time I was two-thirds through, I was going to myself, dang, aren't we through this pass yet? Too many pages were spent getting from Mithil Stonedown to the Ramen valley.

4.
This one is a repeat, but bears repeating: The horserite was a big let-down.

5.
The manner in which Linden was able to assemble a means of traveling through time was so pat as to make me suffer. I admire the idea of connecting the Ranyhyn to time travel. But the fact that you can take some Ranyhyn, add some ur-viles, stir with White Gold, and time travel anywhere -- too easy! It could have done with just a tiny bit of suspense. Then it turns out you coulda just asked Esmer - gah! No struggle.

6.
The retrieval of he Staff - again, too easy. No struggle.

7.
Here's my biggest reason for being disappointed - Where is the Land?

WHERE IS THE LAND!?!?!?!?!

Think about it. We had one and one half books to love the Land. LFB, and half of TIW. The other half is in the desert or in the mountains. In TPTP the Land has been taken from us by Foul's winter. Then in the whole ChronII the Land has been taken from us by the Sunbane. A few moments in Andelain is all we get.

By the time we reach TROTH, I need a dose of the Land. I cannot sustain a relationship with this place without checking in from time to time. It's taking on the character of a girlfriend who needs to get bailed out of one crisis or another all the time, but who otherwise doesn't want to spend any time with you - it makes you wonder why you want to remain involved.

I need beauty!

[hamako]

Well I've just finished it and I judge my opinion of it by the fact that I'm not desparate to read it again. I'd agree with the general criticisms here I think.

I thought the chapters at the beginning building to Linden leaving for the Land were gripping, but the whole slab of story in Mithil Stonedown and the mountains was just plain dull.

Not a lot really grabbed me until we get to the time travel section and finding of the Staff. From then on the story stepped up a gear. It was like the Chronicles of old.

I agree the book could have been way shorter, but I still enjoyed it. Can't see it winning any new fans though.

Obviously there's going to be thick plots running through the Last Chronicles, but I hope that the next 3 books are better edited - there was a bit of filler in here I think.

Maybe us critics are over critical, but I stand by my comments.

[Aleksandr]

Sixth, Foul didn't have the strength to pull people in the Land before. He used people to get that done for him. What's changed?

He pulled TC and LA into the Land at the beginning of TWL.Yes, he had some help from the fanatics he was directing in the “real” world, but that was mostly in compelling Covenant to assent to the Summoning and trade himself for Joan. The cult people had no magical powers from the Land of their own.

Seventh, the inconsistencies are alarming. How much time has passed since the 2nd Chrons? Sometimes it says 3,000 years and other times it seems to imply 30,000 years

Not sure where you saw the 30,000, but we are told that the time passed is about 3600 years, just as between the 1st and 2nd Chronicles. (In a gradual interview SD makes the point that 1 year in the Land = 1 day in the real world.)

The harachai go to all lengths to capture Anele over decades of time, and yet in their very own midst they have a creature of great power & they don't even understand her???????

The Madoubt is meant to be a mystery for now. On the thread I started with that title, I pointed out the odd fact that the Haruchai are uncurious about her. We should reserve judgement until we have this explained.

Ten, it seems that the demondim could have easily beat the land long ago. They have knowledge of the location of the illearth stone and could simply stand and fight in a location where death has previously occurred. In fact, why not send them to the entrance of Garrotting Deep right when Hile Troy & Morham get there? I mean, that would be a better betrayal. Foul would have won.

The Demondim were long extinct at the time of the 1st Chronicles. Foul had no way to bring them back. On the other hand I am troubled by the question of how they were able to capture a Fall (about which they would have known nothing originally) and use it to channel the Stone in such a very short time period. How long would they have had when Esmer shifted them forward in time? Scant seconds I would think.

[I'm Murrin]

On the other hand I am troubled by the question of how they were able to capture a Fall (about which they would have known nothing originally) and use it to channel the Stone in such a very short time period. How long would they have had when Esmer shifted them forward in time? Scant seconds I would think.

We don't know exactly how long they were there before the attack on the Waynhim's place - they clearly advanced towards the cave entrance slowly, we don't know how far from. Also, with no real 'time' inside a Fall, if a Fall had brought them there they may have had time inside to figure out a little of how it works. Lastly, if my assumption is correct, and Esmer manipulated a Fall to pick them up in the first place, then they would have seen and sought to understand the Fall before they ever entered it (they'd be far more adept at manipulating it than the Ur-Viles, also).

[burgs]

Not unless Esmer, for whom time matters little, gave them MORE time.

[Aleksandr]

Lastly, if my assumption is correct, and Esmer manipulated a Fall to pick them up in the first place, then they would have seen and sought to understand the Fall before they ever entered it (they'd be far more adept at manipulating it than the Ur-Viles, also).

Their coming forward in time is a bit more awkward now in light of SRD’s comments in a gradual interview that the Falls have little or no power in eras before the Laws of Life and Deaths were broken. Anele comes from after those events, and those Ur-Viles may too (at the end of WGW Linden perceived some surviving Ur-Viles deep in Mt Thunder). We don’t know about the Kresh. But the Demondim definitely come from centuries before the Law of Death was broken and their caesure is channeling the Ill-Earth Stone from way back when too. Awkward, as I said.

[Jerico]

Not so..SRD said unless it had a guiding intelligence (e.g. the Demondin)

[I'm Murrin]

Yes - he added a little get-out clause by saying it has little effect unless there's a guiding hand.

[Tim The Enchanter]

I thought Runes was near-flawless.

The critiques people are bringing up seem to be bringing up are personal opinion ones. If someone didn't find the quest to recover the new staff of law compelling, but found the first six books entertaining, I've got to think there's something wrong with that person.

The idea that Linden is too "one note" is nuts. Linden is a mother whose son has been kidnapped by Lord Foul. You can't expect her to be colorful and entertaining or awestruck ("Golly Gee! Melenkurion Skyweir sure is tall") when Lord Foul is doing Creator-Knows-What to Jeremiah.

And I don't know what the critiques on the editing are all about: to my taste the book flew by far too quickly.

[wayfriend]

I didn't find it compelling ...

She needs the staff ... she goes back in time ... the Waynhim give her the staff ... she comes back.

Well, going back in time is tricky ... You need to talk to some people .... they tell you how to do it .... then you do it ... then you did it.

Forgive me if that doesn't blow my socks off. Somethings wrong with me I guess.

[MrKABC]

Runes was a good ride - slow in spots, but the pace picked up as the story went on.

I think we've all done a good job highlighting some of the inconsistencies of the new Chronicles to the last two, so I won't repeat them here. I also think that SRD will resolve a lot of these inconsistencies in future books, so we should probably be more patient (easier said than done!!)

I do think the whole time travel subplot was a little too pat - the needed ingredients were there and everything worked flawlessly. The kresh battle also seemed to be WAY too pat - testing my suspension of disbelief to the extreme.

Also missing: (and I took as a bad sign as soon as I got my copy of Runes) was a complete map of the Land! I wanted to see if there were new Forests, Stonedowns, Woodhelvens, etc... When I only saw the locales of Mithil Stonedown and Revelstone, I wondered about how far the characters were going to get, geographically speaking.

I agree with the poster that the trip to Mithil's Plunge and the Ramen valley took wayyyyyyyyy too long - more time should have been spent on the Demondim battle and Revelstone.

That being said - the book was like a treasured visit from an old friend. I was instantly transported to 1983 when I had to ride my bicycle to a distant shopping mall to get my AUTOGRAPHED copy of WGW, only to arrive too late by about 20 minutes (still have the generic autographed sticker in my book though).

I think that the premise of a future battle between TWO white gold rings is an exciting one and has me foaming at the mouth in anticipation. I can't wait!