RTOFLMAO!amanibhavam wrote:The Gap adapted to young Christians? Like a joint with the dope extracted?
Covenant Chronicles Copycat?
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Alynna Lis Eachann
- Lord
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"We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap." - Kurt Vonnegut
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
I don't think I want to submit myself to reading what looks to be pretty certainly a moral, if not legal, rip-off of TCTC (the excerpt on michaelwarden.com was enough), but for those who are curious and don't wish to support the author, it occurred to me that buying used from amazon.com's private sellers will ensure the fellow doesn't make any profit.
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.
-F. Scott Fitzgerald
Stephen R. Donaldson Ate My Dictionary
-F. Scott Fitzgerald
Stephen R. Donaldson Ate My Dictionary
They say plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery, but when it’s as badly done as this thing appears to be, I don’t think SRD will be taking much pride in having spawned an imitator.
What no one seems to have commented on much are the pitches for “coaching” and “training” on his site. Just as I wondered if his original intent had been to parody SRD rather than simply rip him off (apparently not), it’s hard to believe that the following statements are apparently meant sincerely and are not meant as gibes at the “self-actualization” movement:
”Michael will personally walk you through his proven Visioneering process that will reawaken your heart’s capacity to dream…”
Blah, blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah.
“You'll move from what you want to do to what you will do.”
That is an important distinction I never thought of before! See, this is why he’s the Professional Co-Active Coach and I’m not!
“A dynamic and engaging speaker…”
His own site could hardly be wrong about this, could it?
“Imagine a relationship where the total focus is on you, on what you want in life and on what will help you achieve it. That’s the essence of life coaching.”
No, that’s the essence of being a sociopath.
What would happen if you stopped merely thinking about your dreams and started actually living them?”
Like most people, I’d be arrested and summarily executed.
“I help them discover who they really are, and go after the bigger vision they were meant to fulfill in the world with confidence and authenticity.”
“Authenticity” was one word I was not expecting to encounter here.
I could go on, but what’s the point? This stuff is so inane already that it's beyond parody or ridicule. It’s depressing to realize that there may actually be fools stupid enough to shell out $250 for more of this drivel.
What no one seems to have commented on much are the pitches for “coaching” and “training” on his site. Just as I wondered if his original intent had been to parody SRD rather than simply rip him off (apparently not), it’s hard to believe that the following statements are apparently meant sincerely and are not meant as gibes at the “self-actualization” movement:
”Michael will personally walk you through his proven Visioneering process that will reawaken your heart’s capacity to dream…”
Blah, blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah.
“You'll move from what you want to do to what you will do.”
That is an important distinction I never thought of before! See, this is why he’s the Professional Co-Active Coach and I’m not!
“A dynamic and engaging speaker…”
His own site could hardly be wrong about this, could it?
“Imagine a relationship where the total focus is on you, on what you want in life and on what will help you achieve it. That’s the essence of life coaching.”
No, that’s the essence of being a sociopath.
What would happen if you stopped merely thinking about your dreams and started actually living them?”
Like most people, I’d be arrested and summarily executed.
“I help them discover who they really are, and go after the bigger vision they were meant to fulfill in the world with confidence and authenticity.”
“Authenticity” was one word I was not expecting to encounter here.
I could go on, but what’s the point? This stuff is so inane already that it's beyond parody or ridicule. It’s depressing to realize that there may actually be fools stupid enough to shell out $250 for more of this drivel.
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Iryssa
- Bloodguard
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I'd just like to say...I've read Gideon's Dawn...while there were similarities, a lot more of it came from references to the Bible...I don't think that they're similar enough to say it's a "knock-off." I know that when I write, I find it nearly impossible to do so without letting in influences from my favorite authors...maybe he's more guilty of being a bad writer with only as much imagination as me than being a copycat.
"A choice made freely is stronger than one compelled"
- Stephen R. Donaldson's The Wounded Land
https://www.xanga.com/Iryssa
- Stephen R. Donaldson's The Wounded Land
https://www.xanga.com/Iryssa
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CovenantJr
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re...
I read that author's forum and it seems that he does not as of yet have a publisher for the next 2 books in the series. His original publisher decided to go in a different direction in their publishing so efforts are being made (or maybe have been by now) to locate another publisher for the next 2 books. I still want to read the first just to judge for myself, although I have to admit from reading as many reviews and such that I can find that it appears way too close to SRD's book (s).
I will kep an open mind until I have read the first...and we have a while to wait for the next 2 even if he does have a publisher by now.
I will kep an open mind until I have read the first...and we have a while to wait for the next 2 even if he does have a publisher by now.
It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
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Don't know if anybody has checked his site recently, but somebody calling himself Lord Mhoram posted a topic, www.michaelwarden.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=60 saying that they are a rip-off. Anybody we know?
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Alynna Lis Eachann
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I certainly hope that's not one of ours! How embarassing."We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap." - Kurt Vonnegut
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
Ouch! But only embarassing for himself: he doesn't support his affirmation.
Let's give the guy the opportunity to have his say; that was the point of my asking him a question there.
I've looked in some used book shops, found nothing (in fact, even found almost no TCTC!).
It's good that Iryssa has read the first book. And she's a TC fan.
Is there a clear influence in some details (and I don't mean all details), some names, some places, some other characters, that wouldn't be accountable to coincidence?
Would it be a reasonable guess, in your opinion, once the book read, that Mr. Warden clearly borrowed some specific details from SRD, even though the balance of the book might well be original (or at least not from SRD!)?
(Btw, these aren't sarcastic rethorical questions, but real questions, out of my ignorance.)
Your input -- clearly the only one up to now who's read both works -- is appreciated.
And what I'd like to know is how much borrowing is allowed, legally, for such a publication to avoid legal problems.
How much is too much? (not quality-wise, nor even ethical-wise, but legal-wise).
Let's give the guy the opportunity to have his say; that was the point of my asking him a question there.
I've looked in some used book shops, found nothing (in fact, even found almost no TCTC!).
It's good that Iryssa has read the first book. And she's a TC fan.
Ok, in your opinion, do you think Warden inspired himself from SRD's work, for the premise for example (check my post as urLord at his forum)?Iryssa wrote:I'd just like to say...I've read Gideon's Dawn...while there were similarities, a lot more of it came from references to the Bible...I don't think that they're similar enough to say it's a "knock-off."
Is there a clear influence in some details (and I don't mean all details), some names, some places, some other characters, that wouldn't be accountable to coincidence?
Would it be a reasonable guess, in your opinion, once the book read, that Mr. Warden clearly borrowed some specific details from SRD, even though the balance of the book might well be original (or at least not from SRD!)?
(Btw, these aren't sarcastic rethorical questions, but real questions, out of my ignorance.)
Your input -- clearly the only one up to now who's read both works -- is appreciated.
Well, he's supposed to be a professional writer, a published one.Iryssa wrote: I know that when I write, I find it nearly impossible to do so without letting in influences from my favorite authors...maybe he's more guilty of being a bad writer with only as much imagination as me than being a copycat
And what I'd like to know is how much borrowing is allowed, legally, for such a publication to avoid legal problems.
How much is too much? (not quality-wise, nor even ethical-wise, but legal-wise).
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theDespiser
- <i>Haruchai</i>
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not me, in reference to the post left at his forum...
and regarding the last post, Revenant has a good point..this guy is supposed to be a professional, published writer...thats all well and good if you borrow from other books and just want to write a story you might like, and give to your friends or something, but when you actually have a book deal, and actually get books published abroad, then you have to overcome your lack of imagination...youre not going to have a publisher waste his/her time on somebody elses lack of imaginitive writing and publish their knock-off of another, published work...some may think that its different enough to publish without too many problems, but for the most part, if you're not original or imaginitive enough, you get nothing...
and like i said before, there is i difference between being influenced by a certain book/author, and just changing the names...
and regarding the last post, Revenant has a good point..this guy is supposed to be a professional, published writer...thats all well and good if you borrow from other books and just want to write a story you might like, and give to your friends or something, but when you actually have a book deal, and actually get books published abroad, then you have to overcome your lack of imagination...youre not going to have a publisher waste his/her time on somebody elses lack of imaginitive writing and publish their knock-off of another, published work...some may think that its different enough to publish without too many problems, but for the most part, if you're not original or imaginitive enough, you get nothing...
and like i said before, there is i difference between being influenced by a certain book/author, and just changing the names...
Think on that, and be dismayed
What do you do to a man who has lost everything?
Give him back something broken
What do you do to a man who has lost everything?
Give him back something broken
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Iryssa
- Bloodguard
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- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:41 am
- Location: The great white north *grin*
Revenant wrote:Ouch! But only embarassing for himself: he doesn't support his affirmation.
Let's give the guy the opportunity to have his say; that was the point of my asking him a question there.
I've looked in some used book shops, found nothing (in fact, even found almost no TCTC!).
It's good that Iryssa has read the first book. And she's a TC fan.
Ok, in your opinion, do you think Warden inspired himself from SRD's work, for the premise for example (check my post as urLord at his forum)?
Is there a clear influence in some details (and I don't mean all details), some names, some places, some other characters, that wouldn't be accountable to coincidence?
Would it be a reasonable guess, in your opinion, once the book read, that Mr. Warden clearly borrowed some specific details from SRD, even though the balance of the book might well be original (or at least not from SRD!)?
(Btw, these aren't sarcastic rethorical questions, but real questions, out of my ignorance.)
Your input -- clearly the only one up to now who's read both works -- is appreciated.
...
Well, he's supposed to be a professional writer, a published one.
And what I'd like to know is how much borrowing is allowed, legally, for such a publication to avoid legal problems.
How much is too much? (not quality-wise, nor even ethical-wise, but legal-wise).
To start out with, I want to point out that just because an author is in the profession and even published doesn't mean that they're actually good...boy, I could give you examples...
You won't find that book in used book shops, I don't think...you'd probably even have to go to a Christian book store to find it (that's where I found it, at least...I haven't seen it anywhere else besides online).
I do think he took inspiration for the premise from Donaldson -- who could help being inspired by Donaldson's work? -- but there's way too much Christian content to make them the same...unfortunately, my books are in a box somewhere in my garage right now, but when I unpack them I'll give you some actual examples...I really don't want to misquote anything or otherwise damage the credibility of my argument
Hopefully I'll be ready around the middle of the week...stay tuned! *grin*"A choice made freely is stronger than one compelled"
- Stephen R. Donaldson's The Wounded Land
https://www.xanga.com/Iryssa
- Stephen R. Donaldson's The Wounded Land
https://www.xanga.com/Iryssa
re...
I picked it up and read it. Yes, it is painfully obvious which books he got this idea from....
There IS a lot of Christian content which does make it different. However, considering his other books, that is his "thing". Just because it has Christian content doesn't make it original or different enough not to be considered a "copy". And I think it is....which is a pretty strong statement on my part as i don't like saying things like that.
I could easily do exactly what this author has done (without the Christian content as that is not my cup of tea) except I would prefer to show some 'semblance of originality. If anyone wants specific examples or names, etc...let me know and I will post a few to give you an idea or two of how the book goes along. And it DOES appear that he has found a publisher as you can pre-order the next book on Amazon. Maybe that is a standard thing to do for them...I really don't know much about how Amazon works.
There IS a lot of Christian content which does make it different. However, considering his other books, that is his "thing". Just because it has Christian content doesn't make it original or different enough not to be considered a "copy". And I think it is....which is a pretty strong statement on my part as i don't like saying things like that.
I could easily do exactly what this author has done (without the Christian content as that is not my cup of tea) except I would prefer to show some 'semblance of originality. If anyone wants specific examples or names, etc...let me know and I will post a few to give you an idea or two of how the book goes along. And it DOES appear that he has found a publisher as you can pre-order the next book on Amazon. Maybe that is a standard thing to do for them...I really don't know much about how Amazon works.
It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Gideon's Dawn
I wanna play a little game and compate a few things. How about on Page 4 where you see a map that looks remarkably similar to maps we are familiar with.
Or the first chapter where Gideon Downing faces a nameless foe and devastates the land.
Abaddon--"the true name of evil in the Land" He no longer has mortal form and goes by many names. In the present age his name is the "evil one". In ages past it has been Destroyer, Father of Ruin, Spirit of the Age, Corruption, Deathfear and Pearlslayer.
Balaam Asher-Baal--High Lord on the Council of Phallenar.
Batai--from the "High Tongue", which means Hand of the Pearl.
The Black Gorge--A very long narrow water filled canyon that marks the boundary between the Deathland barrens and the rest of the Inherited lands. Also called the Gorge.
Borin Slayer--High Commander of the Guardians of the Council of Phallenar.
Broken heart--a training center where Initiates go to try to become Lords.
Castel Morstal--A huge mountain keep built as a prison for Abaddon.
Castellan Watch-- A great forest stretching from Barrior Mountains to the Scolding Wind Hills and to Calmeron sounden. I t was named by the Kah who legends say once lived there. Those who enter the forest seldom return.
Cording--the practise of bonding their Jalen (more on jalen later) to the defense of 'their" Lord.
Council of Lords--ruling body of 13 members of the Inherited lands.
Deathland barrens--refers to all land east of he Black Gorge. This land has become desolute and dangerous as an immediate result of the Word of Desolation spoken in ancient times by High Lord Gideon Truthslayer.
Gideon Dawning-- An unwitting sojourner in the Inherited lands. A man of great wounding and great promise.
Gideon Truthslayer-- Ancient High Lord responsible for the Pearl's destruction and subsequent Desolution. There is more, but no need to go into that. We have heard it before.
Gideon's Fall--The final act of High Lord Gideon truthslayer, also refers to the place where Gideon spoke the Word and instigated the Desolution.
Gilding-- wood treatment that encases wood in the sap that bleeds from the trees of the castellan Watch. This keeps the wood from getting wet and also causes it to glow.
The Giver-- Common name for the Creator, who sent the Pearl into he Land to subdue Abaddon.
Guardians--They are sworn to follow the will of any Council Lord. They are also life-sworn servants of the Lords.
The High Tongue--spoken ages ago but has lost much of it's meaning.
Jalen--common title for all perxsonal bodyguards of the Lords. there are 3 divisions of jalen.
Juron--Black winged Lions that live on the heights of the Barrier Mountains.
Plain of Dreams--a Worded plain of singing grasses that anyone who sleeps within it's limits will dream of actual events from his or her pst, present, or future.
Raanthan--mysterious beings who speak in song and can wrap their bodies in light like a blanket.
Riftborn--Humans or other creatures born in the Deathland barrens, also are mutated by same.
Riftmen--have no bodies of their own and can assume any form they wish including humans by choice.
The Sea-Folk--race of squat, gnomelike people who make their home upon the sea.
Striven wood Forest--all who enter here are lost forever
A Trust--an endowment of hidden knowledge.
Underlord--tital given to an honorary Lord.
Warcor--military unit of Guardians or soldiers consisting of 1300 warriors. one hundred for each of the 13 Lords.
wow. words fail me. These are mostly quoted from the glossary or changed the wording some to shorten it but without changing it's meaning.
Or the first chapter where Gideon Downing faces a nameless foe and devastates the land.
Abaddon--"the true name of evil in the Land" He no longer has mortal form and goes by many names. In the present age his name is the "evil one". In ages past it has been Destroyer, Father of Ruin, Spirit of the Age, Corruption, Deathfear and Pearlslayer.
Balaam Asher-Baal--High Lord on the Council of Phallenar.
Batai--from the "High Tongue", which means Hand of the Pearl.
The Black Gorge--A very long narrow water filled canyon that marks the boundary between the Deathland barrens and the rest of the Inherited lands. Also called the Gorge.
Borin Slayer--High Commander of the Guardians of the Council of Phallenar.
Broken heart--a training center where Initiates go to try to become Lords.
Castel Morstal--A huge mountain keep built as a prison for Abaddon.
Castellan Watch-- A great forest stretching from Barrior Mountains to the Scolding Wind Hills and to Calmeron sounden. I t was named by the Kah who legends say once lived there. Those who enter the forest seldom return.
Cording--the practise of bonding their Jalen (more on jalen later) to the defense of 'their" Lord.
Council of Lords--ruling body of 13 members of the Inherited lands.
Deathland barrens--refers to all land east of he Black Gorge. This land has become desolute and dangerous as an immediate result of the Word of Desolation spoken in ancient times by High Lord Gideon Truthslayer.
Gideon Dawning-- An unwitting sojourner in the Inherited lands. A man of great wounding and great promise.
Gideon Truthslayer-- Ancient High Lord responsible for the Pearl's destruction and subsequent Desolution. There is more, but no need to go into that. We have heard it before.
Gideon's Fall--The final act of High Lord Gideon truthslayer, also refers to the place where Gideon spoke the Word and instigated the Desolution.
Gilding-- wood treatment that encases wood in the sap that bleeds from the trees of the castellan Watch. This keeps the wood from getting wet and also causes it to glow.
The Giver-- Common name for the Creator, who sent the Pearl into he Land to subdue Abaddon.
Guardians--They are sworn to follow the will of any Council Lord. They are also life-sworn servants of the Lords.
The High Tongue--spoken ages ago but has lost much of it's meaning.
Jalen--common title for all perxsonal bodyguards of the Lords. there are 3 divisions of jalen.
Juron--Black winged Lions that live on the heights of the Barrier Mountains.
Plain of Dreams--a Worded plain of singing grasses that anyone who sleeps within it's limits will dream of actual events from his or her pst, present, or future.
Raanthan--mysterious beings who speak in song and can wrap their bodies in light like a blanket.
Riftborn--Humans or other creatures born in the Deathland barrens, also are mutated by same.
Riftmen--have no bodies of their own and can assume any form they wish including humans by choice.
The Sea-Folk--race of squat, gnomelike people who make their home upon the sea.
Striven wood Forest--all who enter here are lost forever
A Trust--an endowment of hidden knowledge.
Underlord--tital given to an honorary Lord.
Warcor--military unit of Guardians or soldiers consisting of 1300 warriors. one hundred for each of the 13 Lords.
wow. words fail me. These are mostly quoted from the glossary or changed the wording some to shorten it but without changing it's meaning.
It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
re...
You know....I finished reading the book and i have to say that even the author's syntax is very similar. I guess it sounds like complaining but really i am not.
I mean, when i read phrases like, "the Word-Wielder" and then continues on with his sentances.....all I have to do is supplant different names and you swear you are reading something new in a SRD book.
It just strikes me that i could have written this book myself with the little imagination it took to create enough differences to avoid issues.
You guys/girls need to read the book to see how eerily alike they are. i can't even begin to list the hundreds of examples i have.
I mean, when i read phrases like, "the Word-Wielder" and then continues on with his sentances.....all I have to do is supplant different names and you swear you are reading something new in a SRD book.
It just strikes me that i could have written this book myself with the little imagination it took to create enough differences to avoid issues.
You guys/girls need to read the book to see how eerily alike they are. i can't even begin to list the hundreds of examples i have.
It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Coming soon... castellanwatch.com?There on the southern frontier of the map is Castellan Watch instead of Kevin's Watch
Check out my digital art at www.brian.co.za
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Alynna Lis Eachann
- Lord
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That whole "Desolution" thing gives me a queasy feeling. The syntax of the names and descriptions doe, too. I wonder if the guy was just borrowing general concepts... and didn't realize quite how many he'd borrowed.
I'd like to meet this Alinna... ask her a few questions...
I'd like to meet this Alinna... ask her a few questions...
"We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap." - Kurt Vonnegut
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
I was reding a review of the book on Amazon and I found something funny.
I fell out of my chair laughing, obviously the guy who wrote this hasn't read any SRD.Fans of Tolkien, Terry Brooks, and especially Stephen Donaldson will find this a worthy additon to their shelves.
My right hand is lightning and my left is thunder.
My eyes are flame.
My heart is ashes.
Look upon me and tremble.
My eyes are flame.
My heart is ashes.
Look upon me and tremble.
re
Somehow I doubt SRD will find this amusing. Now, he might not mind the obvious and painful "borrowings" but like he has said before....Where is the originality? Like fan fiction..he says he doesn't mind but if you create something new then you get more satisfaction from it.
I would quote him on that but am too lazy at moment to go look it up.
I would quote him on that but am too lazy at moment to go look it up.
It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.