The Futility of Knowledge

[Avatar]

Why? Why do we search, why do we cram our brains full of every scrap of information and knowledge that we can fit into them? Why do we seek to learn? Is there any purpose to it? Does it bring us any appreciable good?

I've long believed in the value of knowledge. I know in some vague and undefinable way, that knowing things is good for me. I like to know things. And the more I come to know, the more I realise how woefully inadequate our knowledge is.

There is so much to learn, and so much is being added to that amount every day as people discover more about the intricacies of the world, that by the time we die, we will be more ignorant than we are now.

We're eternally playing catch-up to the fertile imaginations of science, with things becoming obsolete before we've even learned to use them effectively.

And I sometimes ask myself why? What drives us to add to the already considerable amount of data stored between our ears? What good does it do us?

It could be argued that with knowledge and intelligence, we can choose better, save ourselves the pain of stupid decisions, or at least minimise it. But it can bring it's own pain, as, ever-unsatisfied, we search further, longer, deeper. Over-analysing, over-thinking, we inflict as much or more pain on ourselves than stupidity or ignorance would.

So why do we continue? To improve the quality of our lives? Perhaps to a point. Perhaps to get better jobs, higher pay, more status? But even there, there is a point of diminishing returns. And yet still we strive to learn.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's a good thing. I think we should continue to do our best to learn everything new. I know that it's good. I just can't really figure out why. Is it just that inbuilt drive to improve? Is it that, as I've said before, the purpose of all life is to strive? I'm not sure. What do you think?

--Avatar

[Kymbierlee]

Av wrote:

So why do we continue? To improve the quality of our lives? Perhaps to a point. Perhaps to get better jobs, higher pay, more status? But even there, there is a point of diminishing returns. And yet still we strive to learn

I go back to an answer I made a long time ago here on The Watch, maybe in The Close- I can't remember for sure.........
We seek to know more because we, as human beings, have an all encompassing NEED to know or feel that there is something more out there to give meaning to our lives. For those of us who have rejected the idea of a higher Power and of the afterlife, knowledge in and of itself can provide some satisfaction. I personally don't believe that any amount of knowledge can fill the void left behind when someone ultimately comes to believe that this is their one and only life and nothing awaits him or her but eternal, well, nothing, but it does serve to occupy the mind and keep it from dwelling on the finality of death. I personally hope and pray to the Goddess that I am right, there is an ultimate Source, and an afterlife or re-incarnation, whichever suits one best, because if this is my only life, I sure have mucked it up a bit so far........

[Variol Farseer]

I personally hope and pray to the Goddess that I am right, there is an ultimate Source, and an afterlife or re-incarnation, whichever suits one best, because if this is my only life, I sure have mucked it up a bit so far........

I see there is at any rate one point of theology on which we both agree.

Seeing this thread, I can't help thinking of a couple of famous quotes from my own tradition:

Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise; why shouldest thou destroy thyself?

Of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

To Avatar: It may be true that we can inflict as much pain on ourselves by thinking too much as by thinking too little. What I know for certain, however, is that thought and knowledge can help us not to inflict pain on each other.

I prefer knowledge to ignorance for the same reason that I prefer light to darkness: because it helps me see what I am doing and whom it affects. I happen to like helping people, but I'm not naturally very good at it; and it is a skill that I never finish learning, because every other kind of human knowledge is directly related to it.

[Avatar]

Good posts guys. Very good posts. The finality of death though, does not have to be such a terrible thing. Sure, I would like to go round agan if it's an option, but I'm not counting on it. And even if it is, as long as you're unable to remember what you did this time, you'll make different messes of your next shot too.

Perhaps the belief in an afterlife/reincarnation/whatever is in some way an excuse, or at least, a mitigating factor for having messed things up here. We accept it, and move on though. We resolve that the next time we're in a similar situation, we'll do it differently.

With all the mistakes I made, the opportunities I missed, I still regret nothing. This is, and has been, my life for better or worse. There are things that I would do differently given the chance, but nothing that I regret having done. Regret serves nothing. And if this is my only life, I'll still go out smiling.

I prefer knowledge to ignorance for the same reason that I prefer light to darkness: because it helps me see what I am doing and whom it affects.

Beautifully said VF. I like that a lot. Like yourself, I'm not all that good at helping others, though I do my humble best.

But, while I agree with your assessment, doesn't that apply only to certain kinds of knowledge? I was thinking more along the lines of useless knowledge, (can any knowledge be considered useless? Only until you need it. ), if you know what I mean.

Perhaps it's simply a way of keeping the brain fit and trained?

--Avatar

[[Syl]]

Back in the summer of '95, the summer after I graduated high school, I was hanging out with a group of friends in small town called Elko, Nevada. We were over at one of my friend's girlfriend's house. I go to use the bathroom, and on the door was one of those wooden plaques with a saying and simple design etched into it. This one said, "Knowledge without purpose is meaningless."

My friends and I were a... philosophical lot, tending to late nights at Denny's drinking coffee, reviewing books, posing riddles, etc. So I thought it nothing to ask this girl, Charlotte, if she agreed with the sign's sentiments. "Of course," she said.

Well, I've always been a proponent of useless knowledge. I love Jeopardy, was the captain of my high school's academic team (we took first both years I was captain), and all that. More than that, I believe that there really is no such thing as useless knowledge. Every extra bit of information you gain changes you. And beyond that, I believe information, in a universal sense, is indestructable. We hold information, and we are information. And like mass/energy, information can't just come from nowhere, and it can't just become nothing.

Without information, without knowledge, we are less and are capable of less. Purpose is just another kind of knowledge.

Does a man without knowledge suffer less than a man with knowledge? Most likely. Does a butterfly suffer less than a man? Undoubtedly, but which would you rather be?

[SoulQuest1970]

Every baby is born with the brain wired to learn. It is a drive that is instinctual. As long that that drive is encoouraged and fed with information and experiences it will continue to grow and desire will continue. As a child grows and by age 12 when the synapsis start to shut down that are not being used (example: foriegn language) if the needs for learning have not been met then ignorance sets in.

Why do we have a desire to learn? We are made that way. Why do some people lack a desire? They were made to be that way despite natural programming. Simply we come into this world programmed to learn and in some the learning is encouraged to thrive, or the need is so great and sometimes people learn not to seek more knowledge.

Are some people wired to be a "happy pig?" Are some people just meant to want to work at McDonalds forever (not in management... talking about burger flipping) while others are wired to be scientists, philosophers, doctors and lawyers? I think not. Since every baby is born wired, that makes no sense. That pesky nature/nurture thing again.

Ok so why would our brains be wired to begin with? One could simply say that is because it is. I think it is because our souls are still so new to that body and brain. We are driven to experience life in order to learn more about ourselves. Mistakes are just part of that process. Also without sadness and mistakes we would not be able to appreciate the joys and victories in life.

My personal belief is that we come into the world knowing the answers to life and death. We know what is out there. As we grow and the synapses grow, parts of the brain shut off or change we slowly forget what we knew at birth. Then we spend the rest of our life on earth learning those things all over again. I think there is something in us that knows there is something we should remember, but can't seem to place it and we really want to figure out what it is.

An interesting book realted to this is "Cosmic Consciousness." It was written around 1900. It is quite fascinating.

Ok, I am rambling again. lol While I am rambling, I must tell about a funny. A few weeks ago my little 6 yr old Callico was at my friend's house being babysat. Calli really loves dinosaurs and wanted the other kids to play them too, but everyone else wanted to color. My friend suggested that her dinosaur could color too. Calli looked at her with mild exasperation and said, "No, he can't color because he doesn't have opposable thumbs."

[I'm Murrin]

I'm driven to learn. That's why I'm studying physics. Thing is, I have no desire at all to work in the field once my degree is over - I'm doing this to learn about something I find interesting, not because I want spend my life doing this work. I've always had a desire to learn more about everything, to know how everything works. I don't know why, it's just how I am.

As for 'Knowledge without purpose'? Well, I suppose that's what this is. I don't want to do anything with what I learn - I learn for the sake of learning. I suppose it's a kind of self-fulfillment. The pursuit of knowledge isn't meaningless as long as it has meaning to me.

[Loredoctor]

The search for knowledge is basically an urge which stems from two sources; both of which can be understood in the context of evolutionary psychology. Our ancestors had complex brains which were better able at figuring out the environment and performing probability calculations for finding food, avoiding harm and detecting deception in the community. Hence, why we today try to work out the world - it's an extension of the survival mechanism. People implicitly despise stupidity (in themselves) because in some sense it undermines the survival mechanism; but in today's society, stupidity or laziness of thought can be tolerated given that we have high levels of technology, and social support.

The second source, which is really part of the urge to understand the environment, is the urge for power (to quoute Nietzsche). Being better able to work out the environment (social and physical) - to reason - allows one to act more effectively. Knowledge therefore is power to better survive a dangerous environment or to manipulate the social world.

[Kinslaughterer]

Why not?




I've got nothing better to do...I don't need to forage for food. I'm an archaeologist so I attempt to interpret the past from the material remains of perhistoric humankind. I must try to find the bridge between the static physical record and ancient human dynamic behavior. Is this a futile act? Do I contribute to society in such a way that benefits others or at least represents an equal measure of work for reward? I don't know...

I'm also quite abit like Syl in terms of "useless" knowledge. I try to learn everything I can and develop the capacity to teach others properly. One could argue the nature of knowledge is such that it increases understanding exponentially.

Modern primates have been naturally selected for intelligence or rightly problem solving abilities. Part of problem solving is learning and memory, realizing cause and effect and so on.

So in conclusion my answer is "why not?"

[Fist and Faith]

No time to read the responses at the moment. (Battlestar Galactica will be on in about 3 minutes! ) But here's mine.

It is the nature of humans to learn. We can't not learn. It fulfills us in certain ways. Just as exercise makes us physically healthier, and therefore happier, exercising the mind makes us happier.

The problem is in thinking that there is some end result, some point where we will feel that we have learned all that must be learned, at which point we will feel complete. That goal changes the joy of learning into frustration.

[Khaliban]

Remember, knowledge is power and power corrupts, therefore knowledge corrupts, but you knew that.

[Tulizar]

In my high school mythology class we were discussing Icarus and his wax wings. The discussion focused on how Daedalus was able to construct wings and where he learned to do this (how did he anyway??) I guess things digressed a bit until we were questioning knowledge and why we learn and ultimately which type of knowledge is better--practical or useless.

My teacher told us that the key is to keep an open mind. Study the basics--the stuff that'll land you a job, allow you to function both socially and economically--as well as the peripherals--the useless stuff that makes life intriguing.
I also believe (as Avatar said) learning keeps the mind active. Pretty simple.

I make it a point to take in as much stuff as my tiny brain could handle. I'm not the brightest guy out there--I don't remember much of what I've learned, so I'll re-read things or study some more--but I feel compelled to learn. I don't think I've managed to find a balance between the practical and useless, but that is what drives me. I might be satisfied because I know that Neil Armstrong stepped on the moon with his left foot first, but then I'll ask myself how I could know so little about US-China relations. So I'll read some articles, ask some questions until I'm satisfied then move onto something else.

I read anything and occasionally take a stab at writing. I enjoy working with my hands and consequently will never shy away from a mechanincal task that doesn't require some advanced degree in physics. Doing anything is important to me because my mind is active. Knowing that my mind could turn to mush from disuse is impetus enough for me to learn!



.

[Avatar]

Good posts guys, everybody.

Knowledge is useless only until such time as you need it. Then, it suddenly becomes inestimably valuable. And the thing is, nobody knows before hand what type of knowledge will become so valuable to them.

I too am of the opinion that the more you know, the better. I don't have to know it for any particular reason, I just like knowing things. Insatiably curious, knowledge feeds me in some way that I do not understand, but in which I recognise.

Excercising the mind does make us happier. And it makes our minds stronger as well. It's like a muscle. Lift mental weights.

--Avatar

[matrixman]

For those of us who have rejected the idea of a higher Power and of the afterlife, knowledge in and of itself can provide some satisfaction.

Yes, knowledge is satisfying for its own sake. And I for one don't "reject" the notion of a higher power or the afterlife, precisely because I don't really know. It would, of course, be satisfying to know either way: their existence or non-existence. Would such knowledge help me choose the best pair of socks? Nope. But it makes for great conversation pieces at parties and such.

Without information, without knowledge, we are less and are capable of less. Purpose is just another kind of knowledge.

Ooh. I like that!

Why do we have a desire to learn? We are made that way. Why do some people lack a desire? They were made to be that way despite natural programming. Simply we come into this world programmed to learn and in some the learning is encouraged to thrive, or the need is so great and sometimes people learn not to seek more knowledge.

I like that, too!

People implicitly despise stupidity (in themselves) because in some sense it undermines the survival mechanism; but in today's society, stupidity or laziness of thought can be tolerated given that we have high levels of technology, and social support.

That's definitely something to mull over.

The problem is in thinking that there is some end result, some point where we will feel that we have learned all that must be learned, at which point we will feel complete. That goal changes the joy of learning into frustration.

He cooked that up just 3 minutes before Galactica? Damn, he's good.

And as my blatant quoting shows, it's also satisfying to use the knowledgeable words of smart folks to speak for me.

[ChoChiyo]

I believe that life is the biggest, most complex jigsaw puzzle ever made. We have all these pieces--basically they cover the entire universe--and my search for knowledge and meaning and wisdom is equivalent to my sorting like pieces into piles and trying to find the border pieces so I can make sense of the middle.

There is a solution, an ultimate truth and reason to everything, and maybe if we all worked TOGETHER we could find it.

As things stand now, I'm pretty sure I'll never get the damn thing together before I die.

[Avatar]

I don't know that there is a solution, or an ultimate truth, or even if there is a reason. It's a lovely analogy, and one that I mostly agree with, except for that small part.

Niels Bohr once said that the opposite of a trivial truth was false, but the opposite of a great Truth was also True.

The truth is such a nebulous concept anyway. It's so different for all of us, on almost every level. True, here we share many of those levels, but ultimately, what is true is what you believe in. Even if you're the only person it's true for.

There doesn't have to be a reason either. And it doesn't bother me that there may not be.

As far as I, and honestly, probably most humans, are concerned, the purpose of the universe was to produce me. (Or you, or whoever is thinking it.) On a personal level, we certainly tend to act, or at least, are inclined to act, that way.

As Fist says, there is never going to be an end to learning, so we must make it an end in itself. Coming to terms with the extent of your own ignorance is never an easy thing. But we must, or drive ourselves mad.

--Avatar

[ChoChiyo]

See, I have to believe there is a supreme being and that we don't just end after this life, because, what kind of universe would produce something as delightful as Avatar and then just toss him away after 80 years or so?

Like the cycle of water or the tides or trees shedding and regrowing leaves, I think we continue....and all the learning enriches us.

Maybe being human is the larval stage of our being???

When we hit death, I think we're just barely getting started.

I'll watch for you in the afterlife, Avatar. I want to have some serious conversations about the meaning of life....well, then, I suppose they will have to be about the meaning of afterlife

Heh heh heh

[Avatar]

See, I have to believe there is a supreme being and that we don't just end after this life, because, what kind of universe would produce something as delightful as Avatar and then just toss him away after 80 years or so?

A random and arbitrary one? (Although thanks for the implied compliment. )

I'll watch for you in the afterlife, Avatar. I want to have some serious conversations about the meaning of life....well, then, I suppose they will have to be about the meaning of afterlife

If there is an afterlife in which it's possible to do so, I'll be only too glad to take you up on that. (I'll be the nebulous, insubstantial grey/black shadow )

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea that this isn't all that there is. But if it is, it won't bother me. For a start, I'll never know, and second, it's a good reason to make the most of the life that we have now. Enjoy it people, this may be all that you get.

Where did the idea for continued existence come from? It's not as though anybody has come back to say that the water is fine. I think it's down to the fact that humanity are such self-centred individuals.

They can't bear to think that the world will continue as normal after they are dead. That they will be forgotten in a short space of time. Hell, I don't like it either.

As far as I'm concerned, the world will implode at the moment of my death, and everything will be over. (Not really, it's just the solipsist in me talking. )

Like I said, I don't lose sleep over it.

--Avatar

[SoulQuest1970]

You know, Avatar, I look at it this way....

If there is a God/Creator and you do beleive then great! If there is no (insert name of deity here) and you beleive there is one, then there will be no one around and no need to feel embarrased. If there is no (insert name of deity here) and you don't beleive, then great! If there IS a (insert name of deity here) and you don't beleive then you will look pretty foolish when you find out there is one. How embarrassing.

I figure I can't lose by beleiving.

[I'm Murrin]

But given no evidence of the existence of a supreme being, there's nothing to feel foolish about, since you had no reason to think otherwise than you did.