Why did Morn think destroying Calm Horizons was important?

[nuk]

I recently reread the series, and I got confused about the importance Morn placed on destroying Calm Horizons. In C&O, Morn et. al. rediscover the anti-mutagen drug formula and broadcast it, starting with the VI system. She's worried that since CH has a sample of her blood with the drug in it, they could take the drug home, get it analyzed, and create new mutagens that wouldn't be stopped by it.
But given that they started broadcasting the formula in a system full of illegals, how long does she think it would take some Angus-alike to sell the formula to the Amnion anyway? (How much were the Amnion dependent on Billingate for illegal trade?) It seems like the only way humanity could hope to keep it secret from the Amnion would be to continue the status quo of keeping it for UMCPDA use only.
Am I missing something? Or is Morn too implant-addled to think clearly?

[Cail]

I haven't finished TDAGD yet, but I was wondering the same thing. After all, even without Morn's blood, they'd still have access to the formula, and it's not like the Amnion have any difficulty getting humans.

For the moment, I'll file this under plot Gap.

[variol son]

Morn wanted Calm Horizon's to be destroyed before it can send ifo about the mutagen immunity drug that the Amnion got from her blood back to Amnion space. They didn't have a sample previously as they never took a blood sample at Enablement Station, or so I beleive.

Later on, Morn realizes that it was too late as soon as the sample was taken, but at the time she thinks she can stop it.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[Cail]

True, but even without Morn's sample, the Amnion still have the formula, and can certainly get human blood. The more I think about it, the more foolish Vector's broadcast seems.

[Alynna Lis Eachann]

I can see what you mean... but here are some possibilities to consider:

1) How many Amnion ships are cruising illegal space anyway? Probably not that many, so once an illegal got a hold of the formula, he'd have to find an Amnion to sell it to. Takes time.

2) Even as an illegal, would you sell your best defence against the Amnion threat? If you make the drug for yourself and then sell it to Amnion, you're not going to get much protection out of it. I'll grant that there's always someone who'd sell their own soul and humanity out, but... see #1, and what an advantage it would be, to treat with the Amnion without having to fear being mutated at any moment...

3) Figuring out the mutagen, even with the formula and human victims, would take time... and while the Amnions are figuring out the old formula, humanity, knowing it is in their possession, is already working to improve it.

Time is the biggest factor in all of this. Weeks or months might pass before the formula, as broadcast, made it into Amnion hands... weeks or months more before a counteragent were developed. Destroying Calm Horizons bought humanity more time. It was also the biggest and most immediate threat to the formula's success... if Morn were too "addled," as nuk said, to think through the details, it would be the most obvious target for her to go after to control the formula's spread into Amnion hands.

All that having been said, I wouldn't have gone broadcasting the formula like that... a better idea might have been to tight-beam it toward Earth and/or the mining stations. Of course, survival for Morn and the crew wasn't assured at this point, so she wanted to get the formula out to as many people as she could in the event that Trumpet was destroyed. Remember, too, that half the point was that the cops weren't supposed to be dishonest... Morn felt that it was her duty to let everyone know how to defend themselves.

[Nathan]

Wasn't it so that the UMCP would lose their monopoly on the antimutagen? It wasn't just about defending from the amnion, it was also about giving a viable alternative to the corrupt cops who relied on the secrecy of the antimutagen to retain their stranglehold on humanity.

[Loredoctor]

Wasn't it so that the UMCP would lose their monopoly on the antimutagen? It wasn't just about defending from the amnion, it was also about giving a viable alternative to the corrupt cops who relied on the secrecy of the antimutagen to retain their stranglehold on humanity.

Yep, that's exactly it.

[variol son]

Wasn't it so that the UMCP would lose their monopoly on the antimutagen? It wasn't just about defending from the amnion, it was also about giving a viable alternative to the corrupt cops who relied on the secrecy of the antimutagen to retain their stranglehold on humanity.

Yep, that's exactly it.

That was the reason for Vector's broadcast, but not for destroying Calm Horizons. I'm sure Morn wanted to keep the ship from getting back to Forbidden space with knowledge of the mutagen-immunity drug that they got when they took her blood sample.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[Angus Thermopyle]

How could Morn have known that <i>Calm Horizons</i> was out of gap courier drones?

[Variol Farseer]

How could Morn have known that <i>Calm Horizons</i> was out of gap courier drones?

If it wasn't, humanity was sunk anyway. Vector Shaheed once told Morn that if she had only one possible chance of winning, she should act as if that chance were true. (He used an analogy from bridge: a bit of SRD's own life peeping into the books.)

There was no point in tight-beaming Vector's transmission, because the whole point was to spread the knowledge to people not controlled by the Dragon; and nobody knew just where they were. Besides, it was a radio transmission, not FTL. It would be decades before such a transmission could reach Earth, even if Trumpet had the transmitting power to make a message detectable at that range.

The advantage of the mutagen (for anyone but Holt Fasner) lay in making it known to as many humans as possible, for as long as possible, before the Amnion could figure out how to counter it. Both Vector's broadcast and the destruction of Calm Horizons were necessary steps to accomplish that. By themselves they might not be enough, but they were all that Morn could possibly do.

(As Gellis of Asgaroth said: 'Not the sort of plan I would choose out of a hundred alternatives, but for the last nag in the stable it’s not bad.')

[Loredoctor]

There was no point in tight-beaming Vector's transmission, because the whole point was to spread the knowledge to people not controlled by the Dragon; and nobody knew just where they were. Besides, it was a radio transmission, not FTL. It would be decades before such a transmission could reach Earth, even if Trumpet had the transmitting power to make a message detectable at that range.

I don't agree with that logic. All it takes is for one Gap-capable ship in the system where Trumpet transmitted the forumula to travel to other star systems with the knowledge. Therefore, technically, the transmission was 'faster than light'.

The advantage of the mutagen (for anyone but Holt Fasner) lay in making it known to as many humans as possible, for as long as possible, before the Amnion could figure out how to counter it. Both Vector's broadcast and the destruction of Calm Horizons were necessary steps to accomplish that. By themselves they might not be enough, but they were all that Morn could possibly do.

The transmission was more about exposing the Dragon's treachery and undermining the state of affairs between UMCP and the Amnion. Yes, the Amnion would eventually work out how to counter it, but humanity would develop an antidote. Again, the knowledge of the antidote (not the mutagen, as you write) was a political weapon.

[Variol Farseer]

I don't agree with that logic. All it takes is for one Gap-capable ship in the system where Trumpet transmitted the forumula to travel to other star systems with the knowledge. Therefore, technically, the transmission was 'faster than light'.

No, it wasn't. The ship was faster than light. But that FTL ship had to be physically present in the VI system, where the transmission occurred, in order to receive it. The actual radio transmission from Trumpet would not be received in any other star system for years, if ever.

[Loredoctor]

I don't agree with that logic. All it takes is for one Gap-capable ship in the system where Trumpet transmitted the forumula to travel to other star systems with the knowledge. Therefore, technically, the transmission was 'faster than light'.

No, it wasn't. The ship was faster than light. But that FTL ship had to be physically present in the VI system, where the transmission occurred, in order to receive it. The actual radio transmission from Trumpet would not be received in any other star system for years, if ever.

Read the post more carefully, VF. I know the signal cannot be FTL, but I was arguing that you were wrong in saying that the signal would take decades. Any FTL (Gap-capable) ship that received the signal could simply travel to another system and transmit the signal/forumula. So, the signal propagates faster than the original transmission. So therefore, the transmission gets to other star systems. Further, as the original signal travels out, any ship in deep space of the system would pick it up - whether it be light minutes or months out.

[Variol Farseer]

I don't agree with that logic. All it takes is for one Gap-capable ship in the system where Trumpet transmitted the forumula to travel to other star systems with the knowledge. Therefore, technically, the transmission was 'faster than light'.

No, it wasn't. The ship was faster than light. But that FTL ship had to be physically present in the VI system, where the transmission occurred, in order to receive it. The actual radio transmission from Trumpet would not be received in any other star system for years, if ever.

Read more post more carefully, VF.

You said the transmission was FTL, which was incorrect.

I know the signal cannot be FTL, but I was arguing that you were wrong in saying that the signal would take decades. Any FTL (Gap-capable) ship that received the signal could simply travel to another system and transmit the signal/forumula.

I repeat, the signal transmitted by Trumpet would take decades to reach Earth. I was responding to Alynna Lis Eachann's suggestion that the transmission could have been tight-beamed towards Earth or another station. That would have taken decades, even supposing that Trumpet's broadcasting equipment was powerful enough.

Edit: try and be more polite
- Loremaster

[Loredoctor]

You said the transmission was FTL, which was incorrect.

VF, this is not a place for an argument. I am not having a go at you - notice the smiley in my sentence earlier. So calm down, okay? I stated, the transmission was 'faster than light'. Note the inverted commas. I'm not an idiot, and I am an amateur astronomer as well as very very well read in astronomy. To be succint: I am aware that the transmission was not, and could never be, FTL. I placed it in inverted commas to be state that it was like the message was propagating - that the message was traveling FTL. I apologise for confusing you.

I repeat, the signal transmitted by Trumpet would take decades to reach Earth. I was responding to Alynna Lis Eachann's suggestion that the transmission could have been tight-beamed towards Earth or another station. That would have taken decades, even supposing that Trumpet's broadcasting equipment was powerful enough.

Your point was, in the post I first replied to:

There was no point in tight-beaming Vector's transmission, because the whole point was to spread the knowledge to people not controlled by the Dragon; and nobody knew just where they were. Besides, it was a radio transmission, not FTL. It would be decades before such a transmission could reach Earth, even if Trumpet had the transmitting power to make a message detectable at that range.

Here you make it quite clear that there was no point because they couldn't spread the knowledge as the signal was not FTL. Well, as I stated, the message would have travelled FTL. Ergo, there was a point. Ships would simply cross the gap with the formula and spread it. Earth would receive the signal in days, not decades.

[Avatar]

I gotta say that although the confusion is understandable, I think I know what LoreMaster means there.

If that one FTL-capable ship was present to recieve the message, within that system, the message would become known by the crew, who would travel at FTL speeds, taking the content of the message with them, effectively making it the same as if the message itself was travelling FTL.

Thus even the possibility that it may have been recieved makes it worthwhile to broadcast it. If recieved, the other ship would perform the same function as a transmitter, by spreading that message, (Faster than Light).

--Avatar

(Edited for additional clarity)

[Loredoctor]

Thanks, Avatar.

[Avatar]

No worries. I have a rare talent for figuring out what people actually mean, from what they say, without getting too involved in the way that it's said.



--A

[Loredoctor]

HAHA!

[Skeletal Grace]

Since this thread somewhat touches upon one of the very few flaws I can find in the Gap series, I will make an attempt of pointing it out.

I didn't have a problem with Morn's reasons for wanting to destroy Calm Horizons, neither did I have a problem with Vector's need to broadcast the formula.

Morn wanted to kill the Amnion's very knowledge of the existence of the formula so not to give them the "head's up", even if the Amnion didn't have the formula itself, or her blood sample from Billingate. If they indeed had the formula or her blood, then all the more reason in her mind to eradicate CH from all starmaps. She just didn't want to risk the Amnion getting a head start on countering something human space was yet to learn.
She could not possibly know the Amnion used instantaneous crystal transmissions that would already have "broadcasted" such an idea to the Union/Mind.

Vector (and the gang) wanted the formula out in the public before it was shut down again. This was feasibly the only way they could do that, frantically screaming it into the void - hoping it sooner or later ended up somewhere it could root. Remember... Vector's research was shut down and put under lock and key the first time around and they knew they were hunted by everyone and their mothers... Broadcasting the formula was to them like being stranded on a deserted island and throwing a bottled message into the ocean while praying for the best. No matter what their outcome would be, the research would not have been for nothing...

The whole problem I have with the political intrigues and conspiracy theories of the mutagenes in this series is this:

According to some galactical rule of thumb, the only way the Amnion could ever "win" an inter-stellar war with human space would be to "make Amnion indistinguishable from human" so to infiltrate and slowly mutate the earth's population. Right? That's why they are hauling ass all over space to get hold of Davies... He's they key to making that missing link between Amnion and human.

Why bother?

The Amnion already has the mutagen which transforms humans to Amnion on a delayed time release. These humans stay human, think human, look human and interact with humans and only become Amnion if they don't carry out their masters' wishes and are thereby denied the temporary antidote.

Hell... If the Amnion can already do that, why bother making Amnion look human? They already have humans to do their dirty work for them. If they hired on a dozen Soruses and let them loose on earth injected with the dormant mutagenes to keep them in check, they could mutate whole continents with the exponential rate of wildfire. Especially since they also had now developed an airborne mutagene for more efficient use...

Why risk a war they were not prepared for with Earth by chasing a pointless genetical boon across the stellar wastelands when they could just have taken the original Sorus-idea to the next level?

Especially considering how practical the Amnion are about things...

Also... A minor detail, but nonetheless perplexing: When Davies finally boards the Amnion vessel as a trade for Earth's survival, why does the Amnion reception committe immediately try to inject him with mutagenes? I thought the whole point was to study HIM and the effect the transplanted mind had on HIM as a human... Not him as an amnion... His mind would be gone like Milos' humanity had dissipated only days before and they would have learned nothing.

Am I wrong?

Am I right?

Discuss.

The Gap series is in my opinion the best thing Donaldson ever wrote and I will gladly read it an umpteenth time to finally see the big picture, unless something comes out of this discussion.