I just watched ROTS

[Revan]

Yeah, that's in a New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back...

[dlbpharmd]

Right, Luke's loses his father's light saber in the duel with DV in TESB.

[CovenantJr]

As I recall, the lightsabre in the original version of A New Hope was actually white, and it was a fairly rubbish special effect. The recent versions changed it to blue to match Empire. Though the green one in Jedi is never explained in the films, the general consensus seems to be that Luke built it.

If anyone has the old, unmodified version of A New Hope, feel free to correct me on the white lightsabre. I could be wrong, I just remember being struck by the whiteness because I saw it after Empire and was expecting it to be blue.

[duchess of malfi]

I do have that video, and I will try to get back with you about that in the next few days (am going out of town, probably won't have time to watch it until next week.)

[dlbpharmd]

Though the green one in Jedi is never explained in the films, the general consensus seems to be that Luke built it.

When Luke is captured by the Imperials on Endor and presented to DV, his lightsaber is given to DV, who says something like "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber. You're skills are now complete."

[Seafoam Understone]

Luke built his own lightsaber for ROTJ as Vader comments when Luke is brought to him as a prisoner.

Vader: I see you have constructed a new lightsaber. Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has forseen.

I'm almost done with the book and haven't seen the movie. But even in the book the plot holes are big enough and deep enough to rappel down into them.

One of the things I thought about is the fact that the lightsaber duels will seem to slow down if a person sits through all six films at once. Vader/Kenobi's duel are (probably) blindingly fast with the ROTS where as 20 sumpthin odd years later they're relatively slow and at times clumsy, getting slower in our old age are we eh Jedis?? Yet of course the way the New Hope was filmed and technology back then....

I still have a big huge bunch of pet peeves with the prequels and have stated them in another post elsewhere in the forum's archives, so I won't redux them here.

Newest ones have emerged... In ROTJ Luke asks Leia what she remembers about her mother. She states that she doesn't remember much... "she died when I was very young." Luke prods her and she says that "she was very beautiful but sad." To me this implies that Padame died when Leia was about ohh, I dunno, four or five yrs old (earth time). This would make sense given that a child that young would have these vauge memories of a loved one.
Someone I talked to who is a HUGE fan of the prequels said that when the Jedi twins were born Luke had his eyes closed and Leia's eyes were opened so that she was able to see her mother and have the memory implanted into her brain. Now I don't know about you but I'll be damned if I can remember the first five minutes of MY life on this planet let alone anything beyond two or three years of age. My friend of course conviently argued that because Leia was imbuded with the force she was able to have the insight and knowledge that this is her mother and that she was able to disconcern her emotional state. Geez having just given a difficult birth to twins and STILL feel sad that your husband and your babies father is going around killing people and being the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. Wow!
Of course it seems that human biology doesn't fit in here as research has shown that newborn babies are basically light blind, meaning that everything is a big hazy blur and that weeks/months later babies eyes haven't adjusted to "flip" images perceived by the brain to what we call right side up. So physicially it's impossible for Leia to have even SEEN her mother let alone remember her.
Explaining THAT to my friend then they recanted saying it was Bail Organa's wife/ Leia's adopted mother who was SAD and died when she was very young. Of course my friend should've been glad that I didn't have a lightsaber of my own because I would've decapitated him on the spot for being so argumentaively stupid.

Another peeve. In "A New Hope" Obi-wan specifically tells Luke that "A young Jedi by the name of Darth Vader, he was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil. ...He hunted down and destroyed the Jedi Knights..."

From my reading of the novel it doesn't seem that he kills any Jedi's except those in the academy/temple. Sure he killed a lot of them but didn't go around the galaxy hunting them down and killing them. The Clones did that more or less.

The impressions given by the original trilogy have seemingly been forgotten by the prequels. Thus encouraging my belief that Lucas did NOT write the original story.

Lucas is a good director, has a good camera eye and understands action.
He just sucks as a writer/thinker/creator. He took a great opera and ran with it but somewhere along down the line he jumped off the track and started running nilly-willy through the fields.

Totally agree that the young Anakin would've been better had they implied that he was a bitter young kid hardened by a cruel master (that Cheech Marin sounding Watto) and that he should've been a mean kid, surly and all that. No he was this sweet widdle boy who was good with his hands. But then Anakin would've been more BELIEVABLE if he was cast by Hayden Christensen at the age he appears in Clones. Being a surly teenager and about the right age for Padame in Phantom. The age differences are WAY too great as it stands now.

A friend of mine who is a mother goes nuts whenever she thinks about the plot hole of Anakin's mother letting him go at 9 years old with a complete stranger! Jedi or not I mean what mother in her right mind would? Oh wait! She was a slave and thus had no choice and would rather prefer her son who is freed to be away from the cruel and mean Watto.
I go nuts when I think about the line "...There was no father." by Anakin's mother when questioned by Qui Gonn. What, the chosen one is supposed to be some sort of Messianic figure??

Lastly "The Chosen One" Supposedly to bring "balance to the Force."
Just what does that supposed to mean anyway. Not that Anakin/Vader succeeded did he? Balance of what? Good and Dark sides? If that were so then Vader should've been a good guy some of the time shouldn't he? Kinda like, helping an old lady across a busy street... then slicing her in half with his saber.

Seems to me that Luke fits the title "Chosen One" because he was able to handle the dark side emotions while still doing the right thing by refusing to kill his father and deny Sidious a new apprentice. Almost a Dune-like plot line of Paul Atraties being the "chosen-one" in his macroverse or whatever.

Thanks for the forewarned "NOOOOOO!" with Anakin realizing he's trapped in this shell. I agree a long inarticulate scream of pain/anger/fear/horror would've been better. They could've made a scene where the emperor yanks off the face mask of Vader and hold up a mirror to the horribly scarred Anakin saying

"You'd rather go around looking like THIS? HUH? HUH? Quit yer bitchin boy and get to likin this suit! I paid big bucks to the tailor and this is how you repay me... Noooooo... whiny little whelp!"

SIGH
At least it's all over with and we can get on with our lives.

The Clone Wars Cartoons are not bad by the way. Hokey in a lot of spots but hey not a bad script.

[dlbpharmd]

One of the things I thought about is the fact that the lightsaber duels will seem to slow down if a person sits through all six films at once. Vader/Kenobi's duel are (probably) blindingly fast with the ROTS where as 20 sumpthin odd years later they're relatively slow and at times clumsy, getting slower in our old age are we eh Jedis?? Yet of course the way the New Hope was filmed and technology back then....

Yeah, one of my pet peeves as well, especially the Kenobi/DV duel in ANH.

What, the chosen one is supposed to be some sort of Messianic figure??

Of course he is, why does this bother you? All great Sci-fi/fantasy have messianic figures - LOTR, Dune just to name a few. And the implication is that Anakin was conceived by the midi-chlorians and directed by Darth Plagus. That should've been delved into a little bit better, if that's what GL had in mind.

[Loredoctor]

No, I think Palpatine orchestrated it. But why?

[Avatar]

Lastly "The Chosen One" Supposedly to bring "balance to the Force."
Just what does that supposed to mean anyway. Not that Anakin/Vader succeeded did he? Balance of what? Good and Dark sides? If that were so then Vader should've been a good guy some of the time shouldn't he? Kinda like, helping an old lady across a busy street... then slicing her in half with his saber.

I think that Annakin was indeed intended to bring balance to the Force, and that he succeeded as well. Afterall, after thousands of years of Jedi supremacy, the balance of the Force had clearly been tipped too far toward the Light Side. The rise of the Dark Side redressed that imbalance, with Luke coming after, perhaps to "fine-tune" it.

--A

[variol son]

Have just seen the film, so I thought I'd add some impressions.

I actually felt that the murder of the Jedi was the most (perhaps only) poignant part of the whole film. And had Lucas kept a consistant Jedi High Council throughout the three prequels, then it would have been even more emotional to watch them all get killed. For some reason it just moved me.

It was also pretty well directed, and there wasn't a lot of dialogue, meaning not as much chance to cheese it up. Better yet, Hayden Christiansen and Natalie Portman were barely present. Thank gods.

Might go and read the book now.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[duchess of malfi]

The movie is good --the book is better -- and perhaps the key moment of all -- the realization that Yoda has during his fight with Palpatine which causes him to withdraw -- and which changes the Jedi forever -- doesn't even make it into the movie. Fisty has a quote of it someplace in this thread.

[CovenantJr]

When Luke is captured by the Imperials on Endor and presented to DV, his lightsaber is given to DV, who says something like "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber. You're skills are now complete."

Luke built his own lightsaber for ROTJ as Vader comments when Luke is brought to him as a prisoner.

Thanks to both of you for reminding me of that.

Vader/Kenobi's duel are (probably) blindingly fast with the ROTS where as 20 sumpthin odd years later they're relatively slow and at times clumsy, getting slower in our old age are we eh Jedis?? Yet of course the way the New Hope was filmed and technology back then....

It's a little odd, but I actually prefer the duels in the original trilogy. True, they're less spectacular, but that just makes them more convincing to me.

Another peeve. In "A New Hope" Obi-wan specifically tells Luke that "A young Jedi by the name of Darth Vader, he was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil. ...He hunted down and destroyed the Jedi Knights..."

This was one of the things I was really looking forward to when I found out prequels were going to be made. I wanted to see the bleakness and horror of Vader hunting down and exterminating the Jedi in ones and twos over the course of years. Ok, I didn't want to watch the whole process, but you know what I mean.

Lastly "The Chosen One" Supposedly to bring "balance to the Force."
Just what does that supposed to mean anyway. Not that Anakin/Vader succeeded did he? Balance of what? Good and Dark sides? If that were so then Vader should've been a good guy some of the time shouldn't he? Kinda like, helping an old lady across a busy street... then slicing her in half with his saber.

There actually is a reasonable explanation for this that didn't even occur to me until I read an interview with one of the crew of ROTS (Producer? Director? Whichever one isn't Lucas.) I always just assumed Qui-Gon got it wrong, but this bloke pointed out that Anakin did bring balance to the Force (ie elimate the cloud of Dark Side-ness that is obscuring everything) when he killed the Emperor in ROTJ - it's just that no-one expected things to get a lot worse before they got better.

[Avatar]

...Anakin did bring balance to the Force (ie elimate the cloud of Dark Side-ness that is obscuring everything) when he killed the Emperor in ROTJ - it's just that no-one expected things to get a lot worse before they got better.

An excellent point as well. (Even if I prefer my interpretation. )

--A

[Worm of Despite]

...Anakin did bring balance to the Force (ie elimate the cloud of Dark Side-ness that is obscuring everything) when he killed the Emperor in ROTJ - it's just that no-one expected things to get a lot worse before they got better.

That's what I thought--that Anakin did bring balance by doing that. I mean, Lucas said the story is more about Anakin/Vader and his redemption than anything else.

[Warmark Jay]

I liked RoTS, warts and all, but the prequels as a whole annoy me - simply because they serve to remind us of Lucas' clumsy attention to the details of his own story. The Rolling Stone website has posted an interview with GL, done shortly after the initial release of the original "Star Wars" (before it became "Episode IV - A New Hope"; in the first release of the film, that subtitle does not appear in the opening crawl), and it seems to indicate (based on Lucas' own comments) that Vader being Luke's father was an idea that surfaced during the plans for "Empire". From the interview:

(Lucas on the origin of Vader): It was a whole part of the plot that essentially got cut out. It may be in one of the sequels.

What's the story?

It's about Ben and Luke's father and Vader when they are young Jedi knights. But Vader kills Luke's father, then Ben and Vader have a confrontation, just like they have in Star Wars, and Ben almost kills Vader. As a matter of fact, he falls into a volcanic pit and gets fried and is one destroyed being. That's why he has to wear the suit with a mask, because it's a breathing mask. It's like a walking iron lung. His face is all horrible inside. I was going to shoot a close-up of Vader where you could see the inside of his face, but then we said, no, no, it would destroy the mystique of the whole thing.

It's a pretty interesting read: www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/73 ... egion=blob

The impressions given by the original trilogy have seemingly been forgotten by the prequels. Thus encouraging my belief that Lucas did NOT write the original story.

There's plenty of material that indicates that Lucas made a lot of this stuff up as the movies were filmed - and that he didn't have a set idea as to how the OT would turn out, much less the prequels. I think that he had a "rough sketch" of the backstory; the "Star Wars" novel (excellently ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster) includes a synopsis of Palpatine's rise - but also states that Vader was not the ONLY Dark Lord of the Sith running around at the time of "A New Hope". Vader himself is Tarkin's lackey in the film and the novel - which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, given that the other films clearly establish the Emperor's apprentice as answering only to him. And when you look at the budding romance between Luke and Leia (in "A New Hope" and later embellished on in the novel "Splinter of the Mind's Eye", authorized by Lucas and written by Foster), it's pretty clear that the brother-sister thing was written in when "Empire" and "Jedi" were on the drawing boards.

I don't really fault him for this - "Star Wars", after all, was a huge gamble, and there was no guarantee that it was going to be the definitive movie that it became. What bugs me is Lucas' strange revisionism, when speaking to the media, about his Grand Plan for the movies. Ah well - we all know that Greedo shot first, even when he ultimately didn't.

[Worm of Despite]

Just watched Sith for a 2nd time. Enjoyed it even more and saw some stuff I missed on the first run through. Lucas definitely packed a lot into it, to be sure!

Also: on second viewing, Vader's "no" wasn't as half as bad as the first viewing. In fact, I didn't mind it at all, this time. I think it was the initial shock of him screaming like that that bothered me the first time; this time, of course, there was no such a surprise.

[Loredoctor]

Sifa Dyas = Sidious? Coincidental names?

[dlbpharmd]

Yes, just a coincidence. Master Sifa Dyas was actually a member of the Jedi Council, IIRC.

[Lord Mhoram]

Haven't seen it yet, but General Grievous looks kinda cool...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Grievous

[Loredoctor]

Yes, just a coincidence. Master Sifa Dyas was actually a member of the Jedi Council, IIRC.

Ahh that's right. Thanks.