Christians - a lengthy rant.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:43 am

dennis,
I think maybe I know what Plissken has in mind. I live near New Paltz, NY. Last year, the mayor made national headlines by marrying many gay couples. Fred Phelps' clan of filth showed up. www.recordonline.com/archive/2004/04/05/jhphelps.htm
Odds are some of the people who were there to support the marriages were Christians of strong faith, but the only "Christians" there as a group were the evil #$%@^. Of course, if you lived nearby, you might not have imagined they would be showing up. But now that you know they will be at these kinds of events, a group of your kind of Christian could be there too, showing that Phelps doesn't represent Christianity. And I'll bet there would be stories about that that didn't focus on the event itself.

Post by **drew** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:18 am

It's a shame that people can hide their hatred and fears behind Chritianity.

Post by **Cybrweez** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:18 pm

drew wrote:..well, you remembered it.

haha, good point. And God does too. I guess that should be the only thing that matters anyway.

Post by **Plissken** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:25 pm

dennisrwood wrote:Plissken: i do stand up for myself. it was real fun when the papers were tolling the death bell over the pedophile priests. i was damn angry at Cardinal Law and let folks know it, but i also spoke about the real numbers and how we needed to handle it. i believe on this board i have done a good job of defending my beliefs and my church. i'm not sure what else you would have me do? but i was talking in a broader context. if nightline runs a biased piece slamming religion, other than sending an e-mail, or writing a letter, what can i do? i already witness to everyone i know, at risk of my job sometimes. so tell me what else i need to be doing, or explain how i'm missing your point.

Well Fisty's not wrong, but to put it a little straighter - instead of (or in addition to) worrying about the results of the bias you percieve, why not go after the cause of it? Everytime there's a group of bigots out using your name, get a bigger and louder group out on the field to promote your Christian values.

If the only one with the bullhorn is a bigot, then a bigot is all you hear.

Post by **Edge** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:52 pm

Plissken wrote: If the only one with the bullhorn is a bigot, then a bigot is all you hear.

An excellent point.

The conclusion I'm coming to is that, in a general sense, we (Christians) need to use that bullhorn, but use it correctly.

To illustrate: When Phelps goes on his 'God hates fags' rant, we need to send out a clear message that contradicts his hatemongering. And that message shouldn't just be 'Phelps is an idiot', but a loud and clear 'God loves gays!'.

The point I'm fumbling towards, is that we can't dispel the negative effect those people have on the general perception of Christianity just by saying 'they're wrong'. That's what people like Texe Marrs have built whole 'ministries' on, 'proving' why the Catholic Church and Billy Graham, etc. etc. are wrong.

Instead of relying on a double negative, we should be sending out a loud positive! We don't want to foster hatred toward Phelps, et al; we want to foster love for our fellow human!

Does that make sense?

Post by **drew** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:15 pm

That makes more sence than you know!

I'll one-up you, the sign should read:

God Loves Gays, and Phelps, and You and Me.

Post by **Edge** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:24 pm

drew wrote: I'll one-up you, the sign should read:

God Loves Gays, and Phelps, and You and Me.

I like it!

Post by **Plissken** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:56 pm

Edge wrote:
Plissken wrote: If the only one with the bullhorn is a bigot, then a bigot is all you hear.
An excellent point.

The conclusion I'm coming to is that, in a general sense, we (Christians) need to use that bullhorn, but use it correctly.

To illustrate: When Phelps goes on his 'God hates fags' rant, we need to send out a clear message that contradicts his hatemongering. And that message shouldn't just be 'Phelps is an idiot', but a loud and clear 'God loves gays!'.

The point I'm fumbling towards, is that we can't dispel the negative effect those people have on the general perception of Christianity just by saying 'they're wrong'. That's what people like Texe Marrs have built whole 'ministries' on, 'proving' why the Catholic Church and Billy Graham, etc. etc. are wrong.

Instead of relying on a double negative, we should be sending out a loud positive! We don't want to foster hatred toward Phelps, et al; we want to foster love for our fellow human!

Does that make sense?

Makes sense to me!

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:18 am

Exactly! If you assume a Phelps-like group will be somewhere, maybe you'll want to go also, so people there don't see only their twisted view of Christianity, and think they represent all Christians.

What you do is: wave signs of God's love; sing songs of God's love; if anyone asks what your group is doing there, tell them about God's love.

What you don't do is: criticize Phelps' views, even if asked; even think about arguing with them, unless you believe God is about arguing; give any sign that you know Phelps is there, even if taunted.

This isn't just to drive them crazy, and it hopefully will. It's 1) to show what your God is all about, and 2) to take away their weapon, which is confrontation.

Post by **Plissken** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:08 am

Of course, from my point of view, if you wanted to do a little dance on Phelps's head, while singing "Onward, Christian Militia" or whatever, that'd be fine as well...

Post by **Iryssa** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:08 am

Excellent points, all...incidentally, I just read Proverbs 25:21&22 which says:
"If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat;
if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head,
and the LORD will reward you."

Though it's not like he's our enemy per se, it still makes sense...

Post by **Avatar** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:29 am

Plissken wrote:Of course, from my point of view, if you wanted to do a little dance on Phelps's head, while singing "Onward, Christian Militia" or whatever, that'd be fine as well...

ROTFLMAO!

Seriously though, I think some good points are being made. It's not to say it'll change anybodies minds, but at least it can change the perception of christians for the better.

--Avatar

Post by **drew** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:14 am

Excellent quote Isyssa. (Canadians are so Great)

To take that a step further; if we treated our enemies like our friend, how many enimies will we be left with?

Post by **Avatar** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:59 am

An excellent question Drew.

--Avatar

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:13 am

Lao Tzu says to reward bitterness with care.

Post by **ChoChiyo** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:39 am

Fist and Faith wrote:dennis,
I think maybe I know what Plissken has in mind. I live near New Paltz, NY. Last year, the mayor made national headlines by marrying many gay couples. Fred Phelps' clan of filth showed up. www.recordonline.com/archive/2004/04/05/jhphelps.htm

That article was about the most heartwarming thing I've seen in the news EVER.

THIS, I believe is what Jesus meant about turning the other cheek.

Those idiots sow hatred. The people sowed love.

Love will always win over hate. It is impossible for it to be any other way.

My heart swells with love for all the good people I have met here.

Come'ere for a big group cuddle!

Post by **drew** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:40 am

**joins Cho's group hug.

Post by **Plissken** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:55 pm

May I have hugs too, please?

Post by **ChoChiyo** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:47 pm

everyone gets a hug.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:16 am

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Christians - a lengthy rant.