Apple vs. Wintel

[Cail]

OK folks, the time has come for a new home computer. I've got a 3-year-old Dell P4 running at 2.53ghz. It still runs OK, but needs to be completely reformatted to clean 3 years of garbage off it. I'll probably move it to the basement for my daughter, and get something new for here (upstairs). The computer is mostly used for web access and email, with some gaming, some music, a lot of digital photography, and a fair amount of MS Office use.

But I hate Windows. My machine is dog slow, and I blame the OS. I've used Macs and ame in awe of how quick and smooth they are. I understand they're more expensive, but it's worthwhile if that means throwing off the Microsoft/Intel yoke. The caveat is that I need to be able to use the same software that I'm using now, but I'm assuming that just about everything available for the PC is available for the Mac.

What're everyone's thoughts?

[Avatar]

This is sure to open a can of worms.

For what it's worth, I hate Mac's. Ok, I've had a PC since I was ten, (used to boot up on a DOS 2.3 floppy--no hard drive) and only used a Mac for the first time three years ago. I find Mac's clumsy and counter-intuitive. I hate not having a context-sensitive menu (the right-click menu). And I don't like the way games play on them.

I guess that most things for the PC are available for Macs, but certainly not all of them, but I just don't like them.

But as I said, I'm biased

--Avatar

[matrixman]

I build my own PCs as a hobby, so my bias is also pretty clear. There's a nice sense of satisfaction to be had from putting a PC together and making it work.

An acquaintance of mine who is a real hardcore PC nuts-and-bolts guy likes to joke that Macs are for people who don't want to learn anything about computers. Maybe that seems harsh, but I see some truth in that.

When you buy from Apple, you're buying the convenience and stability of a closed, proprietary platform, and that's perfectly fine for many people. Of course, you're paying extra for the convenience of Apple's tight-fisted quality control that ensures everything you run on or connect to a Mac does so smoothly, and there's nothing wrong with that either.

It's your money, so do as you please. (shrugs politely)

[Cail]

Thanks guys. I have no interest in how the computer runs, and will never do any "hard" computing or programming, so the closed system is really not an issue.

I've owned PCs forever, and I know ay more than I want to about how to put them together and keep them running.

[Damelon]

I've had a Mac now for 2 years. At the time I got it they had a deal where they'd throw in Microsoft Office for Mac. Word and Excel are much easier to use on a Mac than on Windows.

An interesting observation by your friend MM. That, I guess kind of describes me. I don't like screwing around with the machine. I just want it to do what I need it to do, and I can do that on the Mac. The main reason I got it though was I was tired of constantly worring about some 19 yr old in Bulgaria writing a virus that would take my system down.

[Cail]

That's my point of view as well. If I want to tinker with something I've got a bunch of guitars and my car. I want the computer do do what I need it to with the least amount of futzing around.

[aTOMiC]

Go for it Cail. I'm a PC guy but I've heard nothing about Macs that would prevent me from buying one if I could ever round up enough cash. If its the OS that really bugs you about a PC there is one possible option beyond microsoft and that is.......Linux. I've tried Linux and I found it very interesting. The installation was fairly simple and there is a host of open source programs available most of which do a pretty good job of replacing microsoft. However I wouldn't recomend Linux for anyone that doesn't like to tinker with settings and software. Sounds to me like a Mac is just what you are looking for.

[Avatar]

Frustrating as it can be, I still love the tinkering and tweaking that you have do do on a PC. I've been hearing very good things about the open source Linux platforms that are becoming available.

I wonder if one day soon, everything will be open-source. (Hope so.)

--A

[Cail]

The money's the kicker. I can get an awesome Dell for $1300-$1500, and a similar Apple will run close to twice that. But, if it cuts the amount of swearing at the computer, it may be worth it.

[Variol Farseer]

This is sure to open a can of worms.

For what it's worth, I hate Mac's. Ok, I've had a PC since I was ten, (used to boot up on a DOS 2.3 floppy--no hard drive) and only used a Mac for the first time three years ago. I find Mac's clumsy and counter-intuitive. I hate not having a context-sensitive menu (the right-click menu). And I don't like the way games play on them.

I guess that most things for the PC are available for Macs, but certainly not all of them, but I just don't like them.

But as I said, I'm biased

--Avatar

You certainly are. Actually, the right-click menu is completely standard in Mac OS X, and works just like it does in Windows. What isn't standard is the two-button mouse, but any USB mouse on the market will work correctly with a Mac.

If you find Macs counterintuitive, it is because you have developed your intuitions by using Windows, which is a comparatively difficult and clumsy system.

I remember when I was first setting up a Web server on a Mac OS X machine. A friend of mine, a Windows user, spent about half an hour tweaking this and editing that, trying to figure out how to make Apache run. I kept saying, 'Check the help files', but he wanted to figure it out his own way. Finally he gave up. I consulted the Mac Help database, and it told me exactly what to do:

1. Open up System Preferences and click Sharing.
2. Click Services.
3. Turn on Personal Web Sharing.

Total time required, less than 60 seconds -- including the time to find and read the instructions. But that's because I didn't expect it to work the same way as Windows.

As for games, you have a point. Most game publishers write for Windows first, because that's where the money is, and port to the Mac later. Because of the huge differences between the two hardware platforms, ported software almost never works well without a major rewrite, and most houses are too lazy to do that. So you have a program that is written in tight, well-optimized code for a Windows machine, translated into sloppy, thrown-together code for the Mac. Of course it's inferior. As a Mac user, this drives me nuts, but I understand why it happens.

[Variol Farseer]

The money's the kicker. I can get an awesome Dell for $1300-$1500, and a similar Apple will run close to twice that. But, if it cuts the amount of swearing at the computer, it may be worth it.

Given Dell's iffy quality record and the fact that they're stuck with Windows, I'd question whether there is such a thing as an awesome Dell.

The only desktop Mac that runs anywhere near $3000 nowadays is the Power Mac G5, a 64-bit, dual-processor workstation that is really overkill for most purposes. At least two of the world's most powerful supercomputers are built out of G5 Macs, and the people who built them chose Macs because they give more raw computing power per dollar than anything with Intel inside. Virginia Tech's G5-based supercomputer, when first built, cost about $5 million for processing power equal to about $10-15 million worth of Dells. (They have upgraded it since.)

If you want to test the waters of the Mac, I suggest you try a Mac mini. It's a fantastic little machine, and don't let the clock speed fool you: PowerPC chips do a lot more parallel processing than Intel designs or even AMD. A 1.25 GHz PowerPC chip is roughly equal to a 2 GHz P4 or the fastest Celeron for most purposes, and it consumes a lot less power. (The entire Mac mini draws less than 80 watts maximum.)

Don't get the base $499 model, though. Insist on at least 512 MB of RAM and a built-in DVD burner; that will put you at $674. The machine will work with any USB keyboard and mouse, and any DVI or VGA monitor.

But you probably won't want to take my advice once you see the iMac G5. I've talked to a lot of PC users lately about the new Macs, and while the Mac mini intrigues them, the iMac makes them drool. I think it's something about having a 20-inch widescreen LCD monitor with a computer tucked in behind it. The 20-inch model goes for $1899, but you'll want to add some extra memory. That's probably a bit more than you really want to spend, but it may be worth the money.

I'd suggest that you use the Mac, because of its virus-free record (nobody has ever written a virus that successfully attacks OS X), for everything you do on the Internet, plus any photo, music, video, or design stuff you happen to do. For general-purpose office-type work, either system works well, but the Mac is better at keeping your data safe and secret. MS Office for Mac is every bit as good as the Windows version in most respects, but unfortunately, it doesn't include Access. For games, you'll mostly want to stick with your Windows box; but if you only use Windows for games, viruses and malware won't matter so much.

As for software, I'd need to know in more detail what you're using now. There is a huge amount of software bundled free with every Mac, including several programs that really have no Windows equivalent. (GarageBand is too much fun to be legal.) Most of the Windows apps that the general public use are also available for the Mac (except MS Access, as I said). And most software houses will sell you an upgrade to the latest Mac version of a program you own for the same price as the latest Windows version. Since you would eventually want to upgrade anyway, this doesn't add to your long-term costs; it just means that you have to do a lot of programs at once.

Do please let me know if this interests you at all. I'd be glad to help you however I can in getting things set up.

[Cail]

Thanks V.F.! I'm actually headed out to the local Apple store today to check out the 20" iMac. I've checked into a fair number of 3rd party sites like CNet, and people seem to love the things. I have seen a few issues with reliability, do you know if that's been addressed?

Additionally, I'm running a Linksys 802.11g wireless system on my current Dell. Can I simply add another transmitter and network in the Mac so I can print from both machines, or do I need to use their "Airport" card?

[Variol Farseer]

'Airport' is 802.11g, so if you get an iMac with an Airport card, it will be fully compatible with your existing network.

I've heard a bit about these reliability issues. Mostly they seem to arise because the case design is actually rather finicky. People have reported strange noises, thermal problems, etc., etc., usually after opening the case themselves to add RAM or swap hard drives. The thermal problems can be rather serious sometimes. Airflow is crucial in a machine only 2 inches thick and crammed full of stuff, and if you don't fit the case back together just exactly right, it doesn't seal properly and the fans don't do their job. That appears to be the biggest single quality issue.

If you buy extra RAM and the Airport card at the same time as the computer, and get the Apple store to install them for you, they should be able to fit everything together nice and kentucky, minimizing the chance of any problems.

Then work that machine like samadhi on a stick for the first few weeks, so that any latent problems will show themselves early.

[Damelon]

So Cail, what did you decide to get?

[lurch]

..It may be obvious by now,,but I have finally set up a computor at home. Yes, now I can insinuate myself here from work and home. At work,,its a Dell unit on Windows XP...At home,,I chose the Mac G5..As noted elsewhere, set up wa sincredibly fast,,and,,since I have a guest house thus renter,,the Airport router is incredibly easy and so far ,,even with his computor up and running at full blast and myself busy with collecting all my favorites,,absolutely no noticedable difference in preformance...2 gb processing speed, 512 dram,etc,etc..wireless mouse and keyboard while not required,,i find nice to not have to deal with all the cords.

..Time will tell, but already in comparison with the Dell unit and Windows of work..I'm glad i chose the G5 for home..incredibly ease of use....MEL

[I'm Murrin]

So - what do people think of the news that Apple are going to start using Intel processors?

[Avatar]

MWHAHAHAHA!

--A