The moment when you heard about Runes...

Post by **Po77InAtOr** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:37 am

hmm... doesnt really work for me either. That's kind of Alien meets King Kong isn't it?

Post by **CovenantJr** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:45 pm

I'm pretty sure this one was done by a member of Kevin's Watch; a good effort, I just don't agree with the representations

:

Lord Mhoram's Victory, featuring UR-VILES (on the right)

Post by **Po77InAtOr** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:22 pm

hmm... that's pretty good, although I don't think I have read up to that part yet. They have kind of the Peter Jackson orc look to them, but it's very good nonetheless. And yes, that Cavewight was a good picture, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that just isn't mine

Also, I was wondering about when the ur-vile loremaster is fighting the lord whether the other ur-viles in the wedge are doing anything? It kind of gets mentioned but it seems more like the loremaster is doing all the fighting himself. Are the other ur-viles defending him from other attackers, or how does it work?

Thankyou once again for the pics

Post by **Warmark** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:48 pm

3) I sometimes find SRD's visual descriptions quite mind boggling. I don't have a problem with ur-viles, but to this day I have no idea what Revelstone looks like, and Cavewights are...indistinct. I can't help with locations of pictures, since I only know of one or two, and I disagree with them

i had a problem with this aswell untili found a picture of revelstone (a TPTP cover i believe) on SRDs website, it fits the description perfectly.
I think i posted the picture in the Pictures of Revelstone thread.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:36 pm

Hmm, I'll see if i can find it.

Po77InAtOr wrote:Also, I was wondering about when the ur-vile loremaster is fighting the lord whether the other ur-viles in the wedge are doing anything? It kind of gets mentioned but it seems more like the loremaster is doing all the fighting himself. Are the other ur-viles defending him from other attackers, or how does it work?

It's always seemed to me that they kind of pool all the raw power of the individual ur-viles, and channel it through the Loremaster. So he basically wields the concerted might of the whole wedge.

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:02 am

Yes, that was always the impression I had as well -- that they are all focused primarily on channeling their power to/through the leader.

Post by **Po77InAtOr** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:10 am

hmm...that would definately seem to make sense. thanks

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:59 am

I was reading these forums

and I was frickin excited.

Post by **danlo** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:42 am

I'm glad you explained that to him duchy--Po77InAtOr always looks so worried!

Post by **Po77InAtOr** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:31 am

If you're referring to my avatar then he has good reason to be worried. That's Jinky Johnson, the greatest football player of all time, and it was taken just before the European Cup final. I would be worried too!

If you're not referring to the picture then I am quite embarrassed

Post by **danlo** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:37 am

(silly me I always thought Steve Young was the greastest football player of all time!

)

Post by **Po77InAtOr** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:35 am

Haha, Steve Young ain't even the greatest AMERICAN football player of all time. That would go to Jim Brown, the RB

But I'm afraid this is slightly off topic and I think we're gonna get in trouble

Post by **Avatar** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:01 am

Right, but, IIRC, at the same time they are able to wield their smaller blades independantly, defending the flanks of the wedge.

--A

Post by **Po77InAtOr** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:16 am

I was wondering about something that I just read in Illearth Stone. It was just at the part when the armies meet at Doom's Retreat and Fleshharrower's army is trapped in the Retreat. I can't remember the exact quote but it said something about the ur-vile wedge breaking up in their panic and therefore being vulnerable to the arrows and stones coming from above. Does this imply that they have some kind of magical barrier around them when they are in the wedge, or is SRD simply stating that a tight formation in ANY battle is less vulnerable to attacks?

I don't think I have worded this question exactly how I meant, but I think you can get the general idea.

Post by **matrixman** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:13 am

This must be the passage you're referring to:

...the yammering of the ur-viles became fiercer, more desperate. In the narrow defile, they could not make effective use of their fighting wedges, and without that focus of power, they were vulnerable to arrows and spears and rockfalls. Caught in a seething, confused mass of wolves, the wedges began to collapse.

I've never interpreted the ur-viles as having a magic forcefield around themselves while in a wedge. I would go with your second statement, that a tight formation in any battle is less vulnerable to attack. The ur-viles' preferred type of formation simply happens to be a wedge--which happens to be very effective. I think the Lords could learn from the ur-viles. Can you imagine the firepower of a Lords' wedge? Of course, there would never be enough Lords to create such a formation.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:18 pm

I disagree. Re-examine that quote for a moment:

...the yammering of the ur-viles became fiercer, more desperate. In the narrow defile, they could not make effective use of their fighting wedges, and WITHOUT THAT FOCUS OF POWER, they were vulnerable to arrows and spears and ROCKFALLS. Caught in a seething, confused mass of wolves, the wedges began to collapse.

It's specifically stated that it's the wedge's function as a "focus of power" that protects them from harm. And I don't think any fighting formation, no matter how nifty, would be particularly avalanche-resistant.

Post by **matrixman** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:30 pm

You have a point there, CJ.

I always had the impression the other ur-viles in the wedge were simply deflecting enemy strikes with their own staves, rather than there being an actual deflective aura around the wedge.

You're right that an avalanche would make moot any kind of formation, unless there was something else to protect it. But is it really a defensive shield that the ur-viles have? I'm still not sure of that.

Post by **Warmark** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:34 pm

I never imagined any actual 'force-field'.
I took it to mean without being able to focus their power to the loremaster they lost their cohesion and so were easier to kill.

Post by **Po77InAtOr** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:56 pm

So basically what you're both kind of say is that the wedge is more protected because they can channel their power to the loremaster. So how effective (obviously this is just guess work) do you think that a single ur-vile would be in battle without the wedge? It seems through all this that ur-viles are ONLY effective with the support of the wedge, even the loremaster is fairly uneffective without his wedge. Am I sort of on the right track?

I know these questions may seem pointless, but I like to be able to imagine the battles in my head.

Post by **matrixman** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:47 am

Well, the only instance of a "lone" isolated ur-vile in all the Chronicles that I can recall was in Lord Foul's Bane, in Mt. Thunder when Covenant was ambushed by that hidden ur-vile trying to bite his ring off. All the other times we see ur-viles only in groups--always ready to form into an attacking wedge, I presume.

I don't think a single ur-vile would last too long in battle, but assuming that it has retained its stave, I'm guessing the ur-vile could still inflict some damage. And I guess it also depends on who the ur-vile is fighting. Against a Lord, the ur-vile is instant toast. Against a Bloodguard or a Ramen, a single ur-vile is also dead meat. That ur-vile might stand a better chance against an ordinary human warrior, who is not as nimble as a Bloodguard or Ramen and thus could get burned by the ur-vile's vitriol from its stave. But as long as the warrior has a shield and a good sword, I think he or she should still be able to easily take down one ur-vile.

Just my 2 cents.

I don't think your questions are pointless. You've made me think about things that I had sort of taken for granted.