Do You have Questions about Judaism as Praticed in the USA?

[Menolly]

I was pm'd earlier this week by a Watch member, who suggested I start a thread in this forum on Judaism. I pretty much declined, as:

1. I'm not a very Torah observant Jew
2. I only attended Hebrew school for a year, and am not very versed in the techincalities of the religion
3. I am intermarried, and although we am raising our son Jewish, some may find the fact that I don't have a Jewish husband objectionable
4. I am really only just beginning studying different aspects of Judaism, including what a traditional woman's role is, "kosher sex," and how I personally feel regarding this.
5. There are probably other Jewish Watchers much more qualified to do this

As I thought more about it though, and realized how many Watchers are from countries other than the USA, some probably with even smaller minorities of Jews than in the USA, I figure I could at least try to answer questions thrown my way, and do searches of sites such as Judaism 101 if I don't have an answer or opinion on a question. Although a minority in the USA, Jews are very integrated in our culture and I think I am sometimes ignorant of how little about how we live is known throughout the world.

I will say I do not wish to have to explain why I do not believe The Messiah has come yet, or any such biblical debate topics. Or if Israel has a right to exist, etc. But, if you have a question on a response I may have posted that strikes you of being influenced by my religious practice, or if something about Judaism in general puzzles you, feel free to post.

And while I despise debate, and generally avoid it at all cost, if there are other Jewish Watchers who disagree with my answers, I do wish to encourage you to post other POVs. After all, there are at least 10 different Jewish movements in the USA alone, and I know my answers will most likely only cover my personal POV.

So, I'll do my best. And if the thread is not of interest, let's just let it fade away.

[Dromond]

Thanks for throwing this out there, Menolly.

I've a question that has puzzled me a couple times over the years.

Traditionally, Jewish men don't trim their beards, I believe something in written law dictates this, i.e, old testament biblically. Penteauch (sp?)

Why don't Jewish men adhere to this law anymore? (mostly)

Or is it no longer Law... ala catholicism and meat on friday?


I am serious, and curious about this.
Thanks.

[Menolly]

Thanks for throwing this out there, Menolly.

I've a question that has puzzled me a couple times over the years.

Traditionally, Jewish men don't trim their beards, I believe something in written law dictates this, i.e, old testament biblically. Penteauch (sp?)

Why don't Jewish men adhere to this law anymore? (mostly)

Or is it no longer Law... ala catholicism and meat on friday?


I am serious, and curious about this.
Thanks.

It was never law to have a beard, the law is to not use a straight razor. 'Minhag' or custom, can take on the significance of law, and many of the Chasidim (ultra-orthodox) have the minhag of dressing in the clothes of the era and country from which their spiritual leaders came.

The significance of not shaving is explained well on shamas.org.

I hope that answers your question. It really is more a cultural decision than a halachic (law) one.

[Dromond]

I read the link and am well answered.

I always thought it was Jewish law, and now know otherwise.

Thank you, Menolly.

[Menolly]

b'vakasha (you're welcome)

[Plissken]

I've heard quite a few versions of the Original, "Mosaic" Ten Commandments over the years - with various translations of the actual wording. Care to give us a definitive interpretation of the Big 10?

[Menolly]

Definitive? Even within Judaism, the various movements in the USA translate the Hebrew differently.

I'm at work now, but when I get home I can post the translation from the TANACH I use. But I would call that far from a definitive interpretation.

[Menolly]

I'm at home now, with my Artscroll Stone Edition TANACH.

First, I feel compelled to make clear that Jews consider the 613 commandments of the Torah applicable only to Jews. Otherwise, the law of the land (in which one resides) governs actions. I bring this up because I remember a discussion in another forum during the American Presidential Election of 2000 about how Lieberman could be an observant Jew and still be pro-choice. So, an observant Jew can rule contrary to his religious beliefs in matters of civic law.

If a non-Jew feels compelled to observe Jewish law, they are encouraged to study and adhere to the Seven Noahide Laws. It is believed peace and civilization will be found if all followed these laws.

Here are the Ten Commandments, as written and commented on in my TANACH:

Exodus 20:2 I am HASHEM, your G-d, Who has taken you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery.
20:1-14. "When the Holy One, Blessed is He, presented the Torah at Sinai,
not a bird chirped, not a fowl flew, not an ox lowed, not an angel ascended, not a
seraph proclaimed kadosh, Holy. The sea did not roll and no creature made
a sound. All of the vast universe was silent and mute. It was then that the Voice
went forth and proclaimed, I am HASHEM, your G-d!" (Shemos Rabbah 29:9)

20:3 You shall not recognize the g-ds of others in My presence.
“20:2. First Commandment: Belief in G-d. This is the positive
commandment to believe in the existence of Hashem as the only G-d.”

20:4 You shall not make yourself a carved image nor any likeness of that which is in the heavens above on the earth below or on the water beneath the earth. 20:5 You shall not prostrate yourself to them nor worship them, for I am HASHEM, your G-d – a jealous G-d, Who visits the sin of the fathers upon children* to the third and fourth generations, for My enemies; 20:6 but Who shows kindness for thousands [of generations] to those who love Me and observe My commandments.
“20:3-6. Second Commandment: Prohibition of Idolatry. This
commandment compromises four negative injunctions: (1) It is forbidden to
believe in idols; (2) it is forbidden to make or posses them; (3) it is forbidden to
worship them through any of the four forms of Divine service [prostration,
slaughter, offering upon an alter; libations of wine or other liquids upon an altar];
and (4) it is forbidden to worship an idol by a means that is unique to it.

20:5. Children are punished only if they adopt and carry on the sinful legacy
of their parents; or if it was in their power to protest, but they acquiesced to the
life-style that was shown them.” (Sanhedrin 27b)

20:7 You shall not take the Name of HASHEM, your G-d, in vain,* for HASHEM will not absolve anyone who takes His Name in vain.
“20:7. Third Commandment: Prohibition of vain oaths. Just as it is
forbidden to show comtempt for G-d by making an idol, so it is forbidden to
disgrace His Name by using it for no valid purpose.”

20:8 Remember the Sabbath day* to sanctify it. 20:9 Six days shall you work* and accomplish all your work; 20:10 but the seventh day is Sabbath to HASHEM, your G-d; you shall not do any work – you, your son, your daughter, your slave, your maidservant, your animal, and your convert within your gates – 20:11 for in six days HASHEM made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and he rested on the seventh day. Therefore, HASHEM blessed the Sabbathday and sanctified it.
“20:8-11. Fourth Commandment: The Sabbath. This day serves as a
constant reminder that G-d is the Creator, Who created for six days and rested on
the seventh. Sabbath observance bears testimony to this concept.

20:9-10. The commandment of the Sabbath includes not only deed, but
attitude, for when the Sabbath arrives, one should feel all his work is finished,
even though his desk or workbench is still piled high. Six days shall you work
and accomplish all your work means that no matter what is still left to be done,
one should feel as much at ease as if everything was finished (Rashi).”

20:12 Honor your father and your mother,* so that your days will be lengthened upon the land that HASHEM, your G-d, gives you.
“20:12. Fifth Commandment: Honoring parents. The Ten Commandments
are inscribed on two tablets, five on each. The first tablet contains laws regarding
Man's relationship with G-d while the second refers to relationships among
people. This casts a revealing light on the significance G-d attaches to the honor
he wants us to show parents. When people honor their parents, G-d regards it as if
they honor Him.”

20:13 You shall not kill;* you shall not commit adultery;* you shall not steal;* you shall not bear false witness against your fellow.*
“20:13. Sixth Commandment: Prohibition against murder. Mechilta
notes that the first commandment of the second tablet corresponds to the first of
of the other one, faith in G-d. Someone with true belief in G-d as the Creator and
Sustainer of human life will not commit murder.

Seventh Commandment: Prohibition against adultery. By definition, this
term refers only to cohabitation with a married woman, which is a capital offense.
It is parallel to the second commandment, which forbids idolatry, for someone
who betrays the marital relationship can be expected to betray G-d. (Mechilta
)

Eighth Commandment: Prohibition against kidnapping. In this prohibition,
“stealing” refers to kidnapping. A kidnapper who forces his victim to work for
him and then sells him into slavery is liable to the death penalty (Sanhedrin
86a). The commandment against ordinary theft is found in Leviticus 19:11.
Mechilta compares stealing to the third commandment because one who
steals may well seek to cover his tracks by swearing falsely.

Ninth Commandment: Prohibition aginst bearing false witness. In addition
to its literally meaning, this passage prohibits gossip and slander (Sforno).

20:14 You shall not covet* your fellow's house. You shall not covet your fellow's wife, his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his donkey, nor anything that belongs to your fellow.
“20:14. Tenth Commandment: Prohibition against coveting. R' Hirsch
notes that this last commandment is one that only a Divine Lawgiver could
have degreed. A mortal ruler can legislate against murder and theft, but only G-d
can demand that people sanctify their thoughts and attitudes to the point where
they purge themselves of such natural tendencies as jealousy and covetousness."

Whew! That took awhile to type up. I personally don't hold with all of their interpretations myself, so to say it's a definitive interpretation is not appropriate. Even in this TANACH, when you read the repeat of the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy 5:6-18, although the actual commandments are in the same order, the wording is different in the commandments themselves. Which could probably lead to a whole second set of commentary. But this TANACH refers back to the commentary I quoted above. Interesting.

[dlbpharmd]

These commandments, referred to as the Noahic or Noahide commandments, are inferred from Genesis Ch. 9, and are as follows: 1) to establish courts of justice; 2) not to commit blasphemy; 3) not to commit idolatry; 4) not to commit incest and adultery; 5) not to commit bloodshed; 6) not to commit robbery; and 7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal.

I find it ironic that #7 is considered "Noahic" rules since according to Genesis God gave the animals to Noah and his family after the Flood for consumption as food. Why must non-Jews conform to a non-meat diet?

[Menolly]

These commandments, referred to as the Noahic or Noahide commandments, are inferred from Genesis Ch. 9, and are as follows: 1) to establish courts of justice; 2) not to commit blasphemy; 3) not to commit idolatry; 4) not to commit incest and adultery; 5) not to commit bloodshed; 6) not to commit robbery; and 7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal.

I find it ironic that #7 is considered "Noahic" rules since according to Genesis God gave the animals to Noah and his family after the Flood for consumption as food. Why must non-Jews conform to a non-meat diet?

dl, I think you're misreading the law. It says "from a living animal', i.e., one which has not been slaughtered yet. I think nearly anyone would find it somewhat barbaric to cut meat off an animal that is alive at the time you are harvesting the meat. But it is perfectly allowable to eat meat from an animal butchered after slaughter.

[dlbpharmd]

OH! You're absolutely correct, my apologies.

[Menolly]

No need to apologize. Although not Jewish Law, the Noahide Laws are close enough to be confusing in their wordage.

While I am new to sudying aspects of Judaism, having grown up on the Rabbi David Small mysteries, with his Talmudic pilpul and explantion of Jewish Law in the books, I know not to expect a Jewish Law to mean what I think it may mean without reading commentaries or listening to sermons regarding it.

[Plissken]

I really can't tell you how much I appreciate the work you put in to answer my question, Mennoly. Many thanks.

[Avatar]

Exodus 20:2 I am HASHEM, your G-d, Who has taken you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery.
20:1-14. "When the Holy One, Blessed is He, presented the Torah at Sinai,
not a bird chirped, not a fowl flew, not an ox lowed, not an angel ascended, not a
seraph proclaimed kadosh, Holy. The sea did not roll and no creature made
a sound. All of the vast universe was silent and mute. It was then that the Voice
went forth and proclaimed, I am HASHEM, your G-d!" (Shemos Rabbah 29:9)

20:3 You shall not recognize the g-ds of others in My presence.
“20:2. First Commandment: Belief in G-d. This is the positive
commandment to believe in the existence of Hashem as the only G-d.”

20:4 You shall not make yourself a carved image nor any likeness of that which is in the heavens above on the earth below or on the water beneath the earth. 20:5 You shall not prostrate yourself to them nor worship them, for I am HASHEM, your G-d – a jealous G-d, Who visits the sin of the fathers upon children* to the third and fourth generations, for My enemies; 20:6 but Who shows kindness for thousands [of generations] to those who love Me and observe My commandments.

Fascinating post Menolly. I'm interested to note though, that the literal words say nothing about there being no other gods. Instead, it says that they shall not recognise other gods in his presence, and that he is a jealous god, in other words, one who demands total attention from his worshippers. Interesting implications, don't you think?

--A

[Plissken]

I also think that this one is interesting, given how it's used in Christian religions -

Seventh Commandment: Prohibition against adultery. By definition, this
term refers only to cohabitation with a married woman, which is a capital offense.
It is parallel to the second commandment, which forbids idolatry, for someone
who betrays the marital relationship can be expected to betray G-d.

[Menolly]

I really can't tell you how much I appreciate the work you put in to answer my question, Mennoly. Many thanks.

YVW!

:::apologizing in advance for 'editing' others quotes to fit my own posting 'rules.'

Fascinating post Menolly. I'm interested to note though, that the literal words say nothing about there being no other g-ds. Instead, it says that they shall not recognise other g-ds in his presence, and that he is a jealous g-d, in other words, one who demands total attention from his worshippers. Interesting implications, don't you think?

Oh, darn. Now I wish I had my own copy of the Hertz Pentateuch and HafTorah that we use in services. We recently read the Torah portion about Balak and Balaam, and in the commentary I read during the Torah chanting I read something to the affect that Balaam was a powerful prophet, diviner and sorceror of his people, who's dieties gave him his power. But that HaShem turned his curses into blessings to show that He is L-rd G-d over all. Or something to that affect.

So, it is my personal interpretation that the Ten Commandments are not saying there aren't other dieties out there, and powerful ones at that, but that we are commanded to worship HaShem and only HaShem. But then, my intrigue with the philosophy of Jewitchery probably comes into play here, and you won't find that POV promoted among many Torah observant Jews...

I also think that this one is interesting, given how it's used in Chr-stian religions -

Seventh Commandment: Prohibition against adultery. By definition, this
term refers only to cohabitation with a married woman, which is a capital offense.
It is parallel to the second commandment, which forbids idolatry, for someone
who betrays the marital relationship can be expected to betray G-d.

Well...as I said earlier, Jews believe Jewish law applies only to Jews, so I won't go into that aspect here.

[Menolly]

Just an FYI. We're driving Beorn to spend a week with his grandfather, and probably won't be back until late tomorrow night. I'll be AFK the entire time.

If anyone posts more questions, I hope to be able to get to you on Friday. Have a good couple of days everyone!

[Avatar]

Hope you have a nice break.

While I accept that such laws are not applicable to anybody not following a particular religion, (as it should be), the reason I think it of interest is in that so much of christian "law" is founded on the Judaic approach.

I always remember that when christianity was brought to Ireland, the christian god was ferred to, (for a long time) as the new god.

--A

[Menolly]

:::nodding:::

My only exposure to that is the Sister Fidelma novels, but it sounds familiar.

[Kinslaughterer]

Thanks for answering questions; we can all use a little more understanding...

In regards to a thread in the 'Tank, I was wondering what is the Jewish position on the gay & lesbian issue? (When I say "issue", I mean how does modern Judaism regard them)