As fantasy readers, I'd suppose each of us have some longing for a different world. I, for one, have always envied the citizens of the Land, and how charmed their existence must have been after TPTP.
Personally, if I could live during another time, I'd try being a Roman citizen during the Pax Romana. I once read somewhere (I think it was a Buddhist philosophy) that "desire creates suffering". When I look around me, I see myself surrounded--often inundated--with material objects of the modern-day. It's hard to put a finger on it, but sometimes it just doesn't feel right. Yeah, progressive scan, video games, and all those other gadgets are great, but sometimes they just seem to "cloud" me. I often feel like life would be "cleaner" and more "pure" were I to just strip all those amenities away and live a Spartan lifestyle. The Pax Romana, a time of relative security during Rome's past, would provide that in spades, I think.
Of course, a little voice in me thinks, "How could one live without today's technology?" And I'm sure the initial switch to the Pax Romana would hard, but, after being there for a while and seeing every other Roman citizen living that way, I think I'd slowly but surely be assimilated. Society has a funny way of making you accept drastic changes. Social groups can practically make you forget your "previous life".
But anyway, rambling aside. Yeah, I wouldn't mind dropping everything--a bit of permanent escapism as a Roman citizen. Ah, the Baths of Diocletian are calling me now! I hear they had libraries right by the baths, too!
Ever long for simpler times?
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Worm of Despite
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bossk
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Yeah, I really miss those simpler days when the infant mortality rate was over 50% and a broken leg could kill you. I'm sure the ladies REALLY long for a time when they were considered their husband's property.
I'm just kidding, of course. A lot of past history sounds wonderful and interesting, but I think we often whitewash over the parts we don't want to think about. A lot of appalling shit went down back then, just as it does now.
I would love the ultimate fantasy, though. To be able to time-travel so you could LEAVE when the going got tough.
I've always wished I could stand there and watch my ancestors come ashore in America, and see the generations and know what made them come here, what made them move from the coast, just how we ended up where we are today over the course of 200-plus years.
I'm just kidding, of course. A lot of past history sounds wonderful and interesting, but I think we often whitewash over the parts we don't want to think about. A lot of appalling shit went down back then, just as it does now.
I would love the ultimate fantasy, though. To be able to time-travel so you could LEAVE when the going got tough.
I've always wished I could stand there and watch my ancestors come ashore in America, and see the generations and know what made them come here, what made them move from the coast, just how we ended up where we are today over the course of 200-plus years.
Last edited by bossk on Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Misanthropes of the world, unite!
1870s-1880s. I'd love to have lived in the old West. Show up at the OK Corral armed to the teeth, punch dogies, get really leathery skin.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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[Syl]
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Not really. I've lived in the sticks, miles away from any kind of civilization, very few modern ameneties. I've even lived for a couple months without running water or electricity. It's not something I'm dying to go back to.
Occasionally, I like to pack everything up and go out hiking/camping in the middle of nowhere, but you'll never see me spending a year or more on the Appalachian or Sierra Nevada trails, either. Three things I always remember: I hate flies and mosquitos, I like air conditioning, and books get really heavy. A clear night and a campfire can make me forget a lot, but not forever.
<edit>But if you mean going back in time and ruling a bunch of primitive screwheads (or turning the clock forward on mankind by several hundred centuries in my more altruous moments) with my ungodly knowledge, then, yes; all the time.
Occasionally, I like to pack everything up and go out hiking/camping in the middle of nowhere, but you'll never see me spending a year or more on the Appalachian or Sierra Nevada trails, either. Three things I always remember: I hate flies and mosquitos, I like air conditioning, and books get really heavy. A clear night and a campfire can make me forget a lot, but not forever.
<edit>But if you mean going back in time and ruling a bunch of primitive screwheads (or turning the clock forward on mankind by several hundred centuries in my more altruous moments) with my ungodly knowledge, then, yes; all the time.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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High Lord Tolkien
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I'll take today, thanks.
Actually I'd take the time period when there's a cure for Diabeties, Cancer.......
Do you have any idea what the bathroom conditions were in Rome?
There's NO latin word for "Charmin" toilet paper, I tell you!
Good luck with your next dental cavity too.
Oh, and if you're over 40 you're a seinor citizen.
Sorry, that's all I think of when I read stories about going back in time.
It would be wonderful for a day trip but I wouldn't want to live there.
I'd much prefer watching them on a DVD.
Right now is the greatest time in human history, imho.
The past 50 years alone is astounding.
American's played GOLF on the MOON.
Let me say that again, American's played GOLF on the MOON!
How unbelievable is that?
Everytime I look at the moon I think we sent people there!
We drove cars there, played golf there, drank Tang there.
The only time that would really interst me in visiting for a long length of time would be the American Constitutional Convention period.
I'd love to have access to the whole process and hear what was said behind closed doors.
Not to uncover any secrets or scandels but to just get the whole feel for it.
Plus I think the clothes are pretty cool looking.
(there was a mix of different styles)
Actually I'd take the time period when there's a cure for Diabeties, Cancer.......
Do you have any idea what the bathroom conditions were in Rome?
There's NO latin word for "Charmin" toilet paper, I tell you!
Good luck with your next dental cavity too.
Oh, and if you're over 40 you're a seinor citizen.
Sorry, that's all I think of when I read stories about going back in time.
It would be wonderful for a day trip but I wouldn't want to live there.
I'd much prefer watching them on a DVD.
Right now is the greatest time in human history, imho.
The past 50 years alone is astounding.
American's played GOLF on the MOON.
Let me say that again, American's played GOLF on the MOON!
How unbelievable is that?
Everytime I look at the moon I think we sent people there!
We drove cars there, played golf there, drank Tang there.
The only time that would really interst me in visiting for a long length of time would be the American Constitutional Convention period.
I'd love to have access to the whole process and hear what was said behind closed doors.
Not to uncover any secrets or scandels but to just get the whole feel for it.
Plus I think the clothes are pretty cool looking.
(there was a mix of different styles)
https://thoolah.blogspot.com/
[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
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Worm of Despite
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I feel the technological shortcomings of the Pax Romana compared to now are a negligible factor. Mind you, that statement applies only if one truly intends on switching to ancient Rome for the rest of their lives. But I digress; here is my argument:
I read a true story once of a rich heiress who was kidnapped. Don't remember all the details, but she was kept inside a closet or some such all day, only to be taken out and beaten and then put back in. Eventually, her captors let her come out to the dinner table and eat with her.
People took her for dead for years, until a security camera showed her aiding her captors during a bank robbery.
My point is that I think living during the Pax Romana would produce a similar change me. Certainly, from an "outside looking in" perspective, we see nothing but downsides and speed bumps. But, I think it's very possible that any one of us, much like that rich woman who was kidnapped, could become altered in such a way that we adapt to ancient Rome--become mentally and physically attuned to it to the point that we no longer give import to our prior existence or even appear to remember it.
And certainly, I am optimistic, daresay hopeful, but I think I fall short of whitewashing (having briefly addressed my own concerns about the downsides of Rome from the outset).
I read a true story once of a rich heiress who was kidnapped. Don't remember all the details, but she was kept inside a closet or some such all day, only to be taken out and beaten and then put back in. Eventually, her captors let her come out to the dinner table and eat with her.
People took her for dead for years, until a security camera showed her aiding her captors during a bank robbery.
My point is that I think living during the Pax Romana would produce a similar change me. Certainly, from an "outside looking in" perspective, we see nothing but downsides and speed bumps. But, I think it's very possible that any one of us, much like that rich woman who was kidnapped, could become altered in such a way that we adapt to ancient Rome--become mentally and physically attuned to it to the point that we no longer give import to our prior existence or even appear to remember it.
And certainly, I am optimistic, daresay hopeful, but I think I fall short of whitewashing (having briefly addressed my own concerns about the downsides of Rome from the outset).
"I support the destruction of the Think-Tank." - Avatar, August 2008
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Lord Mhoram
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Foul,
Pax Romana, eh? Wanna live during the reigns of Caligula or Nero?
Regarding "simpler times," I am of the opinion that the children of every generation feels that those that passed before them had things better than they do. A "grass is always greener" type of thing. I'm fine in the modern world, thanks.
Pax Romana, eh? Wanna live during the reigns of Caligula or Nero?
Regarding "simpler times," I am of the opinion that the children of every generation feels that those that passed before them had things better than they do. A "grass is always greener" type of thing. I'm fine in the modern world, thanks.
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Worm of Despite
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That's Patty Hearst you're thinking of LF.
I would definately miss toilet paper.
I would definately miss toilet paper.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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duchess of malfi
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I'll gladly take today, thank you. 
When my parents were growing up neither had running water or toilets. My father's youngest brother starved to death during the depression. If they didn't grow it or shoot it they didn't eat it. And yeah - no toilet paper. My dad said his family used corn cobs.
Do you know how many of my female ancestors died from either childbirth or as a result of having ten kids in 12 years and their bodies just literally wore out? Can you imagine what hell it must have been to have been a woman with that many kids and have to grow all of your own food as well? And make all of your family's clothes?
My mom's family had asthmatics. Unlike myself or my younger son, who usually have our asthma under control thanks to modern antihistamines and inhaled medications, these people suffered. It hurts when you can't breathe!
And lets not even talk about the vile and evil segregation that the South had when my parents grew up.
Or how dirty the air and water were when everyone burned stuff to heat their houses, and when people pooped in one hole in the ground and got their drinking water out of another hole in the ground on the other side of the house. It's no wonder you were old and toothless when you were forty.
The world is certainly no paradise, but it is so much better in just one generation!!!
When my parents were growing up neither had running water or toilets. My father's youngest brother starved to death during the depression. If they didn't grow it or shoot it they didn't eat it. And yeah - no toilet paper. My dad said his family used corn cobs.
Do you know how many of my female ancestors died from either childbirth or as a result of having ten kids in 12 years and their bodies just literally wore out? Can you imagine what hell it must have been to have been a woman with that many kids and have to grow all of your own food as well? And make all of your family's clothes?
My mom's family had asthmatics. Unlike myself or my younger son, who usually have our asthma under control thanks to modern antihistamines and inhaled medications, these people suffered. It hurts when you can't breathe!
And lets not even talk about the vile and evil segregation that the South had when my parents grew up.
Or how dirty the air and water were when everyone burned stuff to heat their houses, and when people pooped in one hole in the ground and got their drinking water out of another hole in the ground on the other side of the house. It's no wonder you were old and toothless when you were forty.
The world is certainly no paradise, but it is so much better in just one generation!!!
Love as thou wilt.
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High Lord Tolkien
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Yeah, Duchess, wasn't childbirth the leading cause of women's death back in the "good old days"? lol
Just for the record, I read once in an Ancient Inventions book that I have that the Romans used a sponge on a stick to "clean up" down there.
So that's not too bad I guess.
Except that they also shared the sponge!
I'd never do the TV show Survivor for this very reason.
No bathrooms.
Just for the record, I read once in an Ancient Inventions book that I have that the Romans used a sponge on a stick to "clean up" down there.
So that's not too bad I guess.
Except that they also shared the sponge!
I'd never do the TV show Survivor for this very reason.
No bathrooms.
https://thoolah.blogspot.com/
[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
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Worm of Despite
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ChoChiyo
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Did anyone see that PBS show--I think it was called "Prairie House"--they put some people onto a stretch of land and gave them cows and stuff and they had to live like pioneers for a period of time?
I only saw one episode, but I thought that would be quite interesting. Other than the lack of indoor plumbing and electricity, it would have been a lot like it was for me growing up on the farm.
I wouldn't mind doing that. I'm sure that--even at my advanced age--I could do better than those whiny crybabies that were on the show.
That's about as far back as I'd be willing to go.
Roman--well, since I'd probably be in the slave class, no thanks.
Heh.
I'd like to hop ahead to the future--after people have been living on the moon for about fifty years. I'd love to do that!
I only saw one episode, but I thought that would be quite interesting. Other than the lack of indoor plumbing and electricity, it would have been a lot like it was for me growing up on the farm.
I wouldn't mind doing that. I'm sure that--even at my advanced age--I could do better than those whiny crybabies that were on the show.
That's about as far back as I'd be willing to go.
Roman--well, since I'd probably be in the slave class, no thanks.
Heh.
I'd like to hop ahead to the future--after people have been living on the moon for about fifty years. I'd love to do that!
Empress Cho hammers the KABC of Evil.
"If Ignorance is Bliss, Ann Coulter must be the happiest woman in the universe!"
Take that, you Varlet!
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onewyteduck
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The childbirth and post-operative mortality rates dropped significantly thanks to Dr. Joseph Lister (which is where the name Listerine comes from!) who insisted that hospital staff wash their hands.......he is considered by many to be the "father" of infection control. He met a lot of resistance, people thought he was a crack pot. After all, we couldn't see germs so therefore, they didn't exist.
Many of us might not be here now if it weren't for him so send him up a thanks with your next prayer!
A little background info if your interested:
web.ukonline.co.uk/b.gardner/Lister.html#op
Many of us might not be here now if it weren't for him so send him up a thanks with your next prayer!
A little background info if your interested:
web.ukonline.co.uk/b.gardner/Lister.html#op
Be kind to your web-footed friends, for a duck may be somebody's mother.
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lurch
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Well I do..
....Every Time i have a keening for the good old days,,and i do, ya know what i do?...i get all my chores done,,solve as many problems as i am able in my life...then I kick back and relax..there ya have it,,The Good Old Days! These are The Good Old Days. Enjoy'em while ya got'em...( place the ad slogan for the worlds largest atheletic shoe comapny here)...MEL
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
pg4 TLD
pg4 TLD
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onewyteduck
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That was the best post by lurch. Ever.
And I agree completely with bossk:
Lord Foul, I can understand you desiring the calm and stability of a time like the Pax Romana, but using the Patty Hearst abduction case to illustrate your points is, shall I say, pretty damn morbid.
I like the here and now just fine (with all its benefits and dangers), and I look forward to the future.
And I agree completely with bossk:
I do like to experience history, but only in a book or a movie or on the History channel--not to relive it in person. I shake my head whenever I hear people who, after seeing a charming period movie, gush about how romantic and innocent that past age was, and how they wish they could live back then. Oh really? What they really mean is that they want to live in the fake, Technicolor, idealized celluloid version of the past.A lot of past history sounds wonderful and interesting, but I think we often whitewash over the parts we don't want to think about. A lot of appalling shit went down back then, just as it does now.
I heard about the show, but I didn't watch it. And sure, a lack of indoor plumbing and electricity might be just minor inconveniences for Hippies like you, Cho (I mean that in jest, heh). However, for a through and through city boy like myself, being deprived of plumbing and electricity for an extended period of time constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, as far as I'm concerned.ChoChiyo wrote:Did anyone see that PBS show--I think it was called "Prairie House"--they put some people onto a stretch of land and gave them cows and stuff and they had to live like pioneers for a period of time?
I only saw one episode, but I thought that would be quite interesting. Other than the lack of indoor plumbing and electricity, it would have been a lot like it was for me growing up on the farm.
Lord Foul, I can understand you desiring the calm and stability of a time like the Pax Romana, but using the Patty Hearst abduction case to illustrate your points is, shall I say, pretty damn morbid.
I like the here and now just fine (with all its benefits and dangers), and I look forward to the future.
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Avatar
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Well said MM and Lurch. I agree. Medical advances alone make it worth it to me. The funny thing is, that it's very much as Lord Mhoram says. Every generation seems to yearn backwards as well. Afterall, Thoreau's Walden was written in the mid-1800's or so, about a return to a simpler life.
That said, Syl's scenario holds some appeal to me, and the whole "money" thing really gets me down, but these are interesting times, and I can't wait to see what the future will bring.
--A
That said, Syl's scenario holds some appeal to me, and the whole "money" thing really gets me down, but these are interesting times, and I can't wait to see what the future will bring.
--A