Well, this happened in my neighborhood, so I do have something to say about it. And I mean this exact thing: Christian skaters/rockers attacked Madison Ohio.
Some starters: There is one adult pastor and two(2) youth pastors, full time. This is a Friends church by the way, and I do appreciate that they are kind people, but I do not approve of some of the methods for recruting....
Let's see....
They had some teachers at the school that were a member of the church, and they passed out these handouts to some kids in middleschool/highschool for dances/concerts, without mentioning anywhere that it was a religious youth group event. They were offering rides from school to the events, and rides home.
So the parents could give permission to their child to attend a christian service...without ever even knowing it.
They built the skate park and the stage... it got pretty spooky. A lot of people I knew started throwing away all their secular cds because a speaker told them that they would be punished by god for listening to those kinds of musics.... it was generally frowned upon to spend too much time with nonchristian friends...
I know this doesn't sound so bad, but they had 2 adults whose JOB it was to convert people ages 13-17.
I mean really. It's like smoking advertisements.
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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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Uhhhh, except Christianity won't stain your teeth, make you stink, or kill you.JemCheeta wrote:I mean really. It's like smoking advertisements.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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They're still burning CD's?! That is just so-o-o-o creepy.
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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Yeah, for real. I'm not saying it's a bad thing necessarily, I'm saying that they're trying to convert the children quietly, behind the parents backs.
I think that if I had children, and someone was trying to do that behind my back, I would be a bit aggitated.
I think that if I had children, and someone was trying to do that behind my back, I would be a bit aggitated.
Start where you are,
use what you have,
do what you can.
use what you have,
do what you can.
When I was a kid, there was a Sunday School bus that came around and just picked up the kids and took them to church. We had to have the parents permission slips signed to be able to go, but looking back at what they told us (implications that we were better than our parents 'cause we were going to church and they weren't, etc.) I wonder if any of the parents would've signed, had they known.
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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Yeah. It's a 'by any means necessary' sort of a deal. Because it's the eternal soul. I mean, I can see where they're coming from, and if I REALLY believed that I might make the same decisions.
Which is why I think that belief is dangerous and should probably be eliminated within the next thousand years.
The by-any-means-necessary thing, not christianity.
Which is why I think that belief is dangerous and should probably be eliminated within the next thousand years.
The by-any-means-necessary thing, not christianity.
Start where you are,
use what you have,
do what you can.
use what you have,
do what you can.
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Avatar
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Oh it's disturbing alright. Still funny, but disturbing. This is how they're out to get you man...Lord Mhoram wrote:Av,
Heh, I know it may be funny, but that really did kind of bother me...
I watched an excellent documentary this weekend, made by a local "comic" actor, from a staunchly Afrikaans family, whose sister converted to Krishna, married a Ghanan and set up a school in a remote village in Ghana. Anyway, one of the things that the Krishna guy said really struck a chord in me:
They were having a little ceremony, passing out food to the villagers, when a christian group sort of interrupted them. Discussing it later, the Krishna said, "Our christian brothers are insecure. They see people being fed and helped, and fear that they will lose members to this "other" religion. (The Krishna's don't proselytise) They say that god is jealous. We say that god cannot be jealous. Everything is his. He has no competitor."
Emphasis mine of course. Interesting, no?
--A
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[Syl]
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Now that's a great idea. We can relieve their consciences and increase our music library at the same time.
Caveat: if you have bad taste in music, be sure to include the original case and artwork.
Caveat: if you have bad taste in music, be sure to include the original case and artwork.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
Just an attempt to "lure" in potential believers. The church leaders don't actually care about the message; Like Avatar stated:
The church leaders know this. So they're pretty much using desperate methods to get people into church.
it's a simple truth that unless christianity starts appealing to the new masses, they're going to start running out of adherents, slowly but steadily.
The church leaders know this. So they're pretty much using desperate methods to get people into church.
Actually, my church doesn't seem any more desparate than it should, and it should have some desperation b/c we're dealing w/serious issues. But I don't see desperation in a group that reaches out to the skating world when most adults, christian or not, have no desire too. It is kinda pathetic that people want christians to be more loving, but when they reach out to a group, its not out of love, but rather a desire to brainwash. I shouldn't say pathetic, but its not surprising.
--Andy
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
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[Syl]
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The world needs a new messiah. Seriously. If Christ brought a new covenant for new times... We could really use someone to set the record straight.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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[Syl]
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If this story would've come out ten years ago, I'd buy it. But do not tell me the world is not reaching out to skaters. The X-Games is huge. Millions of dollars in advertising. And let's talk about Tony Hawk... cereal commercials to video games.
No, they're going to skater crowd because it's trendy, they still harbor "the man's trying to bring us down" mentality, and because it's still a growing trend.
No, they're going to skater crowd because it's trendy, they still harbor "the man's trying to bring us down" mentality, and because it's still a growing trend.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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ur-bane
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More people in the pews/seats/aisles/halfpipe mean more potential contributions when the collection plate is passed around.Darth Revan wrote:Just an attempt to "lure" in potential believers. The church leaders don't actually care about the message; Like Avatar stated:
it's a simple truth that unless christianity starts appealing to the new masses, they're going to start running out of adherents, slowly but steadily.
The church leaders know this. So they're pretty much using desperate methods to get people into church.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want
to test a man's character, give him power.
--Abraham Lincoln
Excerpt from Animal Songs Never Written
"Hey, dad," croaked the vulture, "what are you eating?"
"Carrion, my wayward son."
"Will there be pieces when you are done?"
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Iryssa
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I have to say, I'm a little disappointed with the way people are approaching this here. I mean, I'm seeing a lot of logical fallacies...mostly generalizations.
Absolutely, there are some money-grabbing people out there that use Christianity as a front for getting people to give. There are, however, many God-loving Christians out there who use such ministries as the one this topic was based on to reach people.
Let me explain the motivation behind this (in the latter scenario):
Christians believe that no one may come to the Father but through Christ (translation: only those who profess Jesus as their Lord and live like it get to heaven).
It is our duty to spread the word of God: that through Christ's sacrifice, anyone who asks God to save them will be saved.
Many people think that church is a drag and won't come. Ministries such as the skateboarding one are an effective way to get the message out there, and at least get people thinking about it. Also, if we can get people to see that we Christians aren't just fun-killers, their perspective on God might also change.
The motivation is NOT to brainwash people into giving us more money (or to brainwash them at all)! The motivation is a love for people, and a desire to see them accept Christ...and no, I don't believe in coercing someone to it. Read my signature, and you'll see why I think that's a stupid thing to do.
THAT is the perspective of a Believer.
Absolutely, there are some money-grabbing people out there that use Christianity as a front for getting people to give. There are, however, many God-loving Christians out there who use such ministries as the one this topic was based on to reach people.
Let me explain the motivation behind this (in the latter scenario):
Christians believe that no one may come to the Father but through Christ (translation: only those who profess Jesus as their Lord and live like it get to heaven).
It is our duty to spread the word of God: that through Christ's sacrifice, anyone who asks God to save them will be saved.
Many people think that church is a drag and won't come. Ministries such as the skateboarding one are an effective way to get the message out there, and at least get people thinking about it. Also, if we can get people to see that we Christians aren't just fun-killers, their perspective on God might also change.
The motivation is NOT to brainwash people into giving us more money (or to brainwash them at all)! The motivation is a love for people, and a desire to see them accept Christ...and no, I don't believe in coercing someone to it. Read my signature, and you'll see why I think that's a stupid thing to do.
THAT is the perspective of a Believer.
"A choice made freely is stronger than one compelled"
- Stephen R. Donaldson's The Wounded Land
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Nice to see you around again Iryssa, and a good post. I'm not sure that we can count generalisation under the heading of logical fallacy though.
Sure, it goes without saying, (or should) that not every, (and perhaps not even most), Christians fall into those generalisations, but because they're being made, it should be clear that they relate to the perception by others.
I certainly think that trying to change those perceptions would be a benefit to christianity, but only for them. Perhaps I'm just too cynical. But I keep thinking about the quote by LM about "luring" them in.
--A
Sure, it goes without saying, (or should) that not every, (and perhaps not even most), Christians fall into those generalisations, but because they're being made, it should be clear that they relate to the perception by others.
I certainly think that trying to change those perceptions would be a benefit to christianity, but only for them. Perhaps I'm just too cynical. But I keep thinking about the quote by LM about "luring" them in.
--A
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Iryssa
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Okay, you're right that "generalization" is not a logical fallacy..."Hasty Generalization" is a category of logical fallacies, not a fallacy in itself. My apologies.
On the subject of perceptions...yes, I can see that such statements do pertain to the perceptions of others.
Personally, I do not try to change the way people perceive Christians for my benefit or the benefit of Christianity itself, but for the benefit of others (non-Christians). While people see Christianity as a whole as an organization of backwards brainwashers, they're not very likely to want to hear the Gospel, and that's not something I would want...for THEIR sake, not mine.
Heh, "luring" people in. Makes it sound like something awful awaits people if they come to Christ. I can assure you that it is quite the opposite.
On the subject of perceptions...yes, I can see that such statements do pertain to the perceptions of others.
Personally, I do not try to change the way people perceive Christians for my benefit or the benefit of Christianity itself, but for the benefit of others (non-Christians). While people see Christianity as a whole as an organization of backwards brainwashers, they're not very likely to want to hear the Gospel, and that's not something I would want...for THEIR sake, not mine.
Heh, "luring" people in. Makes it sound like something awful awaits people if they come to Christ. I can assure you that it is quite the opposite.
Last edited by Iryssa on Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
"A choice made freely is stronger than one compelled"
- Stephen R. Donaldson's The Wounded Land
https://www.xanga.com/Iryssa
- Stephen R. Donaldson's The Wounded Land
https://www.xanga.com/Iryssa